Tweaked Flight Models and Realism Pack for FE2

[Silberpfeil 363]

A newer Triplane, gentlemen?  Great news!  I put twin Vickers on my personal mount and adjusted the historical parameters (took a guess at a new CG including revised pilot seating location and some other bits).  It packs a wallop when I can get it close to an old Albatros but is admittedly difficult to keep the sights on your adversary.  Re-skinned it to fly along with RNAS Naval 10's "Black Maria", "Black Death", etc., and renamed it "Black 'n Blue"!  

[jeanba 1,920]

Good

 

I am espceillay waiitng for the Spad VII

[vonOben 55]

Which types are you finding too fragile now...

 

Hi VonS

 

I initially tested with your setting

VolumeStructurePoint=2500

 

but I find the planes much to fragile with this setting so I changed to

 

VolumeStructurePoint=6000

 

and the wings are not too fragile anymore.

 

Best regards

 

vonOben

[vonOben 55]

 

Here's a detailed road plan for those interested of where I'd like to go with future updates.

 

 

Hi again VonS

 

Nice ideas for further improvements, I'm looking forward to them!

 

Have you considered making the two seater gunner more accurate when shooting?

 

In most aircraft they are terrible at hitting and you can attack them without caution , if I remember correctly the only reasonable good shooter is  in the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.

 

Best regards

 

vonOben

[+VonS 1,424]

Hi Von Oben,

 

Glad to hear that increasing the VolumeStructurePoint value in the aircraft object ini file solved the problem - that is a much simpler solution than re-tweaking the previously tweaked MaxG values per aircraft data ini file. I will therefore proceed to implement the MaxG values for lift surfaces, for ver. 8.9 of the update pack, for the other models not touched in relation to MaxG values so far. I'm happy with the values for the MaxG surfaces, and the damage rating tweaks, done so far (in my attempt to get them historical) - so the VolumeStructurePoint value is a good, simple and consistent one to alter - to get more robustness out of all types, across the board - and to offset the fragility of some aircraft types.

 

I think the DH.2, for example, is a little too tough to knock down in its current form (especially with high VolumeStructurePoint numbers) - probably it's structural factor values are too high (will look into this for a next update and reduce those numbers if necessary, to make the DH.2 a bit more fragile...plus I haven't yet implemented the MaxG tweaks on it either).

 

Haven't ever bothered tweaking gunner accuracy on the two-seaters, but Peter01, with his tweaks, made the gunners less lethal. To go back to the original, more accurate values, use the following numbers in the data inis (for two seaters)...eventually I will get around to including the more accurate numbers in a future update of the FM pack:

 

PitchAngleRate=40

 

YawAngleRate=60

 

(the Peter01 values were 25 and 32)

 

Also, Mike Dora recommends even higher values (...PM him to get his recommended numbers if you like, for single- and double-gun Scarff mounts, and values he finds accurate for pre-Scarff mountings).

 

The gunners might not become more accurate, but they do put up a more aggressive fight with higher pitch and yaw numbers, from his research into the matter.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[vonOben 55]

Hi VonS

Thanks for the info!

I found this interesting thread about the gunner:
http://combatace.com/topic/51340-two-seaters-why-wont-my-gunners-open-fire/?p=382237

 

With Peter's FM, a suffix'_GUNNER' is added the rear gun for example:
303CAL_LEWIS_MK2_GUNNER
which is a modded weapon with less effective rounds and if you can remove the '_GUNNER' text to get back the stock weapon.

 

Best regards

 

vonOben

[+VonS 1,424]

Hi Von Oben,

 

Thank you for that link. I've usually stuck to using the "GUNNER" variant entry for the weapons/gun section in the aircraft data inis, for gunners in two seaters - although I did modify the accuracy of the gunner and non-gunner equivalents, for the same gun types, in the big update pack ver. 8.0.

 

Have now checked further into the guns folder (in objects), for example, for the Lewis MK II data ini variants - and I have the same rate of fire for the non-gunner, gunner, and hgunner variants - the difference is that I have an accuracy rating of 40 for the gunner data ini, and 70 for non-gunner and hgunner variants. Considering that I call up the gunner variant data ini for the gun in my data inis for two-seaters (for the observer) - as of my ver. 8.0 big update - this may hold the answer, simply to increase the accuracy rating to 70 in the gunner data ini for all gun variants in the guns folder (I believe that the default value for gunners was even lower, something like 25 if I remember...and I increased it to 40....a further increase may be required...but I think that higher values for pitch and yaw, as per Mike Dora's suggestions, are probably also required to get rid of sloppy gunners completely).

