Is this a stupid idea?

[Heck 496]

I don't know if this would be possible, but could an artillery piece be turned into a simple effects emitter? I'll look in the knowledge base to see if there's any information on effects emitters, since effects can be tied to objects, or course. I would need two emitters. The artillery battery emitter, and the artillery barrage emitter, which would have to be timed to work together. If we can't have artillery that can fire beyond line of sight, why couldn't we have the illusion of that? I was flying over Wrench's Korea yesterday, and watching the lighthouses in the distance gave me the idea.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Heck

[+VonS 1,424]

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, and a good idea for extra "atmosphere" in the sim. I remember a few yrs. ago that Stephen implemented some random explosion effects across no man's land - some of those experiments were carried over into the Italian map if I'm not mistaken, and random explosions can be seen when flying across some sectors of the Italian-Austrian front for example, as if a battle is going on in the trenches. I'll have to re-fly the Italian map one of these days since it's been a while - I'm still stuck in late 1917 as a German pilot in the Palestinian theater, but hope to finish soon with missions there and load up a different map, maybe Italy or the Eastern front for a change.

What I'd like to find out is a way to make the trees "solid" in FE2 - similar to how they work in RB3D. Many of the custom airfield objects, such as hangars for example, definitely feel solid when you crash into them and burn, if clumsy while taxiing around the field. Airfield towers, guns, ships, etc., are all solid. Only the trees and observation balloons, and Zeppelins perhaps (will have to double-check those) are hollow.

Von S

[Wrench 9,801]

lack of collision meshes on TOD objects, would be my guess. None of them are "really there" on any map in any of the games.

as to the lighthouse, I know Stary built the "beam" as a self illuminating tga, 

 

[+gterl 1,204]

don't mix up things

- Lighthouse is a LOD with moving parts (like flags and other objects), e.g. programmed into the LOD/3D object

- Emitters would be nice and can be done (just an effect without further 'actions' attached to it), e.g. purely visual

- Random explosions are not 'random' per se. On the italian map these are two barracks close together with a specific explosion/destruction effect AND inside these two barack objects is a machine-gun firing at the aircraft flying above...the bullets hit the barracks in the first place and destroys them...thus creating an explosion (old IL2 trick)

[+quack74 329]

I was working on this a couple of months ago. I used a destroyed truck .LOD as the main object set as Artillery. I changed the accuracy of the gun so it would fire all over the place at short range to stay within "No-Mans-Land". I placed infantry objects all around certain areas so the new "Artillery" would have something to shoot at. It does work but for some reason only sometimes. I would fly over an area and could see random artillery explosions. The problem is the new artillery object seemed to be firing on the nearest AAA objects. Not the infantry I placed around. And most missions there wouldn't be any action at all. Cant figure out why since the artillery object and infantry are permanently on the map for every mission. Also I removed the gun fire and sound from the new Destroyed Truck .LOD object. So all you hear or see is the secondary explosions. It is very cool to see. looks as if there is a battle down below. I placed several new artillery objects around so there would be a lot more explosions. they never hit anything. Which is good. I have been able to work on it any further. Too busy lately. But it does work.

[Heck 496]

2 hours ago, quack74 said:

I was working on this a couple of months ago. I used a destroyed truck .LOD as the main object set as Artillery. I changed the accuracy of the gun so it would fire all over the place at short range to stay within "No-Mans-Land". I placed infantry objects all around certain areas so the new "Artillery" would have something to shoot at. It does work but for some reason only sometimes. I would fly over an area and could see random artillery explosions. The problem is the new artillery object seemed to be firing on the nearest AAA objects. Not the infantry I placed around. And most missions there wouldn't be any action at all. Cant figure out why since the artillery object and infantry are permanently on the map for every mission. Also I removed the gun fire and sound from the new Destroyed Truck .LOD object. So all you hear or see is the secondary explosions. It is very cool to see. looks as if there is a battle down below. I placed several new artillery objects around so there would be a lot more explosions. they never hit anything. Which is good. I have been able to work on it any further. Too busy lately. But it does work.

