Roads on DS map?

[Stratos 3,192]

If I want to add road tiles on Desert Storm map. How many different tiles will I need? Anyone know?

 

Thanks.

[+Menrva 4,201]

Many tiles, Stratos. I was working on a revamped Iran\Iraq terrain for the Iran\Iraq war mod , but the project is now on hiatus because of RL.

Problem is that the Desert Storm terrain lacks rivers, lakes, port and road tiles, while the post DS, OIF terrain has many targets and cities placed in wrong coordinates, they do not follow RL locations. My terrain has corrected most target locations (both for DS and after DS) but it is as of now unplayable due to a lack of airfield flattening in the HFD and due to missing water bodies in the TFD.

If there is enough interest, I might resume working at it, but sporadically since tomorrow I begin my studies at university. If only I could hand the terrain package over to our terrain master, Wrench...

[+Gepard 11,307]

You would need not to many new tiles. Two or 3 different streight roads, 5 or 6 different curves, crossroad and so on. Lets say 10 new tiles.

But you will lay them all per hand on the map. Its a lot of work. Take a look on my old Persian Gulf terrain for WOI. There i have put some road through the desert.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

More than roads, I'd like to have the wide Tigris and Euphrates, and Mesopotamian marsh, appear on a new map for the DS mod. The two rivers are outstanding visual landmarks, that could allow you not to lose orientation during a dogfight over Baghdad.

[Wrench 9,849]

Roads... somewhere in the neighborhood of 48-60 tiles, and their associated TODs. That should include all the various transitions

 

Since I built the base DS map....and, admittedly an early effort. It needs expansion by 500+ km in ALL directions, as there's no sea room. And considering few, if any CVBGS actually operated in those shallow, confined & enclosed waters.....

I would also think that somewhere in the region of 12-20 "specials" for the specific cities (read: ports) would be necessary.

 

 

 

but it is as of now unplayable due to a lack of airfield flattening in the HFD and due to missing water bodies in the TFD.

 

Horseshit!

The TFD has nothing (really) to do with flattening are airfield. Althought, my preference is 'airfield specific' tiles, that (may) only have  have things on the edges (TOD buildings and trees) For something in the middile of the wilderness, I would still use a specific tile (like I did on Gepard's PG terrain for SF2-- which has the roads still, btw. Needs better, more 'regional' looking tiles though.)

 

You can flatten airfields individually, with a specific citylist ini. This is almost a daily chore for me. You don't have to list them all, but you DO have to visually inspect them all. One at a time.  A simple "test mission", one for each side is needed.

Quite easily done in the 3W TE. I think a wrote a small tutorial on something of this nature in the Old 1stGen KB.

 

Marsh/wetlands are a nightmare ... there's no real way to simulate them. However, it can be done, after a fashion. Look on the OTC+ map, and you'll find the Everglades are somewhat 'swampy' (meaning they kind of have 'water'). Of course, they'd all be tgas, to get the water effect from the alpha channel

Edited September 22, 2014 by Wrench

[Stratos 3,192]

Don't get me wrong, I fly ODS a lot, in fact together with Vietnam pack is the game I fly the most, but I think it will be amazing If the terrain gets a bit updated to current standards. As you say Kevin will look a lot better with a bigger map together with special tiles like Basrah harbour, or Baghdad landmarks. The additon of the Euphrates and Tigris will add a lot too!

I asked about roads in order to break the monotony of sand desert, look at the pics, lof of rocks, mountains, hills, ravines, bushes and others that break the monotnoy and will make the low altitude flying a lot more interesting I think, specially at night. Of course I know how hard is to build a terrain or even update, simply wanted to know how many tiles for roads. Thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tigris on Baghdad.

 

[Wrench 9,849]

Just came to me...

