ROF, FE2, or WOFF? (and a question or 2 about FE2)

[shoresroad 2]

Ok, moved the Tuma terrains and now they are working.  Had to add the Alternative Solid Objects Alpha files to get the structures to display correctly but now the Tuma terrains look great and I've got a mod working so hopefully will be easier from here out.

 

Thanks for your patience in explaining this...I was starting to feel thick as a brick...lol

[shoresroad 2]

Hi Panama Red,

 

I just installed your Realistic Sky Mod for First Eagles 2 and what a wonderful improvement!

 

Thanks, Sky High, for the recomendations, as with my first two mods being Jan Tuma's terrains and Panama Red's Realistic Sky it is a quantum leap in appearance! 

 

33Lima, now I understand your second install instructions for when I add Italy...it makes sense to me how it works and why to do it.  Thank you!

 

Cheers!

[shoresroad 2]

"...though I had to edit the setting DetailMeshSize - increasing it to 22, it's in FirstEagles2/Flight/Flightengine.ini - to avoid objects like the buildings in towns having somewhat too close a draw distance, now they are drawn far away."

 

Thanks, 33Lima...got it.

 

This was a test, right?  Had to download the Third Wire cat extractor, then had to find FlightEngine.ini hiding in FlightData.cat :o)

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions but didn't want you guys to think you were wasting your time on me...lol

 

All the input from everyone has been appreciated!

[shoresroad 2]

Ok, all mods attempted are working so far, so I think I've got the basics down.

 

New question, and if I should be posting these somewhere else or start a new thread please let me know:

 

My AI wingman are buzzing around behind me like bees.  Any way to get them to settle down and fly in formation.  I see different formation types in the Formation.ini file, but don't see any keyboard commands or mission commands in my campaign to set a formation for my flight.

 

Thanks!

[Panama Red 22]

If you start a new post asking new specific questions, you are probably more likely to have other people answer your questions than if somebody has to read all the way to the bottom of this thread.

 

Part of the "buzzing" around you is written into the AI routine of each plane, so until you move up to that step, you may have to live with that for awhile.  Different formations will help but not completely eliminate this problem, try them and see how you like them. After all, like I said way up the thread, one of the strengths of FE/FE2 is that you can mod "almost" everything once you figure it out.

 

And congratulations, you are now on the way to an enjoyable FE2 career. 

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

My AI wingman are buzzing around behind me like bees.  Any way to get them to settle down and fly in formation.  I see different formation types in the Formation.ini file, but don't see any keyboard commands or mission commands in my campaign to set a formation for my flight.

 

The planes will fly in pretty good formation until enemy planes come into range or AA starts firing, then everyone starts to take evasive maneuvers, flying in zig zags - thats probably the buzzing around you're seeing.

[+quack74 329]

Try this for the AI. It seems to work for most of my planes. Overwrite the AI parameter in any aircrafts' DATA.ini you want to change. Back up the original settings incase  you don't like it.

 

[AIData]
AileronDeltaRoll=1.1
AileronRollRate=-0.9
ElevatorDeltaPitch=2.0
ElevatorPitchRate=-0.10
ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.14
ThrottleVelocity=-0.05
MaxPitchForAltitude=15.0
MinPitchForAltitude=-10.0
PitchForThrottle=0.005
PitchForAltitude=0.00025
PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.005
RollForHeading=10.0
RollForHeadingRate=-0.03
MinRollHeading=5.0
MaxRollForHeading=30.0
PitchForRoll=0.36
FormationSpeedForPosition=20.0
FormationSpeedForRate=2.0
GunnerFireChance=80
GunnerFireTime=2.5
GunnerAimOffset=0.0050
MaxRollCombat=60.0
MaxPitchCombat=45.0
MaxRollFormation=5.0
FormationRollForPosition=0.1
FormationRollForVelocity=0.01
RollForGunAttack=1.0
RollForGunAttackRate=-0.1
RudderForGunAttack=5.0
RudderForHeading=4.0
RudderForYawRate=-1.2
RudderForSideslip=3.8
TakeOffRotationAngle=15.0
MinAIQuality=Regular

[33LIMA 972]

IIRC the weaving about used to be worse, but a patch to FE(1) adopted a user fix which reduced it. I often 'warp' (Alt+N, 'next encounter) to save time on longer patrols and they seem to be settled when you come out, but start weaving again after course changes. Haven't tried Quack's mod. I just put up with the weaving, not least as the formation-keeping in FE/FE2 is still better than in RoF and much, much better than WOFF.

