Shafrir 1 & Shafrir 2 Missile

[+ravenclaw_007]

i would like to finish my Shafrir missiles and i´m searching for some pictures 

for the Shafrir 2 missile i need some better pictures from the IR seeker , the electrical connector and the nozzle including the weather seal

this is what i have from the ir seeker and the electrical connector

from the nozzle i have only some very dark and very small pictures so anything on the nozzle will be welcome 

this is how the missile looks like now 

 

for the Shafrir 1 i have only very few detail pictures so if you have anything good on that particular missile please send it to me

 

 

 

[+EricJ]

Stuff like this makes me wish I had the patience to learn 3DSMAX, I really do. That's just beautiful either way.

[+dtmdragon]

Shafrir 1

Note the diffrent orientation of front and rear fins and unique launch rail for the Mirage 

 

Edited July 21, 2024 by dtmdragon

[+ravenclaw_007]

6 minutes ago, dtmdragon said:

Shafrir 1

Note the diffrent orientation of front and rear fins and unique launch rail for the Mirage 

oohhh... that is what i´m looking for , thank you so much 

nothing much that i can do about the launch rail , except making new aircraft models by the way the same problem with the Shafrir 2  it has a very unique launch rail with 2 pins that is holding the missile right beside the nozzle

 

this is how the Shafrir 2 launch rail looks like , just in case somebody is working on this aircrafts 

[Svetlin]

[+ravenclaw_007]

Thanks  Svetlin , That is a good picture and was helping me 

changed the seeker based on the picture above

since i´m most likely never find out was is written around the IR seeker i took the liberty to add something my self , i will change it if by any chance i will get the right lettering 

 

[Svetlin]

Hi, the following video contains some close-up shots of the Shafrir 2, though I do not know if that could help from modelling perspective.

 

[+ravenclaw_007]

51 minutes ago, Svetlin said:

Hi, the following video contains some close-up shots of the Shafrir 2, though I do not know if that could help from modelling perspective.

 

thanks , yap i know that video , unfortunately it has a low resolution   

[+ravenclaw_007]

Shafrir 1 missile , since i dont have any picture of the nozzle and only a picture of an empty rear part where the nozzle should be i can't guarantee that my interpretation of the nozzle is correct

still some work to do 

maybe some of our Israeli friends here at CA can help me with some more info and pictures  

Shafrir 1 and Shafrir 2

Shafrir 1 missile 

 

Edited July 23, 2024 by ravenclaw_007

[+EricJ]

A quick Google search didn't find anything though, mainly models of the missile, but they're not detailed enough for use anyway.

[logan4]

This link has an old video showing the Shafrir2 with some close ups. mostly from 0:20-1:20 and after 2:10.

https://cutt.ly/IekY39KF

Edited July 24, 2024 by logan4

[+ravenclaw_007]

i just had some crazy idea , what if i add all the attachment points from the launch rail to the missile , as soon as you launch the missile this attachment points are gone but as long as the missile is on the launch rail they are there

one problem is that TW was using the wrong diameter for the Shafrir-2 they used 150 mm and the missile has 160 mm diameter so the launch rail dimensions are wrong to , i adjusted the rear bracket as good as i could

if there is anew aircraft model with the correct attachment points i can remove them from the missile

[+ravenclaw_007]

3 hours ago, logan4 said:

This link has an old video showing the Shafrir2 with some close ups. mostly from 0:20-1:20 and after 2:10.

https://cutt.ly/IekY39KF

good find 

[+dtmdragon]

On 25/07/2024 at 9:27 AM, ravenclaw_007 said:

here you can try the Shafrir-1 and 2  missiles , let me know if you find any problems with them other than that you can hit a target with the Shafrir-1

Nice work and much appreciated mate. I do wonder if the Shafrir-1 is a bit over sized? It's hard with so little photos but here are a few more that seem to show quite a small missile closer the dimensions of the the stock TW Shafrir-1.

 

Stock TW:

Your new model:

 

Edited July 31, 2024 by dtmdragon

[+ravenclaw_007]

9 hours ago, dtmdragon said:

Nice work and much appreciated mate. I do wonder if the Shafrir-1 is a bit over sized? It's hard with so little photos but here are a few more that seem to show quite a small missile closer the dimensions of the the stock TW Shafrir-1.

i got this dimensions for the Shafrir 1  

• Length:    2500 mm
• Wingspan: 550 mm
• Diameter:  140 mm
• Weight:        65 kg

and this one for the Shafrir 2

• Length:    2600 mm
• Wingspan: 550 mm
• Diameter:  160 mm
• Weight:        93 kg

 

i notice that TW is using a much smaller diameter and much shorter length for both missiles , i was searching different sources for the dimensions and got always the same result 

TW dimensions:

ModelName=shafrir-1
Mass=65.000000
Diameter=0.110000
Length=2.000000

TW has the front fins wrong to , the position should be rotated by 45° , check the pictures you posted 

