New Aircraft

[+VonS 1,424]

Included below is the final/polished ver. of the FM (data ini) for the Junkers J.I - flight characteristics similar as in the previous data ini, but with a few important changes, indicated below:

- alt. table data nos. have now been re-tweaked, with a more subtle power drop as alt. increases above 1000 m; over-compressed throttle is now at about 82-3% throttle and above

- slightly improved alpha/lift nos. for top and bottom wings; also included lift nos. for left/right stabs since they were missing for those entries

- reduced damping/bouncing effect nos. for the tailskid and left/right wheels, so that the Junkers sits more effectively on the ground (with no negative Gs popping up at times with engine off)

- top speed near SL at about 80% throttle now around 175 kph (with full over-compressed throttle around 176-7 kph - negligible difference)

- top speed at full throttle around 2000 m alt. is now around 156-7 kph (close to historical)

- good climbs now possible as low as about 120 kph (previously would stall/sink if speeds dropped below about 135 kph)

- stalls now happen below about 90 kph at normal throttle, and below about 80 kph at full over-compressed throttle (more realistic considering the thick airfoils); stalls are now also slightly more mushy and manageable

- wing vibrations still present when approaching stall speed, also in high-speed dives/maneuvers; otherwise not noticeable in normal flight envelope

- top practical ceiling is now around 2800 m alt. (800 m increase over previous data ini), with top speeds at that alt. in the 110s kph at best (have therefore pegged the max. theoretical ceiling at 3000 m alt. now; I am now convinced that the 4000 m alt. number sometimes recorded for this Junkers was largely "projected performance")

- use over-compressed (full) throttle for quicker take-offs, then drop throttle back down to about 80%

- take-offs are good around 130 kph; landings are good at around 110-120 kph; for landings, come in with engine at idle, and prepare beforehand since the Junkers has lots of momentum and takes a while to slow down

- loops only to be attempted at higher/safer alts.; there is a small risk of stalling and beginning to drop inverted, at the top of loops, so give yourself enough alt. to drop the nose and gain speed again

- feel free to use full over-compressed throttle at alts. above about 1500 m (below that it's largely useless for top speed, although it helps somewhat with steeper climbs at lower alts.)

Von S 

 

EDIT: FM data ini file now removed. See the relevant Breguet and Junkers packages near the top of page 26 of this thread.

Edited September 13, 2021 by VonS
Removed file. See the relevant packages near the top of page 26 of this thread.

[Crawford 570]

16 hours ago, Wilches said:

Would be great to add this downward firing guns. Could be as "Gun Pod". 

These are not machine guns.  This 'organ' was never installed on serial J.1 aircraft. Only on the J.816 / 17 aeroplane was experimented with installing a battery in the fuselage floor with two LMG 08/15 Spandau machine guns at an angle of 45 from  for firing at ground targets, but the additional guns remained at the experimental level.

Besides, it doesn't matter at all in FE. If only because gunners do not know how to fire at ground targets.

[Wilches 1,172]

43 minutes ago, Crawford said:

These are not machine guns.  This 'organ' was never installed on serial J.1 aircraft. Only on the J.816 / 17 aeroplane was experimented with installing a battery in the fuselage floor with two LMG 08/15 Spandau machine guns at an angle of 45 from  for firing at ground targets, but the additional guns remained at the experimental level.

Besides, it doesn't matter at all in FE. If only because gunners do not know how to fire at ground targets.

Nice to know. Just drop the idea. Thanks!!!:)

[Silberpfeil 363]

Thanks for the FM, VonS - my reconnaissance version flies just like a big truck!

[Wilches 1,172]

My Junkers J-1 is here! All new files and FM by Von S (it flies thanks to him). I did the skins and some other mods. Please, read the text inside for credits and important details. Beware it´s for FE2 only! Sorry!! Place your impressions here please!!

https://easyupload.io/e5kyye

password -    j1new

[Crawford 570]

On 01.02.2021 at 7:47 PM, Wilches said:

My Junkers J-1 is here! All new files and FM by Von S (it flies thanks to him).

 Thank you, the job is really, really good. The plane flies and handles well.

But it still has a weirdly implemented fuel leak (or coolant leak?) -- а white cloud runs ahead of the airplane ))

[Silberpfeil 363]

I saw that a couple times as I was adjusting some basic data.ini numbers during test flights.  Note the "Y" values for the fuel tank's MinExtentPosition/MaxExtentPosition.  Not really sure if this is the solution to the problem, but I changed these to have the WingFuelTank included within the Fuselage and haven't had that "forward-looking" leak occur since those revisions. 

