Parky, von Paulus, please advice

[Creaghorn 10]

hallo,

 

i thought, with p4 on deck it's time to upgrade my rig. so my question is:

would it be enough to upgrade my cpu?

 

currently i have a 01/04/2008-MCP61P-NARRA3-00 motherboard with a QuadCore AMD Phenom X4 9500, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) on it.

probably it would be enough to just upgrade my cpu, though not everything is compatible.

so my question is, what cpu could i get with maximum performance and wich is compatible with the motherboard?

would an upgrade to 2,8 mhz or whatever the maximum for this motherboard is, have a significant performance boost or would it be wasted money?

 

i also have a nVIDIA PCI Express 1.0 x16: nVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 (p651) with 4 gig ram and 700watt power supply.

 

thank you in advance

[Von Paulus 8]

Sorry creaghorn, but I'm a Intel guy and not an AMD. So maybe Parky or for example BirdDogICT can be more helpful that I can be.

However later at night I can give a look.

Do you have an HP desktop? That motherboard reference doesn't tell me anything, it might be an Asus that is usually used with HP desktops. Do you have a motherboard manual? Or any other reference?

I suspect it is a Asus M2N68-LA (NARRA3) but I'd like to be sure in order to be able to read the CPU support list.

[Creaghorn 10]

Sorry creaghorn, but I'm a Intel guy and not an AMD. So maybe Parky or for example BirdDogICT can be more helpful that I can be.

However later at night I can give a look.

Do you have an HP desktop? That motherboard reference doesn't tell me anything, it might be an Asus that is usually used with HP desktops. Do you have a motherboard manual? Or any other reference?

I suspect it is a Asus M2N68-LA (NARRA3) but I'd like to be sure in order to be able to read the CPU support list.

 

yes. it's a HP and exactly what you did suspect.

 

Asus M2N68-LA (Narra3)

 

thank you for looking, von paulus. i'm just too inexperienced with stuff like this and the danger i could buy something senseless is too big. so i appreciate any help

[Von Paulus 8]

I think you've a HP Pavillion a6353.de.

This means that you've this motherboard. In this case as stated in the HP page you can only upgrade to QuadCore AMD Phenom X4 9500@ 2300. That means you wouldn't have any real advantage in upgrading. Not big difference.

But to be sure I'd have to know what is your motherboard revision. That information is usually printed in the motherboard beneath the model name M2N68-LA. I think it's B2 not B3.

So if all my suppositions are correct, I'm afraid creaghorn, in matter of CPU upgrade, you've no chance.:no2:

Only by changing also the motherboard. And like all computer brands (HP, Dell, Fujitsu, Acer, Sony, etc) , we never know what is possible to do.

 

It's a pity, your system would really benefit from a little more clock speed. Maybe OC it's possible.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Creaghorn 10]

I think you've a HP Pavillion a6353.de.

This means that you've this motherboard. In this case as stated in the HP page you can only upgrade to QuadCore AMD Phenom X4 9500@ 2300. That means you wouldn't have any real advantage in upgrading. Not big difference.

But to be sure I'd have to know what is your motherboard revision. That information is usually printed in the motherboard beneath the model name M2N68-LA. I think it's B2 not B3.

So if all my suppositions are correct, I'm afraid creaghorn, in matter of CPU upgrade, you've no chance.

Only by changing also the motherboard. And like all computer brands (HP, Dell, Fujitsu, Acer, Sony, etc) , we never know what is possible to do.

 

It's a pity, your system would really benefit from a little more clock speed. Maybe OC it's possible.

 

that's sorry to hear. thank you for looking though. so i'll have to look for new cpu and also new motherboard. or try to OC. never did that but i think there are enough tutorials out there so i might give it a try.

[Von Paulus 8]

I'm not sure if you can OC your HP. Even if it has a Asus motherboard you might not be able do perform it.

Those motherboards are unique, and they aren't listed even in Asus support site. So there aren't for example any BIOS updates.

Usually, they don't even bring a full set of CMOS functions. So.... next time, creaghorn, make yourself a favour and build your own rig.

 

I found these 2 links about your board and CPU upgrade:

http://www.tomshardw...ra3-motherboard

http://vip.asus.com/...page=1&count=59

Edited May 23, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Morris 2]

Dear Creaghorn,

 

What operating system are you using?

 

Upgrade to more RAM

Get a SSDrive for running windows and OFF - this will be a great performance boost

Maybe upgrade ur current graphics card to something like a GTX 290.