 

I don't use the "hgunner" values anywhere, by the way, in my data ini mods for the planes - don't know whether that refers to heavy gunner, human gunner (from the multi-player days of FE/FEgold), or something else.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[+VonS 1,424]

Hello FE2 flyers and those following this thread,

 

Here's something you might want to cut and paste into your data inis for the Morane Type H...I will get around to uploading it with the ver. 8.9 update of the FM pack - but I stumbled on this yesterday.

 

If you are using one of Stephen1918's new pilots, use the following position coordinates (otherwise his feet stick out of the bottom of the fuselage, behind the engine cowling):

 

// Crew -----

 

[Pilot]

 

Position=0.0,-0.07,0.45

 

Also, the Type H is unable to take off under its own power (while the AI in the type takes off nicely). For the fix, cut-and-paste the following values over your values in the "// Landing Gears -----" section:

 

[LeftMainGear]

SystemType=LANDING_GEAR

Retractable=FALSE

DragArea=0.65

ModelNodeName=LeftGear

ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE

ShockAnimationID=-1

ShockStroke=0.05

SpringFactor=1.3

DampingFactor=1.0

WheelNodeName=LeftWheel

RotationAxis=X-Axis

RollingRadius=0.35

CastoringWheel=FALSE

RollingCoefficient=-0.049

MaxLoadFactor=6.0

 

[RightMainGear]

SystemType=LANDING_GEAR

Retractable=FALSE

DragArea=0.65

ModelNodeName=RightGear

ReverseModelOrientation=True

ShockAnimationID=-1

ShockStroke=0.05

SpringFactor=1.3

DampingFactor=1.0

WheelNodeName=RightWheel

RotationAxis=X-Axis

RollingRadius=0.35

CastoringWheel=FALSE

RollingCoefficient=-0.049

MaxLoadFactor=6.0

 

[TailGear]

SystemType=LANDING_GEAR

Retractable=FALSE

IsSkid=TRUE

HideGearNode=FALSE

ModelNodeName=TailSkid

ShockAnimationID=-1

ShockStroke=0.3

SpringFactor=0.3

DampingFactor=1.0

ContactPoint=0.0000,-4.56,-0.75

RollingCoefficient=0.40

MaxLoadFactor=6.0

 

I tweaked the springfactor for the tail skid, reduced the rolling coefficient for the tail skid too, but the most important part was changing the rolling coefficient numbers for the left and right wheels to -0.049. That's right: a slightly negative number to help ground roll "get started." Don't change this value since it will be a problem for the AI: values of -0.05 (and higher negative values) will create a situation where you won't go below 1 or 2 kph even with engine off; while values of -0.04 to about -0.048 are acceptable for the player-flown Type H - they're no good for the AI since it will then do a "very wide" circle taxing around the airfield, before taking off. With a value of -0.049, you can take off, and the AI will do a short-diameter circle beside you or around you   - and will then take off nicely.

 

The trick is to pull the stick all the way back as you accelerate - once you pass about 30kph the Type H will "unglue" itself from the ground and start accelerating adequately. Keep the stick back and ascend at about 90kph.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

 

P.S. Never modify the "DragArea" values for the left and right gears since this ruins the overall FM by increasing or decreasing the top speed of the aircraft type (making it unhistorical).

Edited March 27, 2017 by VonS

[yubba 70]

Could you direct me to,, or show me FM tweaks for the Nieuport 28N she is quite sluggish in the turns,,

[+VonS 1,424]

Could you direct me to,, or show me FM tweaks for the Nieuport 28N she is quite sluggish in the turns,,

 

 

Hi Yubba,

 

Didn't see your post until now....

