Armed Observers for FE

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

In another thread, Whiteknight06604 suggested an "eye-candy" observer carrying a gun. I uploaded some today. I made the skins using the stock FE pilot skins, so their uniforms should match. I also made versions with helmets to go with the helmeted pilots I made before.

 

We don't have many unarmed planes, but I enjoy flying an unarmed recon mission occasionally. Dodging and weaving your way back to base must have been something a lot of pilots did in the early years of the war.

 

My thanks to Whiteknight for making the suggestion and for beta-testing the observers.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Stephen1918

[Silberpfeil 363]

Very nice, Stephen1918 - thank you!  For your interest, below are two shots of an unarmed Bleriot (replica) with a pair of fuselage attachment brackets for securing a rifle so the observer doesn't have to maintain "Port Arms" during the duration of a flight!

[+Trotski 936]

ahhh sweeeet.....it would be nice to be able to get the obs to fire single pot shots , or another nice touch would be the ability to fire a Verey flare , a pipe dream I know, but still......one can dweam ......maybe one day if we get this all ported over onto SF's engine it could happen......yeah yeah....I know....I'm a delusional loonie  hahahaha     

[+gterl 1,213]

Ok, now we need definitely an Etrich Taube or a Bleriot XI 'Militaire'

 

[+Trotski 936]

For sure we do !! we have needed these early types for a long time now, along with more 2 seater Albatri variants and numerous other 2 seater scouts, think most of the Fighters have been covered now, except for some really obscure ones, a S.I.A 7B for the Italian front would be nice along with a pomilio and SAML oh and some 2 seater Spads and a Vimy and a ...........the list goes on eh !! 

[+gterl 1,213]

Yes!!

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by gterl

[+whiteknight06604 934]

ahhh sweeeet.....it would be nice to be able to get the obs to fire single pot shots , or another nice touch would be the ability to fire a Verey flare , a pipe dream I know, but still......one can dweam ......maybe one day if we get this all ported over onto SF's engine it could happen......yeah yeah....I know....I'm a delusional loonie  hahahaha     

I did it fast and dirty. obviously the armed observer is not animated but it's pretty simple to copy over the data from another aircraft. just copy over the gunner and rear seat(or what ever most matches the field of fire) gun data. then swap the machine gun stated for a rifle. I've added a dummy gun firing forward too so the aircraft can be ordered to fight air to air. it adds a tiny bit of risk when you attack a so called unarmed aircraft.A flare might be simulated by a gun with a large/bright tracer effect and a slow velocity?

here is my test MSTypeLAO. it's just a hack and slash job and nothing is an original idea of mine but just some cut and paste ideas from others far smarter than me. it might give people an idea how to get their observers to fire at enemies though . this is set up for FE2 as thats all I have installed at this time.

FE2 Test.rar

Edited March 15, 2017 by whiteknight06604

[+Trotski 936]

ahhh see, these clever and wise persons, I a mere humble skinner, awed by the majiks and pokery being jiggered.......makes my heart swell, there is life in the sim yet methunks !! I still do seriously have this mad notion about porting the whole thing over to the SF engine though, I am sure it could be done, true it would not be an overnight job, but I feel sure with all you mystics and number crunching  ( not to mention 3DS Max wielding ) clever chappies, and with humble input from the likes of a humble and lowly skinners such as yours truly, it could be.......just imagine, the ability to have skins in JPG format, and not in mere BMP....I have as you may or may not have seen, done some of the FE aircraft to work in SF....and they are a thing of beeeeuuuteeee .......So my fellow Knight, ( I am a knight of St John ) I am so looking forward to playing with your " hack and slash " along with Stephens rifle totin' observers.....and look forward to seeing more of the same, maybe if Mr Geezer would do us some of his rather nice pilots, but as gunners/observers, and with the hard hat helmets too....in the meantime, I must do my next set of skins, hopefully coming to a site near you !! 