 

M

[rabu 9]

Be really careful if you upgrade your video card up to the Nvidia GTX-260 or higher series cards.. they require a LOT more power supply current. I had real problems with a GTX260 and finally returned it to NewEgg for a full refund. I contacted Antec, who makes my T3 650w PS and they said it isn't enough for a GTX260 they suggested a single rail PS with 40 amps or a quad rail PS with 25 amps on the 12v 3 and 4 rails.

PS voltage doesn't mean that much if it can't handle high current and many manufactures don't make it clear what you get for the money.

Edited May 23, 2010 by rabu

[appraiserfl 0]

hallo,

 

i thought, with p4 on deck it's time to upgrade my rig. so my question is:

would it be enough to upgrade my cpu?

 

currently i have a 01/04/2008-MCP61P-NARRA3-00 motherboard with a QuadCore AMD Phenom X4 9500, 2200 MHz (11 x 200) on it.

probably it would be enough to just upgrade my cpu, though not everything is compatible.

so my question is, what cpu could i get with maximum performance and wich is compatible with the motherboard?

would an upgrade to 2,8 mhz or whatever the maximum for this motherboard is, have a significant performance boost or would it be wasted money?

 

i also have a nVIDIA PCI Express 1.0 x16: nVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 (p651) with 4 gig ram and 700watt power supply.

 

thank you in advance

 

Creaghorn, may I suggest you build your own custom computer this time around and stay away from HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. Most people are scared and daunted by building their own computer, but it is very easy and you save so much money and get much better components. I built my first computer in 2007 after 20 years of using name brand PCs and I could never go back!

 

I am now on my fourth personal built computer as it is allot of fun to upgrade and tinker and my parents third HP crapola budget pc just broke and they were so fed up with cheapo computers that they finally caved and asked me to build them one. For $642.00 US, I built them an I7 930 processor mildly over clocked to 3.6ghz watercooled with a Corsair H50, with 12 gig of triple channel OCZ Platinum memory, an ASUS Gene Rampage II motherboard, with an ATI 5770 and a Striker 7.1 soundcard and a 1 terragig hard drive. $642 dollars built that! A computer with all of those components would cost over $2,000 from a custom computer builder and HP, Dell, etc really don't even sell computers that could match that performance.

 

So I say, keep you current PC hooked up and make it a project to build a new one....It literally takes less than an hour to put together if you know what your are doing and a few hours if you don't and wanna be cautious. We can help walk you thru it if you decide that route!

 

Cheers

Edited May 23, 2010 by appraiserfl

[tranquillo 10]

Creaghorn, may I suggest you build your own custom computer this time around and stay away from HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. Most people are scared and daunted by building their own computer, but it is very easy and you save so much money and get much better components. I built my first computer in 2007 after 20 years of using name brand PCs and I could never go back!

 

I am now on my fourth personal built computer as it is allot of fun to upgrade and tinker and my parents third HP crapola budget pc just broke and they were so fed up with cheapo computers that they finally caved and asked me to build them one. For $642.00 US, I built them an I7 930 processor mildly over clocked to 3.6ghz watercooled with a Corsair H50, with 12 gig of triple channel OCZ Platinum memory, an ASUS Gene Rampage II motherboard, with an ATI 5770 and a Striker 7.1 soundcard and a 1 terragig hard drive. $642 dollars built that! A computer with all of those components would cost over $2,000 from a custom computer builder and HP, Dell, etc really don't even sell computers that could match that performance.

 

So I say, keep you current PC hooked up and make it a project to build a new one....It literally takes less than an hour to put together if you know what your are doing and a few hours if you don't and wanna be cautious. We can help walk you thru it if you decide that route!

 

Cheers

 

Totally agree. With some trepidation I built my first rig last year and as long as you have everything there before you start, it takes no time at all and nowhere near as difficult as you might think. Apart from the cost saving benefits you get the added satisfaction of knowint that "I built this"

[Creaghorn 10]

thank you all.

so probably it would be a good idea to first buy a bigger case with apropriate coolers etc. then a good motherboard and CPU which is clockable and which i can upgrade after some time.

from my current rig i could use the gtx260 and the power supply and drives and RAM etc. and then i might upgrade those things from time to time. so i don't need to build a new rig from scratch but only what's badly necessary and use the, so far, good enough parts from my old rig. what do you think?

[Von Paulus 8]

I think it's good idea.

But... If you're going to buy a new, board and a new CPU, think in new technology with DD3. So you'd have to buy also memory.