 

To make turns faster on the Nieu. 28, I recommend higher max/min deflection values for the rudder. I left mine, in my tweaked data ini for the type, to +/-30. Something like +/- 35 might do the trick, also increasing the control rate often helps (I left the control rate at 5.0 for the type). For earlier war aircraft, control rates of 4.0 work well, and about 3.0 for very early types. Increasing the maxcontrolspeed entries also works well, for rudder, elevator, and aileron values, if you find the type sluggish in turns. Are you flying an unmodded data ini for the 28 or did you try my tweaks for it? I managed to get mine to the historical top speed of about 196 kph for the Nieu. 28 - it was even worse in turns in unmodded form, and stalled easily.

 

Here are my values for the flightcontrol section:

 

[FlightControl]

StallSpeed=18.06

CruiseSpeed=49.00

ClimbSpeed=43.55

CornerSpeed=43.34

LandingSpeed=19.80

MaxG=5.00

MaxSpeedSL=54.44

MachLimit=0.192

PitchDamper=0.40

RollDamper=0.15

YawDamper=0.0

 

And the engine output value I'm using is:

 

SLPowerDry=137311.979

 

Prop rpm values in my file (the modded one) are:

 

SlowPropRPM=400

FastPropRPM=1400

MaxPropRPM=1900

IdlePropRPM=500

 

Several hundred rpms higher than historical so that I could keep the engine output down to historical levels, otherwise the engine output would be too high with lower (historical) rpms - always a juggling act trying to get everything right in the data inis.

 

The engine output and prop rpms of course don't mean much for the maneuverability in this case...better to increase the maxcontrolspeed values for the lift surfaces.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[yubba 70]

 

Hi Yubba,

 

Didn't see your post until now....

 

To make turns faster on the Nieu. 28, I recommend higher max/min deflection values for the rudder. I left mine, in my tweaked data ini for the type, to +/-30. Something like +/- 35 might do the trick, also increasing the control rate often helps (I left the control rate at 5.0 for the type). For earlier war aircraft, control rates of 4.0 work well, and about 3.0 for very early types. Increasing the maxcontrolspeed entries also works well, for rudder, elevator, and aileron values, if you find the type sluggish in turns. Are you flying an unmodded data ini for the 28 or did you try my tweaks for it? I managed to get mine to the historical top speed of about 196 kph for the Nieu. 28 - it was even worse in turns in unmodded form, and stalled easily.

 

Here are my values for the flightcontrol section:

 

[FlightControl]

StallSpeed=18.06

CruiseSpeed=49.00

ClimbSpeed=43.55

CornerSpeed=43.34

LandingSpeed=19.80

MaxG=5.00

MaxSpeedSL=54.44

MachLimit=0.192

PitchDamper=0.40

RollDamper=0.15

YawDamper=0.0

 

And the engine output value I'm using is:

 

SLPowerDry=137311.979

 

Prop rpm values in my file (the modded one) are:

 

SlowPropRPM=400

FastPropRPM=1400

MaxPropRPM=1900

IdlePropRPM=500

 

Several hundred rpms higher than historical so that I could keep the engine output down to historical levels, otherwise the engine output would be too high with lower (historical) rpms - always a juggling act trying to get everything right in the data inis.

 

The engine output and prop rpms of course don't mean much for the maneuverability in this case...better to increase the maxcontrolspeed values for the lift surfaces.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

 

I was unmodded and didn't see any data on the 28,, so I winged it ,,, with it a few percentage points under the camel snipe as a guide..I mess up the game and had to do a re install,, I though it was due to me messing around with FMs in the Data file hanging up the computer till I had to reboot ,, it appears it was something else, I never had that problem before in this series.

[+VonS 1,424]

Hello FE2 flyers,

 

Here are some minor tweaks for pilot seating position in several of the types (under the "Crew" section of the data inis), so that feet don't stick out from the bottom of the fuselage (will roll this into an 8.9 update).

 

For the Nieu. 17, 17bis, 23, and 23bis, use:

 

Position=0.0,-0.70,0.35

 

For the Nieu. 24bis, use:

 

Position=0.0,-1.0,0.70

 

(The wwiPilotNew3 is a good one to substitute for the old blocky-head one on the 24bis, for PilotModelName, by the way.)

