+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545 Posted February 4, 2014 Mh, realy cool video, but that plane looks like it could be outmanouvered with an old C-160D Transall. Same rear visibility as my Shoebox! None... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted February 5, 2014 Mh, realy cool video, but that plane looks like it could be outmanouvered with an old C-160D Transall. Same rear visibility as my Shoebox! None... You do realize that is moot considering the pilot can see through the aircraft in all directions? FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545 Posted February 5, 2014 FC I know this system, but it will not safe him in a dogfight, you know it as a pilot.. you need to "see", not read instruments in such situations. But its only an expensive bombtruck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted February 5, 2014 You don't understand the system, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) mh ok maybe there is something I dont know as much as I need it, that`s possible Edited February 5, 2014 by 76.IAP-Blackbird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Spillone104 553 Posted February 5, 2014 High Alpha and spin recovery. The discovery of hot water... interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545 Posted February 5, 2014 On a new plane "Yes" it is ... Only the F-35 isn`t that much impressive, to expansive for a bombtruck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted February 5, 2014 It's not designed to dogfight or they would've built it differently. It's designed to be able to take out the enemy without having to get in a dogfight. As for bomb truck, it's a lot less expensive than the B-2, and that's all the B-2 is. Same with the B-1B and the B-52. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted February 5, 2014 The spin looks kind of boring, compared with footage of spin-testing of 3rd generation fighters. There are videos about the Mirage III and Mirage F.1 available on youtube. Especially the F.1 looks very interesting and takes "yawing-entry" to a whole new level Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallenphoenix1986 603 Posted February 5, 2014 This just occurred to me, been reading a lot recently about people slatting the F-35 for rear view... generally the same guys that praise the Crusader for being the be all and end all in naval dogfighters, try lookig over your shoulder in an F-8... Craig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,864 Posted February 5, 2014 The spin looks kind of boring, compared with footage of spin-testing of 3rd generation fighters. There are videos about the Mirage III and Mirage F.1 available on youtube. Especially the F.1 looks very interesting and takes "yawing-entry" to a whole new level They are properly out of control though by the looks of things. As I understand it here they are just switching off the limits on the FLCS using a 'paddle' switch and then pressing the right or left rudder pedal to induce a controlled spin. This just occurred to me, been reading a lot recently about people slatting the F-35 for rear view... generally the same guys that praise the Crusader for being the be all and end all in naval dogfighters, try lookig over your shoulder in an F-8... Craig Pretty much all 3rd gens have that issue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted February 5, 2014 All that is happening here is validating the computer model...and how quickly the computers can get out of a situation. The fact that the F-35C can stay relatively stable even outside the envelope is note worthy. Also, something no one mentioned, is the shot where the F-35C is in a sustained negative 40-45 degree AOA flight. That's extremely impressive for an aircraft with no thrust vectoring. This more than likely means the AOA envelope is going to be very large. And realistically, the F-35 series is not an air superiority fighter...it is meant as a bomb truck, with some air to air capability. Just like an F-16. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted February 5, 2014 That's funny since the F-16 was designed as a pure air superiority day fighter. But aside, the F-35 is the most advanced warplane ever built. It is an order of magnitude more capable than the F-22. A pilot flying an F-35 will be able to see every threat 360 degrees around his plane out to as long a range as there are other units to network. And with a full internal load of HAOB missiles and bombs it is still as maneuverable as a clean F-16. But it's just an expensive bombtruck that can't dogfight worth a damn. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,864 Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Yeah the F-16 design is as a pure visual dogfighter only - but the USAF wanted it A-G from almost the off - political reasons given (Same for why it didn't carry the AIM-7 till 10 years later) Technically the F-16C Block 40/50 were redesigned internally to meet the USAF requirement to be even more A-G and the F-35A is usually compared with the B50 ( on paper they have comparable TW & WL figures). Edited February 5, 2014 by MigBuster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted February 6, 2014 Also, something no one mentioned, is the shot where the F-35C is in a sustained negative 40-45 degree AOA flight. That's extremely impressive for an aircraft with no thrust vectoring. This more than likely means the AOA envelope is going to be very large. It's kind of impressive, yes. But given the huge amount of thrust and very large tail-feathers, it's not really surprising. Also, the steady-state AoA is not so much a challenge as transient (dynamic) AoA and the associated lateral stability issues. The air-intakes are probably creating a pretty useful amount of vortex-lift. The interesting question here is: how large is the stability-margin at these AoA. If it isn't that much, the high AoA won't be of any practical use. We'll see, how it all works out in the end, when the -1 and NATOPS are written. BTW: F-18s also had no difficulties with those angles of attack and yaw-rates (after some innitial snags were fixed) - the inverted AoA-figures are probably only negated by the LEX blocking the air-intakes. And with a full internal load of HAOB missiles and bombs it is still as maneuverable as a clean F-16. We'll see, if that works out in the end. Even with all those whistles and bells, it all comes down to simple physics at the bottom line, and brochures are often just that little bit shinier than the paper they're printed on... Technically the F-16C Block 40/50 were redesigned internally to meet the USAF requirement to be even more A-G and the F-35A is usually compared with the B50 ( on paper they have comparable TW & WL figures). The F-16 is limited to a relatively conservative 25° AoA. That helps with sustaining energy - at least that's how the story goes that I heard. Maybe there was a stability issue and they had to limit AoA in order to stay out of Trouble-Town (eg. as with the Eurofighter). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted February 6, 2014 The difference with the 35 is the engine is very powerful. Granted the weight is higher, but the engine is more advanced and so powerful that it enables the plane to get out of what would previously be considered a bad E state with ease. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted February 6, 2014 We'll see, if that works out in the end. Even with all those whistles and bells, it all comes down to simple physics at the bottom line, and brochures are often just that little bit shinier than the paper they're printed on... Actual testing has shown that to be the case, so I'm not sure where you get the idea it's from some sales brochure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,864 Posted February 6, 2014 The F-16 is limited to a relatively conservative 25° AoA. That helps with sustaining energy - at least that's how the story goes that I heard. Maybe there was a stability issue and they had to limit AoA in order to stay out of Trouble-Town (eg. as with the Eurofighter). That's pretty much what John Will has stated on f-16net (possibly why they limited the F-14D to 37 degrees also) - not sure what they really affected. There was an F-16 VISTA with Thrust Vectoring nozzle that demonstrated 100+ degrees AOA and could do the slow controlled spin and cobra type stunts - should be a vid on You tube. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