Hi, Quack. I was thinking of avoiding "real" artillery in this mod. I used real guns and infantry in my ancient Active Battlefield mod. It was a grind to get them all placed to see each other, and when I did they often had all destroyed each other before I got there on a mission. So, I armored them and made them extraordinarily bad shots. They would survive, but that created a new problem. The game tracks every shot, so your event log would wind up two miles long, and full of "77mm dummy fired at Stationary Brit Inf," over and over again. After I finish the ini call outs for Geezer's fortifications, I'm going to try to learn how to do this. I want to create two objects using "borrowed" LODs. One, artillery that can be placed using Mue's editor, and the other, the target, using the destroyed LODs from the original terrains mixed with maybe your smoking craters, which, again, can be placed using Mue's Target Editor. This way we can have the guns a few miles away from what they're shelling. Flying over, you'd be able to see both ends of a medium range barrage. That's the idea I'm going for. The only issue I can foresee using borrowed artillery is that all the models were created as direct line of sight weapons, so their barrels are at a low angle, rather than at a high angle, as if they're firing at targets a few miles away. Still, I think it's better than the empty brown swath we have as a front now. Another idea was to have a sniper emitter, an emitter that would be placed directly on TK's painted trench lines that would give off the flash of a sniper rifle intermittently, which would be one thing you'd see on most days as you flew over the front. On most days, everyone kept their heads down, except for the unlucky few, that's what this emitter would simulate.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Heck
more thoughts...

[Heck 496]

5 hours ago, gterl said:

don't mix up things

- Lighthouse is a LOD with moving parts (like flags and other objects), e.g. programmed into the LOD/3D object

- Emitters would be nice and can be done (just an effect without further 'actions' attached to it), e.g. purely visual

- Random explosions are not 'random' per se. On the italian map these are two barracks close together with a specific explosion/destruction effect AND inside these two barack objects is a machine-gun firing at the aircraft flying above...the bullets hit the barracks in the first place and destroys them...thus creating an explosion (old IL2 trick)

So, what you're saying is I would need two things to create this illusion of a battery firing. I'd need the guns as an object, and an emitter placed with them to give them the illusion of firing?

[+VonS 1,424]

Stimulating thoughts gents' - have now checked a previous post and indeed "TOD objects are non-collidable and there is nothing" Mue can do about it, as he wrote there:

Didn't notice those posts until now since they're under the SF2 section.

Happy flying,

Von S

[+Stephen1918 1,474]

I spent quite a while playing with battle fields when I was doing to the Vogesen2 terrain. I was not able build an emitter that would work intermittently. Later, I made some craters that have smoke coming out of them, they work continuously and do add some effects to the battle field.

Gterl and Quack have each figured out a solution. I came up with a third option, so you have a choice (maybe you can mix them.) 

In my experiments, the field guns and infantry would only "see" objects that the game engine places in the terrain. They don't seem to "see" targets placed in the Target.ini. Maybe this is a limit of FE1, I don't know if it's the same in FE2. 

In Vogesen and Galicia, I was able to place an AA gun behind the lines (theTarget.ini defines a location and the game engine picks a gun and places it) The guns from the target.ini see it and shoot at it. (But they don't see enemy infantry and field guns.) With some experimenting you can find a place where it's too far to get hit, but close enough that the other guns see it. The field has to be pretty flat, if there's a hill between them, or if one side is much higher than the other, they don't shoot. I was able to get some pretty active battle fields (check out Vogesen2 and Galicia2.) You see a lot of tracers, and explosions where the field gun shells hit the ground.

I made a rail mounted artillery gun  and Geezer made some artillery guns. Those will shoot at a balloon, so they will be elevated when they shoot. Again, you need to experiment with distance and placement of the enemy balloon before the guns will see it, but not be able to hit it. You'll see the guns shooting, but the explosions where the shells hit are quite a distance away and you may not even see them.

For Collisions, Wrench is right, the things placed in the tod don't detect a collision. (this includes the trees and most of the city and farm  buildings.) This is built into the game engine and can't be changed. Things placed in the Target.ini will detect a collision. In the Types.ini, some objects declare a "CollisionMesh" (which is an LOD.) But not all of them do, so I don't know if you need to have one or if it uses the original mesh unless another one is specified .

Edited November 9, 2017 by Stephen1918

[Heck 496]

Yes, Stephen, it was your smoking craters that started me thinking about this in the first place, along with the light emitter from the lighthouses in Korea. My mind often puts disparate things together; it's part of the psychosis. Then again, these juxtaposed things often don't work together, and that's probably the case here, because of the way the game engine works. One odd thing I noticed using Mue's Cat extractor, FE2 seems to contain all the effects from SF, but they may be turned off in FE2. It''ll be interesting to see if they are. Time to break a few eggs.