 

Sorry I forgot about the cat extractor, it's been a long time, one of those things you do early on then likely never need to do again...provided you remember to zip and copy to DVD your complete mods folder when you get your basic setup settled, then again once you've d'led and installed all the planes, campaigns etc you want for a while, so you can recover easily without having to re-install and tweak everything you spent ages doing first time...including remembering which ones needed the feline remover :)

[shoresroad 2]

Thanks guys, I'll try Quack's mod but won't get my pants in a wad over this as I'm still using just the stock plane set with stock AI.  Once i download the planes I'm after and update their AI with the Peter FM's it may change their behavior as Panama suggested.

 

Stephen nailed what I'm seeing right now "evasive maneuvers, flying in zig zags" that starts right after take-off and all the way in route to the action with no sign of a formation at all.  Either that, or they all just downed a bottle of Schnapps prior to take off :o)

 

So I'll just hang tight until I get further along in updating plane FM's.

 

I'll start a new thread for any new questions :o)

 

Cheers!

[shoresroad 2]

Hi Shores

Skyhigh's list is a good base set. If you want to head off to 'sunny Italy' then Gterl's combined terrain and campaign is great. No reason to delay doing that, you can start right there if you wish.

 

 

You might want to create a separate install for Italy: copy + paste FirstEagles2.exe into the folder you installed the sim alongside the original .exe so you get FirstEagles2 (copy).exe. Then remane this copy to something like FE2Italy.exe and run it. Doing this will create a separate 'mod' folder, alongside the sim's original one - like [your user name]/Saved Games/ThirdWire/FE2Italy. Install the mods for Italy there. This isn't strictly necessary, but it will mean that when you add more Western Front-only planes, you won't see these appearing in any single missions you run on your Italian install.

 

Hi 33Lima,

 

Following your thought process here, should I also remove any planes from the FE2 defalut plane set that show up after running my FE2Italy.exe to create my separate Italian "mod" folder that are not on gterl's required aircraft list in his readme file.  For example, the Spad XIII is one of the default planes that is now in my FE2Italy "mods" folder.  Would it start showing up in the wrong places or wrong time period when I start playing the Italian campaign if I don't remove it.  Most, if not all of the FE2 default plane set are not on the list of required aircraft in gterl's readme instructions. 

 

Thanks!

[shoresroad 2]

...not least as the formation-keeping in FE/FE2 is still better than in RoF and much, much better than WOFF.

 

Hi 33Lima,

 

I missed this comment the first time and what I'm seeing right now with my FE2 wingmen is not even close to the nice formations I see in RoF and WOFF.

 

I was looking for some other information and found this thread where you posted an image of SE5's in formation in FE2:

http://combatace.com/topic/78299-another-new-user-add-on-planefm-question/

 

and my wingmen look nothing like that at all.  They're just zig-zagging all over the sky behind me from the moment I take off.  If it is "just wait until you install Peter's FM's" then no problem, but just wanted to make sure I haven't got a parm wrong or something as right now I'm getting no formation flying from my wingmen at all and nothing that looks like the image you posted above.

 

Thanks!

[+quack74 329]

Try adding the AI I posted above. Should take care of the zig-sagging. I use FE2 so I don't know if it has a different effect on earlier FE versions.

[+Geezer 3,569]

I'd also like to thank you guys for the guidance you have given Shoresroad.  It's been so long since I had FE2 installed that I am pretty much starting over again, and the info above will be a big help.

[shoresroad 2]

Try adding the AI I posted above. Should take care of the zig-sagging. I use FE2 so I don't know if it has a different effect on earlier FE versions.

 

Hi Quack,

 

I didn't forget your post and I've got the code saved to a text file.  Just thought I might be doing something wrong at a basic level when I saw 33Lima's screen shot.

 

I've started with the Armchair Aces Redux project so learning a bunch of stuff as I go along adding everything in the list to get it going.  Will tackle AI changes at the individual plane level next and start with your code above.

 

Also having a lot of fun flying planes I never have had the chance to fly in a sim before as I work at adding the planes for Redux.  Having a great time in a Fokker D.IIIL at the moment in Single Missions :o)

 

Finding FE2 is like finding IL-2 1946 now if you didn't know about it.  With a huge body of 3rd party mods it is the most comprehensive WW1 flight sim ever.  In my Fokker D.IIIL I'm running into Spad A2's and Voisins and who knows what out there...amazing!  Great flak in the air and the ground flashes from the flak guns.  The enemy AI is great...but I don't need to tell you guys about it...lol

 

Thanks!

Edited February 22, 2014 by shoresroad

[33LIMA 972]

Hi 33Lima,

 

I missed this comment the first time and what I'm seeing right now with my FE2 wingmen is not even close to the nice formations I see in RoF and WOFF.

