+Coupi 4,394 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) Hello, Please, Could you tell me that they are the units of measurement used in the data.ini file of the aircraft ? Mainly I think about the flight characteristic data ! Identifying them is not obvious... Thank you, Coupi. Edited March 3, 2019 by Coupi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+acesfakia 1,198 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) Be more specific....!! One photo is like 1000...word's..... What they are or where they are ? Why they are used in the data.ini file of the aircraft ? or where is the line..with them ? Is the real measurement ....or ...1/72 scale...? The Game fly/uses the plane like ''real'....or.....simulate ...close to them...so need the meter's ? Or where are they ..and why .......? ? For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part like this Fuselage ....above ! I think you are looking ...this dimension's.... Edited March 3, 2019 by acesfakia 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Coupi 4,394 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, acesfakia said: Be more specific....!! One photo is like 1000...word's..... What they are or where they are ? Why they are used in the data.ini file of the aircraft ? or where is the line..with them ? Is the real measurement ....or ...1/72 scale...? The Game fly/uses the plane like ''real'....or.....simulate ...close to them...so need the meter's ? Or where are they ..and why .......? ? For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part like this Fuselage ....above ! I think you are looking ...this dimension's.... Hello, Many thanks !!! Ok for the dimensions : the meter is used. This morning I had a look and I think that the kilo is used for the weights. For speeds and ranges, this should be the kilometer. And about the performance data ? CLa, Cmq, Cmad, data tables, etc... difficult for me to imagine their purpose ! Best regards, Coupi. Edited March 3, 2019 by Coupi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+acesfakia 1,198 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) The Game use Feet and Meter....etc...! The 3d max..also ...use both so you can built your model. etc... Speed also both. CLa and Cmq ..... I think is for aerodynamic Mach tables ... !! Example if you change the ...CLa and Cmq Mach tables for the stabilazer...you will...turn ..like ..UFO...if you want...or something like that. I think ...Caesar here was make something..like ..that change's ... CLa and Cmq !!!! RCS and IR entry = presume reduces the radar and heat signatures of the plane stealth... FastCargo explained it in this BaseRCSModifier=0.0000005 HeatSignatureModifier=0.0010 ===================================CLa, Cmq, Cmad, data tables, etc..================================================= and from ....... Fubar512 .................. CL0 Lift coefficient at zero angle of attack (AOA) CLa Lift coefficient due to AOA CD0 Zero-lift drag coefficient CDL Drag coefficient due to lift (induced drag effect) Cmq Pitching moment due to pitch rate (pitch damping) Cmad Pitching moment due to AOA rate (aero interaction between wings and horiz tail) Cyb Side force due to sideslip Cyp Side force due to roll rate Cyr Side force due to yaw rate Clb Roll moment due to sideslip Clp Roll moment due to roll rate (roll damping) Clr Roll moment due to yaw rate Cnb Yaw moment due to sideslip Cnp Yaw moment due to roll rate Cnr Yaw moment due to yaw rate (yaw damping) CLiftdc Lift due to control surface deflection CDdc Drag due to control surface deflection Cydc Side force due to control surface deflection Cldc Roll moment due to control surface deflection Cmdc Pitch moment due to control surface deflection Cndc Yaw moment due to control surface deflection DeltaStallAlpha Increase in max angle-of-attack before stall Xac X-location of aerodynamic center Ymac=Mean Area Chord at "Y" axis Edited March 3, 2019 by acesfakia 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,851 Posted March 3, 2019 iirc, jet thrust is in Newton Meters; not sure about prop planes --?. also, iirc, fuel weights are kg, for internal tanks. all other physical measurements are Metric. have been since day one. some speed statements MAY be in Meters/Sec (MPS). I think those are the ones in the -FlightData- section at the top. Quote Or where are they ..and why .......? ? For each part from the Model ...Nose,Tail,...etc in the data.ini is diferent .Is the dimension from that part like this Fuselage ....above ! I think you are looking ...this dimension's.... you're