[Heck 496]

You had no idea that the USAS possessed such weapons in 1917. But, yes, SF2 afterburner effects work in FE2.

 

[+Geezer 3,569]

Dunno if this helps, but Gepard put together a pack of SF1 effects and functions that also work in FE1:

 

I took all files i have modified in First Eagles and put in in this little package. (I hope that i have found all so far.) The only thing you must do is to extract this files in a First Eagles installation. I suggest, that you make a special install for WW2 amd call the new gamefolder "First Eagles WW2".

After unzip my files in you FE WW2 installation you must still copy the speechfiles from WoX in the speech folder of FE WW2.

The nations.ini which i use is a modified WoE file. I know, that it cause some anomalies in debriefing screen. This has still to be solved. Perhaps i must take an original FE nations ini and modify it. There is something to do.

Be aware, this mod is for First Eagles first generation. I have no FE2, thatswhy i cant tell you, wheter it will run with FE2.

First Eagles WW2.zip

 

Below is a sample list of control functions that are dormant in FE1.  They can be enabled by dropping the listings into a newly created CONTROLS folder, providing working flaps, landing gear, radio, etc.

[ControlSet001]
EXIT_FLIGHT=ESCAPE
QUIT_GAME=ALT+Q
PAUSE_FLIGHT=ALT+P
TIME_COMPRESSION=ALT+T
NORMAL_TIME=ALT+R
CHANGE_TIME=ALT+C
SKIP_TO_NEXT=ALT+N
RADIO_COMM=TAB
CHAT_ALL=GRAVE
CHAT_ENEMY=SHIFT+GRAVE
CHAT_FRIENDLY=CTRL+GRAVE
CHAT_TARGET=ALT+GRAVE
AUTO_PILOT=A
WING_LEVELER=SHIFT+A
NEXT_WAYPOINT=W
PREV_WAYPOINT=SHIFT+W
MAP=M
SCREEN_SHOT=PRINTSCREEN
DEBUG_TOGGLE=CTRL+H
GOTO_COCKPIT_FRONT_VIEW=F1
GOTO_COCKPIT_LEFT_VIEW=F2
GOTO_COCKPIT_RIGHT_VIEW=F3
GOTO_COCKPIT_UP_VIEW=SHIFT+F1
GOTO_VIEW_PADLOCK=F4
TOGGLE_COCKPIT=NUMPADPERIOD
SNAP_VIEW_FRONT=NUMPAD8
SNAP_VIEW_FRONT_RIGHT=NUMPAD9
SNAP_VIEW_RIGHT=NUMPAD6
SNAP_VIEW_REAR_RIGHT=NUMPAD3
SNAP_VIEW_REAR_LEFT=NUMPAD1
SNAP_VIEW_LEFT=NUMPAD4
SNAP_VIEW_FRONT_LEFT=NUMPAD7
SNAP_VIEW_UP=NUMPAD5
SNAP_VIEW_DOWN=NUMPAD0
GOTO_VIEW_SHOULDER=F5
GOTO_VIEW_OBJECT_NEXT=F6
GOTO_VIEW_OBJECT_PREV=SHIFT+F6
GOTO_VIEW_GROUND_OBJECT_NEXT=F7
GOTO_VIEW_GROUND_OBJECT_PREV=SHIFT+F7
GOTO_VIEW_TARGET=F8
GOTO_VIEW_PLAYER_TO_TARGET=SHIFT+F8
GOTO_VIEW_TARGET_TO_PLAYER=CTRL+F8
GOTO_VIEW_WEAPON=F9
GOTO_VIEW_PLAYER_TO_WEAPON=SHIFT+F9
GOTO_VIEW_WEAPON_TO_PLAYER=CTRL+F9
GOTO_VIEW_FLYBY=F10
GOTO_VIEW_FLYBY_PREV=SHIFT+F10
GOTO_VIEW_TOWER=F11
GOTO_VIEW_TOWER_PREV=SHIFT+F11
