AWACS - Guided Missles?

[TeaAndScones]

Someone may or may not have proposed this, and to the trained aviation expert, possibly very silly, but this just popped into my head today while on AC5 listening to AWACS Thunderhead droning on. :P

 

Say, the missile is launched by a Fighter Jet, but the missile's guidance system and launch Aircrafts radar screen is slaved to the local AWACS' radar.  Given that the fuel/propulsion allows these ranges, and considering that AWACS radars are usually more powerful than Fighters radars, this could allow for missile launches hundreds of miles greater in range than a lot of other long-range AA missiles.

 

I'm probably missing something here that would make this impossible, but please comment on what you think. :)

[CowboyTodd41]

The data-linking would be a nightmare.

[macelena]

Wouldn´t it be technically a command guided missile?

[CowboyTodd41]

Well now that I think about it, I'm pretty the Soviets used Bears to send mid-course corrections to cruise missiles.

[macelena]

It could be doable, especially with current technology, but i still think it would take a terminal guidance system to prevent lag from botching the interception and pretty good ECCM. Besides a hell lot of troubleshooting i guess the weapon´s smart guys should fix.

 

 

Besides that, while all my experience on that issue comes from playing SF2NA, couldn´t you shoot AIM-54s against targets spotted by AWACS with a fire solution based on the information and parameters that the datalink provides to your fire control computers without your own radar? Maybe somebody with knowledge about Tomcats and related staff could tell better than i do.

[Stick]

Don't they do this via satellite now?

[CowboyTodd41]

No, the Tomcats could data-link to the E-2's and eventually, other Tomcats, to share battlespace information. But the only way for the Phoenix to get course updates was from the launching aircraft.

[B52STRATO]

Well now that I think about it, I'm pretty the Soviets used Bears to send mid-course corrections to cruise missiles.

You're right. The Soviet (partly) innovated with the Bear-D/SS-N-12 Sandbox tandem and data sharing between missiles, flying in formation.

[JediMaster]

I think the major requirement would be the launching fighter would need to be between the AWACS and the target.

 

IE: AWACS ----------> Fighter -------------> Missile ------------> Target

If the missile is not launched with the AWACS behind it, and it's using reflected energy, it may not pick it up.

 

Now command guidance is certainly a different matter, but then the problem is codes. If the AWACS doesn't have the proper link to the missile, it will just go wild.

 

However, probably the major reason this isn't done is simply that AWACS need a HAVCAP, they aren't the tip of the spear. You want your AWACS in the rear, not close enough to the threat to send command data to a fired missile (which I'm guessing has less range than the radar itself, but I could be wrong). If the enemy has a longer range missile than you he could be firing on the AWACS before you get him.

[Atreides]

Well now that I think about it, I'm pretty the Soviets used Bears to send mid-course corrections to cruise missiles.

Yeah the Bear D TU-95 RT.  Its I-band search radar located in the former weapons bay. The search radar provided mid-course missile guidance, acquiring targets for ship-, submarine- and air-launched missiles

[MAKO69]

I think the major requirement would be the launching fighter would need to be between the AWACS and the target.

 

IE: AWACS ----------> Fighter -------------> Missile ------------> Target

If the missile is not launched with the AWACS behind it, and it's using reflected energy, it may not pick it up.

 

Now command guidance is certainly a different matter, but then the problem is codes. If the AWACS doesn't have the proper link to the missile, it will just go wild.

 

However, probably the major reason this isn't done is simply that AWACS need a HAVCAP, they aren't the tip of the spear. You want your AWACS in the rear, not close enough to the threat to send command data to a fired missile (which I'm guessing has less range than the radar itself, but I could be wrong). If the enemy has a longer range missile than you he could be firing on the AWACS before you get him.

He's right AWACS see the big picture with radar ranging depending on the platform  250-400+ miles. They see the known or unknown target aircraft. AWACS vector the friendly planes which I would say on average have about a 60-80 mile radar range, to the area of where the bad guys are. The fighters then use their electronic suits to figure out if they are hostile or not. If the unknown planes are hostile then they would be dealt with appropriately, if time of war shot down if encroaching airspace asked to leave and then escalated from there.

 

The RAF's British Aerospace Nimrod AEW had air to air missiles but those were the short range AIM-9 Sidewinder family, those would have been the woops a few bad guys got through missiles, good luck Nimrod guys. Some P-3s in some other air arms are able to carry Sidewinders, but no long distance stuff.

[dast24]

if i remember correctly the Mig-29 has this possibility. it can fire R-27 alamo´s that are then guided in by GCI so the mig-29 do not have to activate the radar(think of it like a flying sam site)

[Jug]

SAC's idea at the end of it's life as an Air Force command, was to use large capacity launchers to toss many cruise missiles on a target.  The idea was to initialize the target location using GPS coordinates, launch the cruise missile (start the motor, get headed toward the target, and link up with the GPS system for guidance), and guide the missile around terrain and high threat areas to the target.  Look at the multiple cruise missile launchers on the later versions of the B-52.  Think about a C-5 or several C-5s!!!  Remember that 80% of the capacity of the GPS satellite system is reserved for US military use.  Talk about saturation effect.............

Edited October 1, 2013 by Jug

[JediMaster]

I once read a book which postulated they could load a ton of Slammers on a B-1B (because the Bone's radar is a derivative of the F-16's) and use it to launch a barrage of AAMs at incoming fighter waves. It was good for a laugh, but I can't see it working operationally.

[MigBuster]

The B-1R stars in Dogfights of the Future (History Channel ) in a hypothetical scenario launching loads of AIM-120s as you say

 

Never mind the B-1 can still be used to carry the rather large missile with 100s miles range.