The Iran/Iraq 2003 map is essentially the DS map (well, not really...it's the iran/Iraq map), retiled. Shitloads of new tiles, rivers AND roads. Also, make sure you add the upgraded tile set

 

terrain (original)

http://combatace.com/files/file/12453-iraniraq-2003-terrain-for-sf2/

 

replacement tile set:

 

http://combatace.com/files/file/14172-iran-iraq-replacement-desert-tileset/

 

these tiles could be readily adapted for the DS map; a hell of a lot of work though, but doable. You'd need a TE specially built for it. I'd have to check the archive, and see if I DID remember to zip it up and store someplace safe.

 

the main problem with roads is, you have to FOLLOW them when building the movements ini, so the vehicles drive down them (more or less -- the formations can get a little "odd" sometimes)

Edited September 22, 2014 by Wrench

[Stratos 3,192]

Sorry but I don't follow you, should I use Iran/Iraq map for ODS mod?

[Wrench 9,849]

no, sorry, I consufed myself...and you too!

 

what I should have said, was you can use the tileset from IR2003 on the DS map, but it will a MAJOR undertaking. Since the targets inis needs a proper rework as well.

Also having the proper charts and maps would be necessary

[+Menrva 4,201]

 

Horseshit!

The TFD has nothing (really) to do with flattening are airfield.

 

Horseshit, am I blind? 'Cos I swear I wrote HFD, while I said that missing lakes and rivers are due to the TFD, which is a pain in the arse for those like me who handtile a terrain with only gerwin's TFDTool (TK's TerrainEditor is prone to crash a lot on my Win7 x64, even though I set it up correctly, not to mention I would also need a whole new texturelist.ini which already includes the new tiles of the Iran\Iraq terrain because I have no idea how to create one).

 

In no way Wrench I was criticizing your work, actually I was only trying to be helpful in improving it. We already discussed about it long time ago:

 

http://combatace.com/topic/81156-about-the-iraniraq-terrain-wrench/

[Wrench 9,849]

actually, you CAN criticize the DS terrain -- it was fairly early in my terraforming career, and I KNOW it weren't right!!

 

I'm on Win7 64, and have NO issues with the TE (other with using the flood/bucket tool - that will crash it). You DID install it to the root of C, right???

 

Texturelist inis are relatively easy to build. You start with the existing one (in the case of DS, the Desert texture list) and add the new tiles

[Stratos 3,192]

Have been flying around on IR2003 terrain, is a better tileset for sure, it even has roads apart from those Wrench harbours that are so fun to bomb.

[Wrench 9,849]

should check out the Persian Gulf terrain, too. Nifty ports there, too (needs a better tile set though; used the stock desert ones, plus the usual "specials")

 

Ports are blast, (pun intended). They are without a doubt the hardest to build and target. For example, below. That's 5 solid days of work; back and forth in and out of the game, back to the TE to fix something, back to PS to fix the tiles, back to the game to confirm....oh yeah.

There are 435 individual entries for that city (not lines, target numbers. for the total lines, multiply by 3). And that only target area #25. There's 75 total, with no doubt with more to be added.

 

Sometimes I think the 8 year old boy, that built elaborate "cities" with cardboard boxes and plastic Army Men ™, just to blow them up and burn them down, never quite grew up.

[+Menrva 4,201]

Many thanks for the heads up Wrench. I didn't install the TerrainEditor to the root of C. In other news, I'll experiment with the texturelist.ini and I'll try to expand the terrain area as you suggested. I wish I'd had more free time, but as of now RL is kicking bad. Just keep your fingers crossed, eventually I'll manage to finish and release it in a playable form.

Edited September 23, 2014 by blaze95

[Stratos 3,192]

I'm trying the Persian Gulf terrain, is pretty cool!! Those Iranian islands in the gulf are nicely targetted.

 

BTW, in the old Il-2 there was a Mt.Suribachi as a mission editor object, should be possible to have something similar to this in SF?

 

[Wrench 9,849]

Well, if it's any consolation, I DID find the archived TE with the DS and IR terrains. It's a complete TE for just those 2 maps. On the down side, the DS data ini, texture list and TFD will need rebuilding to match the IR texture list (which is just a time-spent kind of thing)

I could do it, but just don't have the time, inclination or desire to do so.

I can, however tell you HOW to do it..