It doesn't make sense, to make those changes without thinking in "new". Otherwise don't spent your money. Give yourself a platform for three years.

 

IMHO, a good plan should be like this:

First choose a good case with enough inner space and a good Power supply (but I need to know what are the specs of yours).

Second the CPU, motherboard and memory.

Don't forget also Windows if you want to go legit. The Windows you have now, won't work in the new rig.

In one year, not more than two, change graphic card and buy also an SSD drive.

In three or at most four years begin the cycle again, if PC computers exist at the time.

 

Two considerations:

First you've to choose if you want Intel or AMD technology. This will influence the motherboard.

I'm an Intel guy, but I'm not against AMD products. Only in my line of work, people usually prefer Intel. So for me it's Intel.

Second consideration and most important. You must think in terms of balance. It doesn't matter to have a good CPU if you have a bad graphic card for example. Think always in term of the future. If you're only interest in playing OFF than I would advise for you to look to clock speed instead of multi cores.

But if you want a machine to play something more you must also look to multi core. So balance and the capability of future overclocking might be important.

In my case I choose a I5 750 running at 2.66Ghz. It has 4 real cores. 2.66 it's not bad for OFF but not ideal. But with a little overclocking I was able to raise 20% an now I'm at 3.2Ghz without any problem. I did had this consideration when I upgraded my machine.

 

A link with an article about CPU's.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Von Paulus

[Creaghorn 10]

I think it's good idea.

But... If you're going to buy a new, board and a new CPU, think in new technology with DD3. So you'd have to buy also memory.

It doesn't make sense, to make those changes without thinking in "new". Otherwise don't spent your money. Give yourself a platform for three years.

 

IMHO, a good plan should be like this:

First choose a good case with enough inner space and a good Power supply (but I need to know what are the specs of yours).

i have a 750w power supply. should be enough, shouldn't it?

Second the CPU, motherboard and memory.

may i ask what you would recommend? as you can see i'm completely inexperienced in stuff like this. intel sounds good. . what dd3 memory would you recommend?

Don't forget also Windows if you want to go legit. The Windows you have now, won't work in the new rig.

it won't work because it's registered? shouldn't there be a solution fo that? i think i'm not the one and only one in the world who has windows and buys a new rig. so what do they do? do they have to buy a new windows?

In one year, not more than two, change graphic card and buy also an SSD drive.

In three or at most four years begin the cycle again, if PC computers exist at the time.

 

Two considerations:

First you've to choose if you want Intel or AMD technology. This will influence the motherboard.

I'm an Intel guy, but I'm not against AMD products. Only in my line of work, people usually prefer Intel. So for me it's Intel.

Second consideration and most important. You must think in terms of balance. It doesn't matter to have a good CPU if you have a bad graphic card for example. Think always in term of the future. If you're only interest in playing OFF than I would advise for you to look to clock speed instead of multi cores.

mainly for OFF, but also for anything else interesting like sportsgames etc.

But if you want a machine to play something more you must also look to multi core. So balance and the capability of future overclocking might be important.

In my case I choose a I5 750 running at 2.66Ghz. It has 4 real cores. 2.66 it's not bad for OFF but not ideal. But with a little overclocking I was able to raise 20% an now I'm at 3.2Ghz without any problem. I did had this consideration when I upgraded my machine.

 

A link with an article about CPU's.

 

thank you, sir

[Von Paulus 8]

750 Power supply is more than enough.

Like I've told I can only recommend Intel. As you've seen in the Tom's Hardware site, they consider for May the best CPU for gaming, costing around $200 the I5-750. The choose that because you can overclock easily. But if you want to spend a little more you can always go to the I7 class, which can brings more virtual cores to the already 4 real cores.. In most cases the virtual cores will not help now. But in future who knows.

Look at the example of the rig appraiserfl assembled. With I7-930 and Asus motherboard. It's a good rig, only the graphic card it's not good for games. But that you don't need for now.

If you plan to go Intel, you've to decide before the motherboard which CPU technology you want?

I5-750, I7-860 or I7-930?

The I5-750 has 4 real cores and no virtual cores runs at 2.66Ghz. The I7-860 has 4 real cores and 4 virtual cores runs at 2.8Ghz. Both of these use dual channel for memory. So you'll work with pairs. for example 2x2GB.

The I7-930 has 4 real cores and 4 virtual cores and runs at 2.8Ghz. But this has a little difference it works with memory in triple channel, it means it work with triple memory. For example 3x2GB.