taking about individual meshes, and how the interact with each other. In the image below, for the Harrier 1, you can see the blue bounding box, with IS the actual mesh X/Y/Z parameters, and the green Hit box (and the fact they don't even match!! Seen this plenty of time of stock aircraft, too) IIRC this correctly, the Min/Max describes the extents of the bounding box, the actual size of the component. Obviously, the Hit Box (green) is where damage is taken (collision points) From the fuselage section of the 3W Harrier 1: MinExtentPosition=-0.74,-6.68,-1.00 MaxExtentPosition= 0.74, 1.26, 0.97 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00,-6.67,-0.20 CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,-2.61,-0.93 CollisionPoint[003]= 0.00, 1.25, 1.00 CollisionPoint[004]= 0.00,-6.68, 0.70 CollisionPoint[005]= 0.54,-4.98,-0.40 CollisionPoint[006]=-0.54,-4.98,-0.40 as you can see, there IS a tail mesh, but the Fuselage HB has been extended to cover it. Kinda weak, imho. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Cliff7600 1,148 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Coupi said: For speeds and ranges, this should be the kilometer. As Wrench said, speed are in meters per second (Km/h divided by 3,6 = m/s) Not only in the flightdata, but also in deploy and retract values (flaps, landing gear, airbrakes) unless it's Mach values (variable geometry wings, and other stuff) Ceiling is in meters, and range in kilometers (I think...) Fuel in kilograms 1 kg -> 2,2 lbs 1 liter of fuel -> 0.78 kg ("Thirdwire game fuel" density) 1 US gal -> 3.78541 L 1 Imp gal -> 4.546 L and what I like the most is to calculate the hitbox of the fuel tank to keep it within the 3D model while having the right amount of fuel ^^ (MinMaxExtent in meters -> Liters) In fact, metric units all the way in the data.ini files. In the cockpit.ini file it's different, there's both (feet, lbs, knots, nautical miles / meters, kilo, liters, kmph...) and it needs to be specified. Edited March 3, 2019 by Cliff7600 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Cliff7600 1,148 Posted March 4, 2019 Hey, we didn't talk about "massfraction" ! As it is a fraction, there's no unit of measure. It uses the EmptyMass= entry in kilogram. I noticed that the TW model data.ini don't have massfraction value for ONE component, the fuselage. So I guess that each component has its massfraction value and what's left goes to the fuselage. Then, there could be 2 issues : - The total of all massfraction values is not equal to 1 The aircraft will weight more (or less) than the given EmptyMass value. And that's why only ONE component shouldn't have massfraction value, the fuselage. But, the fuselage should also have the right weight, so you have to do the maths and check ALL component weight values (EmptyMass * massfraction = weight in KG). It's easy to find the weight of a J79 jet engine, it's more difficult to guess some other parts (propellers, horizontal stabs...) - There's more than one component that didn't have a massfraction value Then, the fuselage will share its weight with the pitot tube or the pylons deleted from the 3D model... and it will affect the flight model. exemple : Component[010]=RefuelProbe [RefuelProbe] ParentComponentName=Nose ModelNodeName=Refuel_Probe ShowFromCockpit=TRUE MassFraction=0.0 I want to see the refuel probe from the cockpit view, but I don't want the refuel probe to weight 1700 lbs ! or Component[010]=Remove [Remove] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=boîte01 DestroyedNodeName=Boîte01 HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE I wanted to have the antenna deleted from the 3D model, but the game will give the mesh "boîte01" the weight of +6000 lbs luckily, the mesh is on the fuselage, and not at the end of the nose, or worse at a wingtip... My thoughts : Each component must have a mass fraction value, unless there's only ONE left that will take the all the rest of the weight, the fuselage. If you do some editing to make meshes shown or not, be sure the massfraction value is realistic. --------------------------------------- If you change the EmptyMass value, because the C version is heavier than the A, then all massfraction values must be checked. Maybe the stronger airframe will weight more, but if the vertical tail is the same its massfraction value must be adapted. exemple : F-101A EmptyMass=11420.00 [VertTail] ... MassFraction=0.0365 -> 416.83 kg F-101C EmptyMass=11920.00 (+500 kg) [VertTail] ... MassFraction=0.035 -> 417.2 kg If the F-101A and F-101C share the exact same vertical tail, it's Ok (370 grams error) If the F-101C vertical tail is heavier than the F-101A one, then it's wrong. Thanks for reading ! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Coupi 4,394 Posted March 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Cliff7600 said: Hey, we didn't talk about "massfraction" ! As it is a fraction, there's no unit of measure. It uses the EmptyMass= entry in kilogram. I noticed that the TW model data.ini don't have massfraction value for ONE component, the fuselage. So I guess that each component has its massfraction value and what's left goes to the fuselage. Then, there could be 2 issues : - The total of all massfraction values is not equal to 1 The aircraft will weight more (or less) than the given EmptyMass value. And that's why only ONE component shouldn't have massfraction value, the fuselage. But, the fuselage should also have the right weight, so you have to do the maths and check ALL component weight values (EmptyMass * massfraction = weight in KG). It's easy to find the weight of a J79 jet engine, it's more difficult to guess some other parts (propellers, horizontal stabs...) - There's more than one component that didn't have a massfraction value Then, the fuselage will share its weight with the pitot tube or the pylons deleted from the 3D model... and it will affect the flight model. exemple : Component[010]=RefuelProbe [RefuelProbe] ParentComponentName=Nose ModelNodeName=Refuel_Probe ShowFromCockpit=TRUE MassFraction=0.0 I want to see the refuel probe from the cockpit view, but I don't want the refuel probe to weight 1700 lbs ! or Component[010]=Remove [Remove] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=boîte01 DestroyedNodeName=Boîte01 HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE I wanted to have the antenna deleted from the 3D model, but the game will give the mesh "boîte01" the weight of +6000 lbs luckily, the mesh is on the fuselage, and not at the end of the nose, or worse at a wingtip... My thoughts : Each component must have a mass fraction value, unless there's only ONE left that will take the all the rest of the weight, the fuselage. If you do some editing to make meshes shown or not, be sure the massfraction value is realistic. --------------------------------------- If you change the EmptyMass value, because the C version is heavier than the A, then all massfraction values must be checked. Maybe the stronger airframe will weight more, but if the vertical tail is the same its massfraction value must be adapted. exemple : F-101A EmptyMass=11420.00 [VertTail] ... MassFraction=0.0365 -> 416.83 kg F-101C EmptyMass=11920.00 (+500 kg) [VertTail] ... MassFraction=0.035 -> 417.2 kg If the F-101A and F-101C share the exact same vertical tail, it's Ok (370 grams error) If the F-101C vertical tail is heavier than the F-101A one, then it's wrong. Thanks for reading ! Ok ! I didn't know this... many thanks ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+acesfakia 1,198 Posted March 4, 2019 ...οκ ...!!! All....of you , ...you are Great !!! Is somewhere....a ..text document...or something like that.....for person like me...to learn ? How about with photo's/ pic's Like Wrench did it ....... here ? If not...is easy ...someone...expert to make it so we will have it in the DL section ? ? WILL BE GREAT. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,851 Posted March 4, 2019 The image is just a screen cap of Mue's Lod Viewer. One of the best tools EVER invented for this game. and now to muddy the waters further....two words.. EmptyInertia how is THAT figured out, and what does it mean? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+mue 715 Posted March 4, 2019 There is a document for sf1, but I think most also applies to sf2: https://combatace.com/forums/topic/92182-requested-strike-fighter-editing-info-document/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+acesfakia 1,198 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) EmptyInertia= measures the extent to which an object resists rotational acceleration about a particular axis, and is the rotational analogue to mass ? https://books.google.gr/books?id=6gnO9XoeT5cC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=Empty+Inertia&source=bl&ots=i_GsxY3Fvp&sig=ACfU3U3XqYKhCKZ2UUHqeOg2Lk4PXX31NA&hl=el&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji0v6IlungAhXFCewKHdbyB40Q6AEwDXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Empty Inertia&f=false Edited March 4, 2019 by acesfakia EmptyInertia= 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