 

For the Hanriot HD.1, use:

 

Position=0.0,-0.95,0.75

 

For the Nieu. 27 and 27(FAS), use:

 

Position=0.0,-1.0,0,72

 

The Nieu. 10, 11, 12, and 16 types, also the Hanriot HD.2 (seaplane), are fine as is.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[yubba 70]

I was unmodded and didn't see any data on the 28,, so I winged it ,,, with it a few percentage points under the camel snipe as a guide..I mess up the game and had to do a re install,, I though it was due to me messing around with FMs in the Data file hanging up the computer till I had to reboot ,, it appears it was something else, I never had that problem before in this series.

I was getting that alot ,, it is real finicky in some Data ini entries ,, something is hard coded and won't respond to edits.. when I get it narrowed down I'll tell you what I think it is ,, I also had to re-install just 2 weeks into the game after purchase ,, I get alittle nuts ironing stuff out.

[yubba 70]

I was getting that alot ,, it is real finicky in some Data ini entries ,, something is hard coded and won't respond to edits.. when I get it narrowed down I'll tell you what I think it is ,, I also had to re-install just 2 weeks into the game after purchase ,, I get alittle nuts ironing stuff out.

This is what I get for posting in the am before coffee,, I think the problem lays in ,, if you're changing stuff while in a campaign ,, the save campaign file doesn't jive with your changes,, and freezes the computer till you have too reboot,, so if you change something during a campaign delete the campaign and start over

[+VonS 1,424]

This is what I get for posting in the am before coffee,, I think the problem lays in ,, if you're changing stuff while in a campaign ,, the save campaign file doesn't jive with your changes,, and freezes the computer till you have too reboot,, so if you change something during a campaign delete the campaign and start over

 

Hello friend,

 

I doubt that modified data inis are causing the freezes and crashes. It's most likely some other file. I've experienced this on occasion if trying to do a custom load on the plane types, in the FE2 menu, or if modifying the number of planes in my flight - and if I am using a custom missioncontrol.ini file (such as from the excellent medals pack by Capt. Vengeur). Removing the missioncontrol.ini file from my Flight folder allows me to do custom loadouts before a flight begins - although removing it probably ruins the way medals are awarded in the Vengeur pack - so I leave that ini file in place and go with default mission loadouts, depending on mission type.

 

This is in reference to single missions in FE, bottled into WineSkin on a Mac. I am assuming that a newer version of the Wine wrapper fixes this problem, and also allows Campaign mode to work - will test one of these days. Currently I am on WS8Wine1.5.1 (version of the wrapper) - since it gives excellent fps on integrated video cards - about 70 to 90 fps on average, although it goes as high as 150 sometimes.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[+VonS 1,424]

June 16, 2017 Update: A few new planes added (200HP Alb. D.Va, Spandau-armed Fokk. E.II, Etrich Taube, early Morane Parasol types), also MaxG limits for lift surfaces, and damage rating and structural factor tweaks implemented across the rest of the data inis. Further FM updates to the Farman and Anatra types, and Halb. D.V, are included. As well added are modifications to wind speeds, for greater realism, and changes to wind speed sounds and speeds in the aircraft object ini file, for greater immersion and spotting of differences between indicated airspeed and speed relative to ground. New wind/stall sounds are included, also new sounds for the 100 and 200HP (auv) Mercedes engines. Please consult the included "Read Me" file for more thorough info. and installation instructions.

 

Happy flying!,

Von S

[vonOben 55]

Hi VonS

Thanks for the update, much appreciated!    

S!

 

vonOben

[+VonS 1,424]

Nov. 1, 2017 Update: Several planes added, such as the Gothas, the HP 0/400 (now player-flown), also player-flown SPAD 7 types, including by Dux for the Eastern front and Mann-Egerton built ones for the British in Mesopotamia and the Western front; also included is correct over-compression of the engines on the Viper-powered Se5a, the Ansaldo SVA.5, the 235hp variant of the SPAD 13, as well as the previously tweaked over-compression on the Alb. D.Va (200hp), Fokk. D.VIIf, AEG. G.IV, and the Pfalz Dr.1 (the Gothas III, IV, and V also feature subtle over-compression); also added are further tweaks to ailerons/elevators/rudders across the SPAD single-seater line, a couple of new engine sounds, larger sun size in the environsys files across the weather/wind types, and a simplified installation process with all previous versions being updated to 8.9 in a large, "consolidated" folder, and the ver. 9.0 tweaks featured in a separate folder. As always, please consult the included "Read Me" file for more thorough installation info., and more details about the FM tweaks.