As you know OFF prefer more clock speed than multicore. You might have to overclock it a bit. This in any of the above processors. But we can talk later about that. First CPU.

 

I'd like people with AMD to give their opinion also and give configuration suggestions.

 

As for the Windows, in legal terms I'm afraid you're obliged to buy a new version unless you bought a retail version and not a OEM version that comes with a new computer.

In case of brand computers it's worst, because even if you want to forget the legal aspect, the thing usually won't work because it's hardware dependent.

[Morris 2]

Good advise Von Paulus.

[appraiserfl 0]

On my gaming rig I am using an intel Q9650 processor (Watercooled to 4ghz with a Corsair H50) with an Asus PQ5 Pro Turbo motherboard, 8 gigs of Gskill DDR2 memory, 2 Sapphire Toxic 5870 2gb video cards and a corsair SSD.

 

I am not sure about computer retailers in Germany, but if you can find a variant like Newegg then you can get your stuff in one place. You don't need to get brand new I7 stuff as OFF actually likes Core 2 quad just as much (if not more). The beauty is since this stuff is last gen you can get great deals if you buy it second hand...here are links to the stuff I got....(Disregard the prices as the new retail prices are a rip)....if you have any websites like the Hard Forum in Europe you can link up and get the components used, but in near new condition (http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)

 

Processor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819115130

 

Self contained CPU watercooler (this thing kicks ass!)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010&Tpk=h50

 

Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131377&cm_re=asus_pq5_pro-_-13-131-377-_-Product

 

Ram

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166

 

Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102891&cm_re=toxic_5870-_-14-102-891-_-Product

 

SSD (Very expensive, but very cool. Wait for prices to fall and get yourself a nice raptor Hard Drive or 7200RPM 1 terragig hard drive)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233123&cm_re=corsair_ssd-_-20-233-123-_-Product

[Morris 2]

Dear Creaghorn,

 

This is what i have in mind for you.

 

[Parky 8]

That my friend, is a surefire recipe for divorce.....lolol

 

But seriously....I'd have to agree that Creaghorn would be best advised to start looking at a new build. The current platform doesn't really allow for any upgrades that would result in any real significant performance gains. I'd be looking at going to a decent Asus or Gigabyte board with one of the i7's or i5's. Windows 7 64-Bit and probably 6 Gig of DDR3...a 5850 or 5870, some decent HDD's, but not necessarily SSD's (frankly I think they're over-hyped....and definitely over-PRICED). I'm currently running an Asus PX58D-Premium, i7-920 @ 3.6 Ghz, 6 Gig of G-Skill @ 1800 Mhz, a Sapphire 5970 OC, 4 Western Digital Black Terabyte drives-RAID-10 (more for redundancy than performance) and I'm happy as a lark. As a point of interest, I can push this i7-920 up to 4 Ghz without it even breaking a sweat, but there really doesn't seem to be a need. The Corsair H50 cooler that Appraiser mentions in his post does an outstanding job if it's set up in a push/pull arrangement with a couple of fans that have reasonably good static pressure. The Scythe Typhoons @ 1850 RPM do a nice job without making much noise at all.

 

Looks to me like Von Paulus pretty much has this one covered, but thought I'd throw in a couple of cents anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

Edited May 24, 2010 by Parky

[appraiserfl 0]

Dear Creaghorn,

 

This is what i have in mind for you.

 

 

Are you crazy Morris!! SWMABO will have his head if she sees that.....noooooo hes gotta blend it in like I did so she will never know, lol

[Creaghorn 10]

Dear Creaghorn,

 

This is what i have in mind for you.

 

 

WOW. not in this lifetime i suppose

[Creaghorn 10]

awesome help here. thank you all guys .

 

so let's say i'm no millionaire. and let's say i want to build something i can keep for the next 3-4 years, besides upgrading the gpu next year or so. also i would like to have a rig where i can fly bhah with all sliders up and high density, and to still have high fps. also it should be p4 ready, wich is obviously going to be more recource eating than p3.

 

so from that what i have read here i might take

a i7-930 (still need advice what motherboard though)

a Corsair Hydro Series H50 So.775/1156/1366 cooler

how about that ddr3 ram kit? 6144MB G.Skill PC3-10666 CL7 Triple Kit. if not those, wich one would you recommend?

and a new nice and big case with coolers.

 

i think that would be it for the beginning. did i forget something? i think my gtx 260 will do it for one more year or so. also the two sata drives i already have. in a year or two some new and more cheap ssd will do it.

 

@von paulus

i have a retail version of win 7, and if i understood you correctly i can use it again for the new rig, can't i?

