Hit box adjustments...

[Wrench 9,854]

just for grins and giggles, I've been going over a LOT of the aircraft we've released over the years, and thanks to Mue's Tool Box, have been readjusting and fixing incorrectly named meshes in data inis, and readjusting the hit boxes.

(images below are the PV-1 Ventura, before and after resetting them. You can see the major differences!)

are these repairs something the 2-dozen odd ww2 players might be interestered in? I probably would NOT be updating entire aircraft packages (there's just too damn many -- several hundred at least!)

[+Menrva 4,202]

Nice work, Wrench! I am more interested in post-WW2 era, but some of those aircraft were used in the 50s, so well, I think it's worth having them fixed.

[+Sundowner 4,837]

Summat I've never really grasped is what's the difference between the hit box and the bounding boxes? And which are the ones you'd add to the aircraft data ini...........old age creeping in here.

[Wrench 9,854]

I base the min/max off the bounding boxes, then the collision point (hit box?) off the bounding box, and adjust as necessary. Especially for tail draggers, that only have a single "fuselage" mesh -- this reinforces the absolute NEED for 3d modelers to break up the fuselage mesh into "nose", "fuselage", and "tail".  The same thing with wings, they must be cut into an inner and outer set.

when I was flight testing the Ventura after the box adjustments, the damn thing crashed due to the "tail" damage because the HB was too far down.

Yup, it's collision points that really mess me up! 

[+Crusader 2,101]

bounding box is simply the absolute min/max extension points of a mesh

You can pick these from the lodviewer , click on the line of the mesh in the left window and STRG+C to copy then STRG+V to insert into the ini.

Needs only small manual cleanup to remove brackets and put the 2nd value into place

hit box is the min/max of a component or system , the bounding box values can fit (for components), for systems (fueltanks, pilot, guns,  etc) they usually require "custom" min&max

values to closely define the position

[Wrench 9,854]

Menrva, which, in particular are of concern?? A lot of the transport planes (usually!) aren't in a combat zone (well, we all know that's NOT really true).  I'm dealing with 3rd party add ons. 

Give me a list and I'll see what can be done

 

Quote

for systems (fuel tanks, pilot, guns,  etc) they usually require "custom" min&max

Truer words!   Sometimes it takes longer to dial in say, fuel cells in the fuselage & wings to make sure they're INSIDE the structure than anything else (case in point: the Me-262 -- was all kinds of messed up!!)

[+Menrva 4,202]

On 30/8/2017 at 1:20 AM, Wrench said:

Menrva, which, in particular are of concern?? A lot of the transport planes (usually!) aren't in a combat zone (well, we all know that's NOT really true).  I'm dealing with 3rd party add ons. 

Give me a list and I'll see what can be done

I have no particular aircraft in mind, but I made a list of most of immediate post-WW2 era aircraft that are present in my huge install, both transport planes and bombers and fighters. Keep in mind that some come from other CombatACE mod packages (nothing of Crapun stuff, things like Wings Over Korea, paulopanz's complete skin packages, etc), so it's just a list to give you an idea of what might be worth checking out. Some of those planes have been released by you recently, so I do not think they need any fixes. So, feel free to do what you want with the list, there are no particular requests from me.

Post-WW2 Era List.txt

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Menrva

[Wrench 9,854]

looking that over, I see some that I'm pretty sure have been done, in partucular the B-29. I "think" I uploaded a newer version, possibly the KAW or Post-War versions with fixed HBs. I"ll have to recheck!

Looking at the list, oddly, the WW2 F4U-4 has perfect boxes. 

Which means that I induced the issue on the KAW ones. I'll get on those as soon as I can! Thanks for pointing them out

[Do335 382]

Wrench:

check Wings over Korea pack. I fine tuned the hitboxes on all objects (planes as well as ships and tanks and infantry and whatnot.. plus component hierarchy)

Strictly speaking it's a bad idea to use bounding box as hit box. For example, a swept wing, while having the same volume as a straight wing, will have a much larger bounding box. so it's best to "eye" them (...then test/shoot at them... then eye them again... erhm...) iirc the corsair's gull wing was tricky, it was slanted so i got it too thick initially and even the Mig-15's 37mm couldn't properly kill it. Then the thing with big bombers is they're so big, internal volume no longer is the best way to define their toughness....

-- thankfully Korea theater doesn't contain too many planes.... and this is a single player modding game. I cringe at a complete ww2 theater + Multiplayer PvP!....

Edited September 1, 2017 by Do335

[Wrench 9,854]

indeed, I was hoping you'd weigh in on this thread!

like we said above, bounding boxes are good starting point, but many definately need to be eyeballed in (example: engines --> the "cowl" bounding box is always too large, and you need to shrink it in to get the box INside the actual cowling).

Swept wings are problematic as the damn boxes are always rectangular; it's a pity we can't them to actually fit the shape

But I've found SOOOOOO many with just oddball flaws -- fuel tank boxes 1/2 meter BELOW the aircraft!! or all tail surfaces one side!

I also worry about increasing vulnerability of the aircraft to enemy fire -- we all know many (most?) guns are a bit overmodeled.

 

like in the image below, I'm really afraid to even go near the sabres -- I like them too much!! (lol!)

 

[+Crusader 2,101]

One of the most "funniest" hitboxes of a stock game id the B-52 tailgunner.. the box is about 20 or so meter behind the tail .. and the kite has problems with the engine boxes

and the fuselage too, iirc.

And yes, I consider the bounding box values just a point to start with hit boxes

I take a look at a stock jet similar to the one I want to fix/mod and the boxes on it, to have some consistency.

 

[Do335 382]

 

1 hour ago, Wrench said:

But I've found SOOOOOO many with just oddball flaws -- fuel tank boxes 1/2 meter BELOW the aircraft!! or all tail surfaces one side!

heck even Tk's have some errors in the datas. Especially the early titles. I think the ones in Exp1/2 are quite good.

[Wrench 9,854]

 the stock A-1 Skyraiders are pretty good, with the exception (like Otto said) of the pilot hit box. Nice safe place for it, in front of the propeller!!! 

[+Coupi 4,395]

Hello,

Very interesting! 

I've tested this one... Is it the good adjustment to do?

Best regards,

Coupi