 

Happy flying!,

Von S

[jeanba 1,920]

Hello

 

I cannot download the file, it says that I don't have permission to do it :(

 

Any idea ?

[+VonS 1,424]

4 minutes ago, jeanba said:

Hello

 

I cannot download the file, it says that I don't have permission to do it :(

 

Any idea ?

Hello Jeanba, I think the file is still waiting approval from the administrators. Hopefully it will be available soon.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[jeanba 1,920]

Thank you :)

[+VonS 1,424]

Thought I'd mention that for the Dux, Mann-Egerton, and 220hp SPAD 7, you should either extract skins for them from the relevant CAT folder in FE2 (no. 3 I think is the one to look for), or download a SPAD skin from CombatAce (otherwise you'll get an albino plane). I like the Russ. Air Service skins since they can be used with any insignia; also great is WhiteKnight's grey skin for the SPAD 7; stock skins work good too:

 

 

NOTE: In the Russ. skin package for the SPAD 7 is a cockpit. ini file that will make the SPAD 7 types flyable in FE2 without having to download the A-Team SPAD 7 and transplanting its cockpit folder and cockpit.ini file into the stock FE2 SPAD 7 folders - only noticed this now, but very convenient (although this simpler trick gives you the SPAD 13 cockpit, the A-Team one looking slightly more sparse as was probably typical of the SPAD 7).

Von S

Edited November 3, 2017 by VonS
Added some important comments.

[jeanba 1,920]

Hello

 

I tested the Spad7 180 cv, and it is very hard to takeoff

Any idea ?

 

I join the mission

 

Spad VII C.1(180) Offensive Patrol 1.MSN

[+VonS 1,424]

Hi Jeanba,

The Spads are now somewhat slippery, on ground and in the air, as historical. For the Spad 7 types, especially the 180hp and the rare 220hp variant, two variants work well for smooth take offs:

1. push stick full forward, increase throttle to about 45%, and wait for the tail to come up and the speed to exceed about 70kph; then you can go to full throttle (when the tail comes up, be ready to apply right rudder since the pull of the prop and the low alpha number, thin wings tend to swing the plane to the left); same advice applies to the 150hp variant, but it is most effective on the 220hp variant, and the 180hp one

2. the other alternative is to push stick full forward, go full throttle right away, but be ready to kick the rudder to the right and also to do a bit of "dancing" with the rudder (not too much) until the plane straightens out

All of the Spad 7 types take off best around 120kph (any slower and they tend to flop about). The Spad 12 and 235hp variant of the Spad 13 take off best around 130kph. The Spad 13 types are slightly easier to take off than the type 7 (since overall better distribution of weight and larger rudder/elevator surface area).

The worst one to take off is the Spad 12 (a real nightmare as was probably historical). Even the original, unmodified FM for the Spad 12 was difficult to take off, especially now with more correct numbers for the thin wings. All the single-seater Spads now tend to stall with the tail dropping first, especially the type 12.

To take off in the Spad 12:

1. push stick full forward, and throttle to full

2. get ready to apply right rudder at about 50 kph ("anticipating" its spin to the left that comes at around 52kph)

3. once the plane starts to correct itself, to the right, get ready to "dance" with the rudder for the next 20 seconds or so , since it will now require left rudder then right rudder again, etc.

4. small or quick movements of rudder, left and right, will be necessary to get the plane into its best "groove" (for lack of a better term) - to let its engine inertia loose in a straight line - the nose will then start to rise so that you can see the horizon once you pass about 90kph - this is where you want to go with the speed - then it is easy to straighten out, accelerate to about 130kph, and climb gently (the type tends to stall below about 115kph when climbing...so be careful with the speed)

5. The type 12 is the most "misbehaved" of the types - no wonder it only went to the best pilots

Also, when looping in the Spads, be gentle on the back elevator at the top of the loop (so as not to skid out of the loop), and try to maintain at least about 90kph when at the top of the loop.

Happy flying,

Von S

Edited November 11, 2017 by VonS
Fixed typos.

[jeanba 1,920]

Thak you

 

It works well for the spad VII

 

Still need to learn how to fight in it :)