NOTE :  the first prototypes of the Shafrir 1 had a length of 2000 mm and a diameter of 110 mm , this are the dimensions of the TW 3d model , this early Shafrir 1 was unsuccessful and the missile was changed to the dimensions mention above for a larger rocket motor and better performance , that is the info i found

 

by the way the last missile picture with the 101 on the side fits the model i made

 

i only can make the weapons based on the info i find , and i´m searching quite some time before i start making a 3d model , so if my info is wrong than i apologize for a wrong missile model but i got this dimensions from more than 1 source only    

Edited July 31, 2024 by ravenclaw_007

[+ravenclaw_007]

this are some early Shafrir 1 missiles , check the rear wings they dont have the rolleron assemblies yet , this rolleron assemblies where added after a live firing test 1962 where all missiles missed the target

 

no info on the dimensions they used for this missiles bud on a quick comparison with my 3d model this one here are definitely shorter

 

[+Gepard]

My 2 cents have nothing to do with the 3d model. For me it looks great.

My 2 cents are about the flight behavior of the Shafrir. Pilots said, that the Shafrir made very heavy curls while flying. Much bigger than the Sidewinder or the soviet R-3S (AA-2). It was also said, that Shafrir, which made not such big movements hit nothing.

I dont know, wheter this behavior can be simulated in the SF2 world.

[+EricJ]

I'd rather go with German engineering than half-assed work from TW, that's my opinion on the matter. I mean, I use eye measurements for models I've done in Arma 3, as you can't (or maybe I just haven't found after all these years) model according to exact measurements. I mean, it's a valid argument while I may not use the Shafrir 1 and 2, but it's good knowing that they're well-researched.

[+dtmdragon]

9 hours ago, ravenclaw_007 said:

i got this dimensions for the Shafrir 1  

• Length:    2500 mm
• Wingspan: 550 mm
• Diameter:  140 mm
• Weight:        65 kg

and this one for the Shafrir 2

• Length:    2600 mm
• Wingspan: 550 mm
• Diameter:  160 mm
• Weight:        93 kg

 

i notice that TW is using a much smaller diameter and much shorter length for both missiles , i was searching different sources for the dimensions and got always the same result 

TW dimensions:

ModelName=shafrir-1
Mass=65.000000
Diameter=0.110000
Length=2.000000

TW has the front fins wrong to , the position should be rotated by 45° , check the pictures you posted 

NOTE :  the first prototypes of the Shafrir 1 had a length of 2000 mm and a diameter of 110 mm , this are the dimensions of the TW 3d model , this early Shafrir 1 was unsuccessful and the missile was changed to the dimensions mention above for a larger rocket motor and better performance , that is the info i found

 

by the way the last missile picture with the 101 on the side fits the model i made

 

i only can make the weapons based on the info i find , and i´m searching quite some time before i start making a 3d model , so if my info is wrong than i apologize for a wrong missile model but i got this dimensions from more than 1 source only    

That all makes complete sense those are probably early prototypes in some of the photos. I wasn't aware of the change in size to the production model. I hope you did didn't take my post as any form of criticism as I highly respect your work and effort I simply raised it for the benefit of accuracy and in this case I was lacking in information.

[+ravenclaw_007]

4 hours ago, dtmdragon said:

That all makes complete sense those are probably early prototypes in some of the photos. I wasn't aware of the change in size to the production model. I hope you did didn't take my post as any form of criticism as I highly respect your work and effort I simply raised it for the benefit of accuracy and in this case I was lacking in information.

i always welcome constructive criticism , it helps me to make better models , but i this case it just make me doubt if my information´s are right , that is the reason i deleted the 2 missiles and keep on searching for more and better info

the Shafrir 1 missile was only for a few years in service and the IDF got only 200 pieces of it ( some say even a lot less than that ) , after all my searching i have not found a single picture of a live missile  , i got pictures form early prototype and test versions but none of a missile that enter the service ( after 1964 ) that makes it very difficult to create a correct model 

some info even saying that the final Shafrir 1 had a target detection sensor with a proximity fuze , i know that the Shfrir 2 have them bud i have no idea how it would look on a Shafrir 1 , the early Shafrir 1 required a direct hit

so no my friend i dont take your comment as criticism , bud i will search now even harder to find some more info on that missile i´m curios what info is right and wich is not , maybe one of our Israeli members could help us here

[+ravenclaw_007]

i just contacted RAFAEL the Israeli manufacturer of this missiles , lets see if i get an answer  

[+daddyairplanes]

Good Luck!

its hit or miss reaching out to direct sources like that, but is awesome when it hits and you get alot more than just the one or two answers you were looking for (probably why i'm a member of multiple USAF unit FB pages despite being a retired Army cook )

[+EricJ]

7 minutes ago, daddyairplanes said:

Good Luck!

its hit or miss reaching out to direct sources like that, but is awesome when it hits and you get alot more than just the one or two answers you were looking for (probably why i'm a member of multiple USAF unit FB pages despite being a retired Army cook )

I've always been into aviation since I was really young, so don't ask me as to why I joined the US Army either. It did help in Afghanistan, knowing somewhat the perspective of people who fly. But anyway hopefully Rafael helps you out.