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

For sure we do !! we have needed these early types for a long time now, ... some 2 seater Spads ...

 

I  made two 2 seater SPADs a little more than a year ago. They're available in the download area.

[jeanba 1,920]

I  made two 2 seater SPADs a little more than a year ago. They're available in the download area.

Yes, and they are very nice

Too bad we don't have a good mission editor !

[+Trotski 936]

Yes sorry, I have them mate, I was just pulling aircraft names out of thin air, forgot we already had Spad 2 seaters, however an Albatros C XII would be nice, as would some of the Italian 2 seaters, maybe a couple of the French heavies such as the Letord or Caudron RII I so wish I had the capability to do some myself, but that is beyond my miserable capabilities unfortunately.

[jeanba 1,920]

Yes sorry, I have them mate, I was just pulling aircraft names out of thin air, forgot we already had Spad 2 seaters, however an Albatros C XII would be nice, as would some of the Italian 2 seaters, maybe a couple of the French heavies such as the Letord or Caudron RII I so wish I had the capability to do some myself, but that is beyond my miserable capabilities unfortunately.

Caudron G6/R4/R11 or Letord would be a lot of fun :)

 

I've read an account of a recon mission performed by 3 Caudrons R11 (2 escorts) against 6 German scouts : could really be fun to fly !!!!

Edited March 16, 2017 by jeanba

[+Geezer 3,569]

 maybe if Mr Geezer would do us some of his rather nice pilots, but as gunners/observers, and with the hard hat helmets too

 

Dunno if that is practical as gunners are often part of the aircraft LOD.  Maybe Stephen1918 has some ideas?

[+Trotski 936]

I just like what you did with the pilots, they look more realistic, facially especially, I know its only Aesthetics, I have tried all sorts of different ways to make the gunners look a little more realistic, but I just dont have the skillset needed to do it, you know what I mean about the gunners though yes ? most of them look weird and , well, just not right. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by trotski00

[+Trotski 936]

Caudron G6/R4/R11 or Letord would be a lot of fun :)

 

I've read an account of a recon mission performed by 3 Caudrons R11 (2 escorts) against 6 German scouts : could really be fun to fly !!!!

apparently the Letord was built in 7 versions, including one being a heavy escort fighter , presumably to escort the Letord recce and bomber types, it seems it was common practice to have bombers escorted by similar aircraft, on the allied side, so I assume that the Caudrons were much the same, both of these aircraft are pleasing to the eye, compared to German, British and Italian heavies.......with the exception maybe of the 0/100 - 400 

[+Geezer 3,569]

 they look more realistic, facially especially,

 

Faces?  They have faces? 

[+Trotski 936]

hehehehehe well the in game ones do for the most part, except for the RFC pilot you did, or at least a pilot I use as RFC , he has what appears to be a Sidcot flying suit, and a scarf.....I cant imagine how the poor Gunners actually operated the gun, standing up in the slipstream and being freezing bloody cold, must have been awful, I have flown in open cockpit on a few occasions, and that was in the summer and at a relativley low altitude, and it was still rather chilly.

[jeanba 1,920]

apparently the Letord was built in 7 versions, including one being a heavy escort fighter , presumably to escort the Letord recce and bomber types, it seems it was common practice to have bombers escorted by similar aircraft, on the allied side, so I assume that the Caudrons were much the same, both of these aircraft are pleasing to the eye, 

Caudron G6, Letord and Caudron R4 were mainly reconnaissance and artillery spotting aircraft.

The G6 was not very fit for air combat but the R4 and Letord were maneuvrable enough to provide cover.

 

Only the R11 was designed with good escort capacities (including armored pilot seat, which was noticed by goering among others)

 

Among the French, it was common practice to fly recon and arty spotting missions with at least 2 planes :

One was performing the mission, the other acted as a spare and was protecting the first one.

Aces like Fonck scored their first skills this way.