 

I was looking for some other information and found this thread where you posted an image of SE5's in formation in FE2:

http://combatace.com/topic/78299-another-new-user-add-on-planefm-question/

 

and my wingmen look nothing like that at all.  They're just zig-zagging all over the sky behind me from the moment I take off.  If it is "just wait until you install Peter's FM's" then no problem, but just wanted to make sure I haven't got a parm wrong or something as right now I'm getting no formation flying from my wingmen at all and nothing that looks like the image you posted above.

 

Thanks!

Hi Shoresroad

 

My issue with OFF formations is that the  are legacy CFS3 - very wide, WW2 fighter style, much too spread out for WW1 (from when they really started formation flying, anyway). And that likewise, formations are very easily lost. I always fly as leader and anything but the gentlest course change sends the flight slipping well wide and taking ages to catch up. CFS3 was the same ,but at least with WW2 reserves of power, the fighters caught up again relatively quickly. In a climb, my OFF wingmen also tend to fall far below, and need me to level off for a bit, at which point the AI seems to recognise the vertical separation and they climb back up.

 

I'd be very interested to know what improvements WOFF has made here, as these formation-keeping issues were a real negative for me, in OFF.

 

As for RoF, my own experience is that when they're good, they're very, very good (best of all) but when they're bad, they're awful. You look back and one or more of your wingmen has disappeared, and can usually be seen instead weaving about, somewhere behind and well below, possibly after a near miss. In my DFW mission report at SimHQ, here: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3817656/Re_Best_Current_WWI_Sim#Post3817656 ...I mentioned how I looked back to see both wingmen just spinning in, without any visible damage. On an earlier DFW mission, they just disappeared!

 

In FE the wingmen weave much of the time but they seem to stay with me a lot better! I find they may stop weaving after a while but are fairly easily set off again. If I 'warp' they are settled when I come out. AI-led formations don't have this problem, which helps a lot; the screenie with the nice echelon will either be AI, or mine at a point they were settled. Be interested to see the results of that edit!

[+ojcar 157]

I wouldn't touch a lot the AI data, because they are customized for each plane. You know, some planes are better doing the "turn and burn" thing, others are better in the verrtical fight, etc. If you change the AI data and make it the same for all planes, their virtual pilots will try to fly all the planes same way.

 

Maybe some planes need improvement, but if you want a SPAD VII trying to fight the same way that a Sopwith Pup......

[shoresroad 2]

I wouldn't touch a lot the AI data, because they are customized for each plane. You know, some planes are better doing the "turn and burn" thing, others are better in the verrtical fight, etc. If you change the AI data and make it the same for all planes, their virtual pilots will try to fly all the planes same way.

 

Maybe some planes need improvement, but if you want a SPAD VII trying to fight the same way that a Sopwith Pup......

 

Hi Ojcar,

 

Yeah, I'm going to go slow.  Right now I'm working on your Armchair Redux and adding yours or Peters FM's to start.  Then once I'm more familiar with FE2 I will consider other changes, but for now a lot to get my mind around and become familiar with :o)

 

One question for you:  I am downloading aircraft models from the A Team and following your Redux instructions and when I got to the Bristol Scout C the A Team has two versions but you don't specify which version in your instructions.  They have the Top Lewis version (mounted on the top wing) and the Side Fire Lewis version (mounted on the fuselage at an angle that shoots just past the prop arc).  Which one should I use for Redux?

 

Thanks!

 

P.S.  If the A Team now has two versions when at one time just one I'm assuming they will have two different folder names, so also please let me know the name of your folder for the Bristol C version you are using with Redux.

Edited February 23, 2014 by shoresroad

[+ojcar 157]

Check the messenger, mate!

[shoresroad 2]

Check the messenger, mate!

 

Thanks!

 

Just finished installing Armchair Aces Redux last night and it is fantastic.  Thank you for the excellent instructions, your mods, and to every other modder on the list of what it took to get Redux up and running.  It's an amazing transformation that I watched happen as I went through the process, and quite the education :o)

[MrGoTime 20]

Not to revive a dying thread, but I just wanted to jump in and say thanks! I got something horribly wrong the first time I tried to put everything together and got an install that was broken. But last night I was able to get a good working install with updated atmosphere and the Armchair Aces campaigns. Outstanding! I've been flying the Vickers gunbus an absolutely loving it. Thanks everything for your input and help. For immersion I've been rocking FE2 modded, but when I am craving the full sensory aspect of sim flying, I fire of ROF. Great stuff. Thanks all.