GOTO_VIEW_ACTION_CAM=F12
GOTO_FREE_VIEW=CTRL+F12
CAMERA_PITCH_UP=JOYSTICK01_POV01_UP
CAMERA_PITCH_DOWN=JOYSTICK01_POV01_DOWN
CAMERA_YAW_RIGHT=JOYSTICK01_POV01_RIGHT
CAMERA_YAW_LEFT=JOYSTICK01_POV01_LEFT
CAMERA_ZOOM_IN=MOUSE_BUTTON01
CAMERA_ZOOM_OUT=MOUSE_BUTTON02
CAMERA_PITCH_AXIS=MOUSE_Y-AXIS
CAMERA_YAW_AXIS=MOUSE_X-AXIS
CAMERA_ZOOM_CONTROL=
PITCH_UP=DOWNARROW
PITCH_DOWN=UPARROW
ROLL_RIGHT=RIGHTARROW
ROLL_LEFT=LEFTARROW
YAW_RIGHT=PERIOD
YAW_LEFT=COMMA
THROTTLE_UP=EQUALS
THROTTLE_DOWN=MINUS
THRUST_VECTOR_UP=CTRL+EQUALS
THRUST_VECTOR_DOWN=CTRL+MINUS
FLAPS_DOWN=F
FLAPS_UP=V
AIRBRAKES_TOGGLE=S
WHEELBRAKES_TOGGLE=B
LANDING_GEARS_TOGGLE=G
ARRESTER_HOOK_TOGGLE=H
CYCLE_NAV_LIGHT=CTRL+L
DRAG_CHUTE=CTRL+B
EJECT=ALT+B
PITCH_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_Y-AXIS
YAW_CONTROL=
ROLL_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_X-AXIS
THROTTLE_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_U-AXIS
THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL=
NEXT_AA_WEAPONS=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON03
PREV_AA_WEAPONS=SHIFT+BACKSPACE
NEXT_AG_WEAPONS=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON04
PREV_AG_WEAPONS=SHIFT+BACKSLASH
FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON01
FIRE_SECONDARY_GUN=
FIRE_WEAPON=JOYSTICK01_BUTTON02
UNJAM_GUN=SHIFT+JOYSTICK01_BUTTON03
OPEN_BOMBBAY_DOOR=CTRL+O
DROP_TANKS=CTRL+D
JETTISON_STORES=CTRL+J
NEXT_RIPPLE_QUANTITY=RBRACKET
PREV_RIPPLE_QUANTITY=SHIFT+RBRACKET
NEXT_RIPPLE_INTERVAL=LBRACKET
PREV_RIPPLE_INTERVAL=SHIFT+LBRACKET
NEXT_HUD_MODE=APOSTROPHE
PREV_HUD_MODE=SHIFT+APOSTROPHE
NEXT_GUNGROUP=SEMICOLON
PREV_GUNGROUP=SHIFT+SEMICOLON
CHAFF=C
FLARE=X
ECM_TOGGLE=Z
TOGGLE_RADAR=CTRL+PGUP
NEXT_RADAR_MODE=PGUP
PREV_RADAR_MODE=SHIFT+PGUP
NEXT_RADAR_RANGE=PGDN
PREV_RADAR_RANGE=SHIFT+PGDN
SELECT_NEXT_RADAR_TARGET=HOME
SELECT_PREV_RADAR_TARGET=SHIFT+HOME
ACQUIRE_RADAR_TARGET=INSERT
ACQUIRE_VISUAL_TARGET_ON_RADAR=SHIFT+INSERT
REJECT_RADAR_TARGET=DELETE
SELECT_CLOSEST_CENTER=NUMPADSTAR
SELECT_TARGET=T
SELECT_PREV_TARGET=SHIFT+T
SELECT_CLOSEST_TARGET=CTRL+T
SELECT_FRIENDLY=Y
SELECT_PREV_FRIENDLY=SHIFT+Y
SELECT_CLOSEST_FRIENDLY=CTRL+Y
SELECT_GROUND=E
SELECT_PREV_GROUND=SHIFT+E
SELECT_CLOSEST_GROUND=CTRL+E
SELECT_LAST_RADIO=R
SELECT_LAST_RADIO_CALLER=SHIFT+R
SELECT_RADAR_TARGET=CTRL+R
SELECT_WAYPOINT=CTRL+W
DESELECT_TARGET=
ANIMATION_1=
ANIMATION_2=
ANIMATION_3=
ANIMATION_4=
ANIMATION_5=
ANIMATION_6=
ANIMATION_7=
ANIMATION_8=
ANIMATION_9=
ANIMATION_10=