[Von Paulus 8]

Still you need a case. I'd go to Cooler Master.

My favorite is CM 690 II Advanced. But HAF 922 it's not bad but with a little more aggressive design.

They aren't very expensive.

http://www.comstern.de/Cooler-Master-CM-690-II-Advanced-3a15108639.htm

http://www.comstern.de/Cooler-Master-HAF-922-RC-922M-KWN1-GP-3a15031793.htm

 

As for the motherboard, you've Asus, Gigabyte or Evga. Parky's Asus PX58D-Premium it's great because already has USB3 and SATA3. Appraiserfl Asus Gene Rampage II it's a board that you can fall in love just by looking at it. It's top quality. But it isn't USB3 and SATA3, so...

From Gigabyte you've GA-X58A-UD7 or even then new GA_X58A-UD9. If you don't want to spend so much money you've GA-X58A-UD5.

Two problems with Gigabyte. The implementation of USB3 and SATA3 is inferior to the Asus one. Second problem, you've here people who might help by giving their BIOS overclock values if you go to Asus.

The only advantage for choosing Gigabyte is that they have better quality of components in term of reliability and performance (less latencies problems I hear). From what I know, from talking with dealers, they have less RMA material from Gigabyte than from Asus. I've one and in spite of the problems above mentioned, I'm quite happy with it.

But to be honest, I'd choose in your case the Asus PX58D-Premium.

 

For the memory I'd choose GSKill @1800Mhz and not @1333Mhz as you suggested. You can go for OCZ also, very good brand also. Kingston if you want reliability.

 

No problem if you've a retail version of Windows 7. Probably the only thing it will happen is that you'll have to activate it by phone and not by Internet. Art least that is what happened with me. I hope it's 64 bits version.

[almccoyjr 7]

Unless you're going to "mod" the HAF 922, I'd go with the CM 690 Advanced II. It's complete with filters for all mesh areas, unlike the HAF 922.

 

You don't want a lot of dust mixing with your kite's oil.

 

I'm in the process of modding my new HAF 932 and the side mesh panel has been an interesting challenge.

 

plug_nickel

Edited May 24, 2010 by almccoyjr

[appraiserfl 0]

Still you need a case. I'd go to Cooler Master.

My favorite is CM 690 II Advanced. But HAF 922 it's not bad but with a little more aggressive design.

They aren't very expensive.

http://www.comstern....-3a15108639.htm

http://www.comstern....-3a15031793.htm

 

As for the motherboard, you've Asus, Gigabyte or Evga. Parky's Asus PX58D-Premium it's great because already has USB3 and SATA3. Appraiserfl Asus Gene Rampage II it's a board that you can fall in love just by looking at it. It's top quality. But it isn't USB3 and SATA3, so...

From Gigabyte you've GA-X58A-UD7 or even then new GA_X58A-UD9. If you don't want to spend so much money you've GA-X58A-UD5.

Two problems with Gigabyte. The implementation of USB3 and SATA3 is inferior to the Asus one. Second problem, you've here people who might help by giving their BIOS overclock values if you go to Asus.

The only advantage for choosing Gigabyte is that they have better quality of components in term of reliability and performance (less latencies problems I hear). From what I know, from talking with dealers, they have less RMA material from Gigabyte than from Asus. I've one and in spite of the problems above mentioned, I'm quite happy with it.

But to be honest, I'd choose in your case the Asus PX58D-Premium.

 

For the memory I'd choose GSKill @1800Mhz and not @1333Mhz as you suggested. You can go for OCZ also, very good brand also. Kingston if you want reliability.

 

No problem if you've a retail version of Windows 7. Probably the only thing it will happen is that you'll have to activate it by phone and not by Internet. Art least that is what happened with me. I hope it's 64 bits version.

 

I endorse Von Paulus recommendations, but I have to add I went with the rampage II because I got that used in a trade along with 12 gigs of OCZ ram and an I7930 (I traded my old triple Dell 2007fp monitor setup for them)....also I built that computer for my parents which is why I only gave them a 5770 gpu....but damn that computer smokes! If I was using their computer for gaming I would just slap in my 5870 and oc the cpu to 4ghz and call it a day....did I mention it only cost me $642 to build that...if you can find quality used computer parts like you can on forums like the hard forum then you can save some bucks going that route...of course the draw back is your getting used stuff and not getting exactly what you would want.

[Creaghorn 10]

6144MB G.Skill PC3-16000 CL9 Trident Series

 

how about this ram?