 

normal way :

 

open the DS_data ini, leave it on the desktop.

open the TE, and DS HFD. don't be alarmed it nothing shows

open the Texture List tab, and "new texture list"

reading from the DS_data.ini, start adding the tiles in the order they appear. You'll notice the terrain will start to fill itself in.

Once all tiles are added, you can then start adding the 'special' from the IR texture list. THAT will be difficult part

-------

Stratos:

 

yes. on the WW2 Hawaii terrain, Ford Island is lod object, created by Geezer. Unfortuantely, the damn thing isn't working right in SF2

Edited September 23, 2014 by Wrench

[Stratos 3,192]

-------

Stratos:

 

yes. on the WW2 Hawaii terrain, Ford Island is lod object, created by Geezer. Unfortuantely, the damn thing isn't working right in SF2

Shame, cause some of those big rocky hills scatered on Saudi desert would have added a lot to the theatre, specially for those low level missions with the F-111 and the F.1, also being objects and for that collidable, will give the player and the AI something to worry about while flying low level.

[+Menrva 4,201]

Still thanks for the additional info, Wrench. If I manage to find some free time this weekend or the next one I'll post my results here.

[Wrench 9,849]

If you want the TE, just let me know.

 

Hidden inside it, in the IR terrain sub-folder is a new DEM for the region. Note the outlined box, as to what the size should be

 

I should also remind everyone, the IR and DS terrains are "standard" 3W scale, NOT full scale. Meaning, they're 63% of the Real World ™. What that means is, to correctly fix the issues, an entire NEW terrain is needed

 

 

.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Wrench

[Stratos 3,192]

Wow, now that's a BIG MAP! But you're right, Red Sea, the bases on Southern Turkey... Is all there. Will need the mountains for Saudi Arabia as well too.

 

I'm installing WW2 Hawaii map in order to see how that Ford Island look. I still think my idea is doable. BTW should that rocky hill object block radar? So you can fly low avoiding Iraqi radar emissions??

[Wrench 9,849]

I don't think LOD objects work for terrain masking.

Mountains and hills, as they're "real" in the height field DO block radars and radar guided missiles. That's been true since day one in SFP1

[+Menrva 4,201]

Wrench, I'll PM you, I'd like to have a look at it. However time ago I started modding the original IR terrain, fixing the targets coordinates. Creating a new one of such size would be too much for me, and I guess it will be less precise too since it will be the (standard TW) 63% of the real size. Instead I'm thinking that I can expand it a little more to the south and east, so Turkey and part of Syria are not present, not to mention the Red Sea which appears well behind The Wall. Maybe we can use the OffMapAirbase statement for those who have SF2 NA, so the AI will be flying from the airbases in Turkey.

[Stratos 3,192]

 

-------

Stratos:

 

yes. on the WW2 Hawaii terrain, Ford Island is lod object, created by Geezer. Unfortuantely, the damn thing isn't working right in SF2

 

Is that a Series 1 terrain? Cannot find it in SF2 series downloads, still itnerested in trying my aproach.

[Wrench 9,849]

Stratos: yes, it should be in Series 1. I only converted the one in my PTO mods folder. It will have some issues in SF2 (being kind to my own work. It HAS issues!!)

 

Blaze: IF you, at some point do choose to do all new, to get around the "standard too small stock size", when importing the DEM, you do this (see image)

Because, what is (approx.) 63 x 2???

 

the 'size' would be a least 2000 km, maybe even more. The most difficult part is figuring what the Lat  & Long for the upper left corner would be. Google Earth can help with that

 

Don't worry about the Height Scale at 150 ... you can fix that at the very last thing, when the terrain is finished by using the "smooth height field" function.

 

I'd REALLLY reccomend reading Gepard's terrain tutiorials in the 1stGen Knowledge Base, at least on the "getting started" bits.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Wrench

[Stratos 3,192]

Ah, just tried, it doesn't look that bad, my question is. Is ford Island a 3d object placed there? And If yes, were all the objects and the airfield itself placed on top of it?