[Crawford 570]

20 hours ago, Silberpfeil said:

I saw that a couple times as I was adjusting some basic data.ini numbers during test flights.  Note the "Y" values for the fuel tank's MinExtentPosition/MaxExtentPosition.  Not really sure if this is the solution to the problem, but I changed these to have the WingFuelTank included within the Fuselage and haven't had that "forward-looking" leak occur since those revisions. 

Apparently, the aircraft, FM of which was taken as the basis for creating FM for J.1, had a gas tank located there. And these data were simply forgotten to change, in relation to the new model.

[+VonS 1,424]

On 2/4/2021 at 5:09 AM, Crawford said:

Apparently, the aircraft, FM of which was taken as the basis for creating FM for J.1, had a gas tank located there. And these data were simply forgotten to change, in relation to the new model.

As far as I remember, the Blackburn Baffin data ini was used by Geezer to get the initial Junkers model into the air - so it's possible that the coordinates of some of the internal components (gas tank, etc.) were never changed to reflect the new 3-d model of the Junkers, as it was being developed. Node names and min/max extension nos. never received a look-over on the Breguet and Junkers since the original packages were abandoned/postponed sometime in late 2018. (The emitter position for the engine exhaust stack on the Junkers is correct, by the way, and can be tested by switching to something like tracer fire for the exhaust emitter entry.)

EDIT: Both the Junkers and Breguet were largely left in "early beta" stage by Geezer and were released as such, as indicated in the OP where the files were made available publicly, and as per info. included in that post - so definitely users should tweak the package as per taste and if they notice any oddities on the models that were not caught while the aircraft were being developed. Many thanks to Wilches for the excellent skins and for node name and other fixes post-release, to the data inis. (I have since removed the files from the OP - those interested in flying the Junkers and Breguet are recommended to download Wilches' refined packages instead. Also, FE2 fliers are recommended to see the separate data ini on the previous page of this thread for the Liberty-powered Breguet that Wilches has also kindly released.)

Happy flying all,

Von S

Edited May 28, 2021 by VonS
Added important info. Also see original post regarding "Geezer's Early Beta" package on the previous page of this thread.

[Wilches 1,172]

Not to mention the nodes names! They're all scrambled in the original. I had to fix them all one by one.

[Silberpfeil 363]

Finally got an opportunity to put the Breguet 14 B.2 through its paces, and noting the excellent work on resurrecting this model by Wilches, VonS, Heck, and others, offer a few DATA.INI changes for your interest. Please remember to back up your originals before incorporating any of these:

[Gunner] Position=0.0,-2.2,0.8 MinExtentPosition=-0.4,-2.7,0.6 MaxExtentPosition=0.4,-1.8,1.0 PitchModelNodeName=Gunner YawModelNodeName=GunRing

[InternalGun1] MuzzlePosition=-0.575,0.25,0.3 LightPosition=-0.575,0.25,0.3 MinExtentPosition=-0.7,-0.9,0.2 MaxExtentPosition=-0.4,0.4,0.5

[Tailgun1] MuzzlePosition=-0.1,-1.2,0.975 LightPosition=-0.1,-1.1,0.975 MinExtentPosition=0.3,-2.7,0.6 MaxExtentPosition=0.4,-1.8,1.0

[Tailgun2] MuzzlePosition=0.1,-1.2,0.975 LightPosition=0.1,-1.1,0.975 MinExtentPosition=-0.3,-2.7,0.6 MaxExtentPosition=-0.4,-1.8,1.0

[Eugene2 327]

Work In Progress. New photorealistic skin for new Breguet 14 B.2.

[Wilches 1,172]

I knew you gonna make it! Amazing job as ever! Hope you paint the early yellow linen ones.

[Eugene2 327]

Work In Progress. Early linen skin for Breguet 14 B.2.

[Crawford 570]

Hi!

If there are still comrades here that the great and terrible Caesar capun did not have time to ban, I bring to their attention that something interesting on our topic has appeared on the A-Team Scunkworks website. True, this is only Beta Models, but this is not a big problem. By themselves, the models look pretty good (you can feel Geezer's hand)

…and these ribbed wings - I just love them!