[ControlSet002]
FIRE_PRIMARY_GUN=SPACE
FIRE_WEAPON=RETURN

[RangedControl001]
AxisControl=PITCH_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=PITCH_DOWN
DecreaseControl=PITCH_UP
CenterControl=

[RangedControl002]
AxisControl=YAW_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=YAW_RIGHT
DecreaseControl=YAW_LEFT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl003]
AxisControl=ROLL_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=2.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=ROLL_RIGHT
DecreaseControl=ROLL_LEFT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl004]
AxisControl=THROTTLE_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=0.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=0.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=THROTTLE_UP
DecreaseControl=THROTTLE_DOWN
CenterControl=

[RangedControl005]
AxisControl=CAMERA_PITCH_AXIS
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=0.200000
UseMouseRate=TRUE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=FALSE
SelfCenterRate=50.000000
KeyControlRate=2.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=CAMERA_PITCH_DOWN
DecreaseControl=CAMERA_PITCH_UP
CenterControl=

[RangedControl006]
AxisControl=CAMERA_YAW_AXIS
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=0.250000
UseMouseRate=TRUE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=FALSE
SelfCenterRate=50.000000
KeyControlRate=2.500000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=CAMERA_YAW_RIGHT
DecreaseControl=CAMERA_YAW_LEFT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl007]
AxisControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=-1000.000000
DeadZone=0.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=FALSE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=FALSE
SelfCenterRate=100.000000
KeyControlRate=5.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_IN
DecreaseControl=CAMERA_ZOOM_OUT
CenterControl=

[RangedControl008]
AxisControl=THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL
MaxValue=1000.000000
MinValue=0.000000
DeadZone=10.000000
Saturation=100.000000
ReverseJoystick=TRUE
MouseScale=1.000000
UseMouseRate=FALSE
ReverseMouse=FALSE
LimitValue=TRUE
SelfCenterRate=0.000000
KeyControlRate=1.000000
AllowKeyControl=TRUE
IncreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_UP
DecreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_DOWN
CenterControl=

 

[+quack74 329]

Here is what my "ghost" artillery looks like. Lots of explosions without the gun fire effects and gun fire sounds. only the explosions and dirt spikes.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by quack74

[+Geezer 3,569]

Quack74:  Your effects look great. 

In the real world, artillery is often so distant that muzzle flashes cannot be seen except at high altitude.  In terms of realistic ambience, you are definitely on the right track!

[Heck 496]

Quack, that is exactly one of the effects I am talking about. Perfect. 

[+Geezer 3,569]

7 hours ago, Heck said:

Quack, that is exactly one of the effects I am talking about. Perfect. 

Yes!  Also, Stephen1918 developed some nice ambience effects with his smoking craters.  Perhaps Steve's and Quack's stuff can be combined?

 

[+quack74 329]

Here is one more Vid. Sometimes the effect doesn't show. I'm still testing and trying to figure out when it shows and why. but when it shows its a very cool realistic feel when flying over the front. I can place the "ghost artillery all over the front.

 

[+quack74 329]

I have destroyed buildings in the distance that have small fires and smoke also. I scattered them all around the front as well

[+Geezer 3,569]

If you guys are able to develop these bits and pieces into a comprehensive "ambience" mod, I am willing to make some ground objects to go with it.  For example, heavy artillery has not been modeled much - most guns are in the field artillery class.  Heavy artillery would be so far back from the trenches that there would be no visual conflict with distant explosions in no man's land.  Also, they would add to the list of targets - either emplaced or in transport.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Geezer

[Heck 496]

Couldn't you make them as terrain pieces and misc target types? Quack's smoking craters are going into all my installs as soon as possible, even if they act only at random. I'm a dummy to have missed them. Sorry, Quack. Like I wondered in my original question, if Geezer created these guns to have a fixed high elevation, could they be placed as terrain objects, not ground objects, using Mue's editor, and be assigned an effects emitter at the barrel for a flash and smoke? Even if they worked only at random, like Quack's smoking craters, it would be cool. Some batteries would be firing, some not. Seems like it could be cool, if it could be done.

[+Geezer 3,569]

I suggest you guys experiment with existing guns, craters, buildings, etc.  If you come up with something that looks good, then I'll make some new 3D models - either as ground objects or terrain objects.  So long as they are static, not dynamic, it makes no difference to me.