 

As a side note, there is no record of those planes performing a bombing mission and it is very unlikely.

Edited March 17, 2017 by jeanba

[+Trotski 936]

Thats some new info I didnt have on these aircraft, thank you, I am fascinated by the First War and the emergence of air power, the leaps an bounds gained in the field of aviation was fabulous, even if the raison de etre was rather sad, I think the Golden age of aviation, which lasted until the 1960's is marvellous. I'm afraid I find the new wave of aircraft and their capabilities, somewhat bland and rather boring, yes they are technilogical marvels, and super efficient, but they just do not seem to have the magic of early aviation.

[+Geezer 3,569]

 

As a side note, there is no record of those planes performing a bombing mission and it is very unlikely.

 

Agreed.  French Aircraft of the First World War describes how the Letords were used almost exclusively for escort work.  Typically, one or two would be assigned to a recon squadron to provide protection to the recon aircraft.  Up to half a dozen Letords would be assigned to a Brequet or Salmson bomber squadron for escort duties.  Having the escort machines integral to the bomber and recon units avoided the problem of escort fighters from other squadrons missing the rendezvous.

[jeanba 1,920]

Yes, this was an evolution of the escort : as Radio, cameras became more reliable, the need for a spare lessened, but the need for protections remained (and even increased !).

Note that the escort planes were able to perform the mission and occasionnally did

 

The other point was range.

 

The Caudron R11 could escort the Breguet from the "Divisions Aériennes" very deep in German lines.

Indeed, their role was highly praised by bomber pilots, but the cost was high

Edited March 17, 2017 by jeanba

[+Geezer 3,569]

Thats some new info I didnt have on these aircraft, thank you, I am fascinated by the First War and the emergence of air power, the leaps an bounds gained in the field of aviation was fabulous, even if the raison de etre was rather sad, I think the Golden age of aviation, which lasted until the 1960's is marvellous. I'm afraid I find the new wave of aircraft and their capabilities, somewhat bland and rather boring, yes they are technilogical marvels, and super efficient, but they just do not seem to have the magic of early aviation.

 

I could not agree more.  I spent a lot of my life working on advanced jets, and came to the same conclusion.  Modern combat aircraft, and their operations, are controlled by software - not pilots.

[jeanba 1,920]

I could not agree more.  I spent a lot of my life working on advanced jets, and came to the same conclusion.  Modern combat aircraft, and their operations, are controlled by software - not pilots.

Agree, that's why I rarely play SF2 after 1980

French Aircraft of the First World War 

Be a little carefull with this book.

There are a lot of name errors or unaccuracies.

For instance, there was no "FBA type H" in the french forces, there was a FBA 150 cv (a little as if you called all US Navy Wildcat "Martlet").

But the main point is that lot of archives were discovered since, dramatically changing the career of some planes such as the Letord, the Caudron G6/R4/R11

Edited March 17, 2017 by jeanba

[+Geezer 3,569]

Agree, that's why I rarely play SF2 after 1980

 

Yep, WW1 aircrew were REAL men!

[+Geezer 3,569]

 

 

But the main point is that lot of archives were discovered since, dramatically changing the career of some planes such as the Letord, the Caudron G6/R4/R11

 

Interesting - thanks for the info.  Were those machines more widely used than previously thought?

 

From time to time, when I burn out on 1930s stuff, I revisit WW1.  I'd like to start a new WW1 aircraft but the subject matter is up in the air if I can't find my old Junkers J1 model.  Its on a disc in my closet - somewhere.

 

It looks like FE could use a Halberstadt CL2 or another French two-seater, such as the Dorand AR1.  Or perhaps a Letord/Caudron?  Understand that my aircraft take several hundred hours and about a year to make, so I want to make sure it will be an important addition to the fleet of FE aircraft. 

 

Why don't you guys vote on a new aircraft?  No personal favorites that were not used very long or in large quantities.  I am ONLY interested in machines that made a major contribution to the air war.