 

http://cplengineeringllc.com/SFP1/

In addition, there are a number of propeller-driven airplanes from the inter-World War period (in Pre-WW2 Planes section). It looks like Geezer has shared some of his work with capun.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Crawford

[Silberpfeil 363]

I concur - in some cases their collaboration is fairly evident.

Writing of another offering from the same source, I've been working on the Caudron R.XI and bringing that into one of my FE2 installs in its original role as an escort fighter.  Original skin is shown in upper right with some other WIP variants also shown:

[Wilches 1,172]

Did anyone has a good cockpit to fit on R-11?

[Crawford 570]

3 hours ago, Wilches said:

Did anyone has a good cockpit to fit on R-11?

If my memory serves me, Geezer himself did something like this, but, it seems, did not finish it ... In the end, we are all a bit modders here and know how to screw any cockpit to the airplane we are interested in ... True, I didn't specifically do this, because by convictions I am a fighter, not a bomber. In the sense that R.11 is for me a cart or target, not a fighter

Edited March 13, 2021 by Crawford

[Wilches 1,172]

An oxcart indeed!!

[Heck 496]

23 hours ago, Crawford said:

If my memory serves me, Geezer himself did something like this, but, it seems, did not finish it ... In the end, we are all a bit modders here and know how to screw any cockpit to the airplane we are interested in ... True, I didn't specifically do this, because by convictions I am a fighter, not a bomber. In the sense that R.11 is for me a cart or target, not a fighter

Chaffeur pour les artilleurs. Probably not a good translation, but it captures the idea behind this plane.

[Crawford 570]

34 minutes ago, Heck said:

Chaffeur pour les artilleurs. Probably not a good translation, but it captures the idea behind this plane

Yes, you are absolutely right. The R.XI is, as it were, what was later called a "long-range escort fighter", a kind "cruiser" (in naval terminology), "an aircraft for gaining air superiority." Let's not forget that in those days (up to the WW2) the concept of the "big fighter" was alive. Indeed, many two-seater planes of that time could practically compete on an equal footing with single-seater hunters.

[jeanba 1,920]

12 hours ago, Crawford said:

Yes, you are absolutely right. The R.XI is, as it were, what was later called a "long-range escort fighter", a kind "cruiser" (in naval terminology), "an aircraft for gaining air superiority." Let's not forget that in those days (up to the WW2) the concept of the "big fighter" was alive. Indeed, many two-seater planes of that time could practically compete on an equal footing with single-seater hunters.

 

The RXI had 2 purposes :

1- Long range reconnaissance

2- Long range escort

And approximatly the same number of missions were performed in both roles.

Indeed, with the Caudron R4 and the Letord Family (let alone the Salmson Moineau), the French developed a concept for escorting recon planes (Farman F40 / Caudron G4 ...) with heavy "fighters".

With the Letord (1917), the planes became "dual role" as they could carry the necessary material for long range reconnaissance (and artillery spotting too), as it was found that for close escort, having two planes of the same type was better.

The purpose of those planes was not exaclty air superiority in the sens that it did not maneuver agressivly, they had to be a "wall" between the ennemy fighters and the planes they were protecting.

 

Contrary to some saying, the plane was heavily employed and losses were significant.

They often resorted on the help of Spad 13 for those missions : very often, the escorting R11 "bought time" for the Spad to arrive.

Edited March 15, 2021 by jeanba

[Crawford 570]

11 minutes ago, jeanba said:

The RXI had 2 purposes :

1- Long range reconnaissance

2- Long range escort

Quite right. I don't argue with that. In addition, in this case, I was talking about analogies that are distant in time, and not about the actual specification. So, for example, many people consider German J-class planes to be "attack aircraft", although they were not. Or the Russian "Ilya Muromets" de facto was also considered a long-range scout, although it could be used as a middle bomber ))

 

[jeanba 1,920]

It is very hard to compare WWI and WWII, first because during WWI, the majority of air activity was about reconnaissance and Artillery Spotting (ie conduct mission / prevent the nemy ...), much less about bombing (even at the end of the war).

Also, performances comparisons did not depend on aircraft role but also on generation (which means during wwI 6 months).

Add to this that  doctrine was at its infancy and was going in all directions : that is what makes comparisons difficult, but fascinating too

[jeanba 1,920]

Another interesting fcat about the Caudron RXI and its predecessor (The Letord) : One pilot (captitaine Abel) was able to perform a fiull loop starting from 50 m altitude above the ground !