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RSS SA-2 Guideline Pack Public Test Beta 0.3

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RED SIDE STANDARD SA-2 Guideline Pack 0.30 Beta
============================================

 

This is a public test version. Please try out equipment playing from both sides. This pack has been tested against stock planes on stock terrain. Mostly on VietnamSE due SAM site density and fast loading time :)
About 1000+ launch tests have been done on planes with various types with or without jamming equipment at low and high altitude. Ballistics have been also checked with HoneyFox's Missile Range Simulator.

 

Introduction:
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To follow the philosophy behind Red Side Standard Weapons Pack (RSSW) I made an attempt to standardize the SAM systems as well. The first of such, the SA-2 Guideline or System-75 family.
Using multiple reference materials (both english an russian) we tried to fine tune the effectiveness of all the weaponry for satisfactory player game experience while keeping as much realism as possible. This provides more challenge playing on the blue side.
Effectiveness for guided missiles and radars have been tuned to provide realistic hit rate within the proper launch requirements. Because of game limitations, this means some technical parameters and values may be different from real world data.
We kept as much stock reference as we could to provide compatibility with original game standard (Naming, Types, etc).
Yet, there are no new ground objects included, but many new equipment is WIP for the final version.

 

Contents:
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- The latest 3D models of the SA-2 family missiles from Spillone104 with thoroughly revised characteristics (FM, Guidance, Ballistics etc)
- Weapon (and folder) names use common standard for convenience, clarity and simplified looks
- Most objects use the stock TW 3D models

 

Important changes:
------------------
- All missiles have been changed from Beam Rider to SAHM guidance, as a work around the faulty "tail chasing" game logic also present with Rear60 IR seeking missiles. Also, "Beam Rider" guidance does not allow lead targeting of the missile.
- All Fan Song radars have been set to their instrumented range, now it is fully up to the RCS, altitude and noise jamming values to determine the range of detection.
- Target tracking range has been made equal to the search range - what the Fan Song can see can track immediately - launch is still limited by the missile parameters.
Credits:
--------
Ground objects: TW
SA-2 missile family: Spillone104

 

Work in progress:
--------
More new 3D missile objects for all variants.
New Fan Song 3D models (with correct size and antenna types)
Various auxiliary vans or SAM site contruction
New Search/Height inding radar 3D models associated with the sites on regimental level
Experimental complete SAM site objects for terrains

 

Sources:
--------
- pvo.guns.ru
- ru.wikipedia.org
- www.airwar.ru
- various forums

 

- ZRK S-75M Uchebnik (Russian field training manual)
- SA-2 Guideline (Osprey)
- Istoriya Otyechestvennoy Radiolokatsii (History of Russian radar technology)
- Voyna v Vietname - Kak eto bylo (1965-1973) Personal journals of soviet personnel in Vietnam
- Zenitniye Voyska v Voyne vo Vietname i na Blizhnyem Vostoke (1965-1973) SAM battle experience in Vietnam and in the Middle east.

 

Special thanks to the author of SAM Simulator for his help and for creating his program.
https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home




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Far from perfect, but at least stuff has fancy names )))

 

Best would be if SAM units could fire passive mode home on jam with listen-only Fan Songs (No RWR response), then i could restore the "Beam Riding" for  three-point guidance mode...

Another problem that there is no control over the proximity fuse. Missiles that have been lured by chaff or decepted by jamming are going completely inactive and ballistic without exploding on chaff or near miss.

Also, there is no way to simulate the 200m fragmentation radius of the warhead to have some light damages caused.

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Actualy it looks very balanced to me thank you!

The main problem with 3rd party AAA or SAMs in SF 2 is that they very often have "strange" values and parameters wich gave them a potential to ruin campagn game completly. The problem comes from the fact that they are used most ot he time against the AI and the AI dont have the abilities to respond corectliy against such a threat (we all know his limitations) and entire AI flights get anihilated by superpowerful static AAA or SAMs. The result is that campaign is finished after few misions cause there is not enough planes in the AI squadrons to fly the misions.

Few examples from data i found in my mods folder:

 

FullName=FIM-92A Stinger

 

SubsonicDragCoeff=0.120000
SupersonicDragCoeff=0.222000<--this thing have no drag!

Accuracy=95 <--ok maybe its real!
MaxTurnRate=30.000000 <--its more agile than "Lima" ???
MaxLaunchG=22.000000 <-- Ihave no idea why?

 

SeekerFOV=30.000000
SeekerGimbleLimit=45.000000
SeekerTrackRate=35.000000 <--- no escape posible!
SeekerRange=4500.000000

SustainerDuration=30.000000
SustainerAccel=60.000000 <--it comes realy fast :)

 

Duration=35.000000 <--fly long enogh to hit anyting with only few kg of fuel!
CounterCountermeasure=80.000000 <--AI flares dont have a chance against such value...

 

From SF2_AAA_Pack :

 

Bofors_DATA

NationName=USMC
ServiceStartYear=1939
ServiceEndYear=1983
GroundObjectRole=STATIC_AAA

 

[DetectSystem]                  <---this section lacks "VisualSearchTime=" ???
TargetType=AIR
DataLink=FALSE
OpticalSight=TRUE
NightSight=FALSE
VisualRange=8000.0
VisualMinimumAlt=100.0
ViewportPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30
MaxVisibleDistance=4800.0
RadarCrossSection=2

[WeaponSystem]
TargetType=AIR
GunRange=5067.0
PitchAngleRate=30
MaxPitch=85.0
MinPitch=0.0
DefaultPitchAngle=30
YawLimited=FALSE
YawAngleRate=30
DefaultYawAngle=0
ReloadGunAtAngle=FALSE
GunRecoil=20
GunMinAltitude=100.0
GunMaxAltitude=3800.0
GunStabilization=FALSE
GunRadarTracking=FALSE
RangeFinder=3
BallisticComputer=3                             <--- start year 1939 ???
YawModelNodeName=Bofors-Base
PitchModelNodeName=Cañon-Bofors

 

This SAMs and AAA are more deadly but the AI cant react properly and this ruins the campaign game overal. I think we need SAMs and AAA pack that is not too deadly for the AI and keeps game in balance the stock TK values for AAA and SAMs are good example and starting point.

 

PS: I learned my english in the internet so if there is any (or too many) gramar or typo mistakes keep in mind that Im not a "native speaker".

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Thanks for your thoughs!! Maximally agreed...  add to that, the jammer values are also strange sometimes.

 

I also did the testing against the AI planes, because of the same reason. Human player has the ability to see and turn - while AI relies on deceptive strength to break the lock and dumping tons of chaff

 

and, of course the currect CM, jammer and radar features represent the early 70's. Technological "advance" can only be done with increasing values - and it has a max limit where weapons/jammers/radars etc turn into death rays, God's eyes, or invisibility devices.

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Nice models.  The airspace is pretty much ridiculous now between the radar AAA and your SAM mod.  Did you try any games with a jammer in the air other than just the on board stuff?  The Thuds aren't doing well and that's only set to NORMAL.

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Missile maneuverability was reduced since, a new version will be out soon. I did test with a Modded F-105G but it was my player controlled plane, no anomalies detected... as for AI I will also take a look, with the less maneuver G values.

 

Thanks for your testing, please share any result you have, in detail, which plane, which year against which missile.

 

One thing I have also noticed - especially with the new SA-3 family - that noise rejection value is vital for low level performance. High Noise Rejection however makes missiles to resistant to deceptive jamming, this might cause their reduced effectiveness, especially againt AI craft which cannot really evade(

So, after the missiles' base performance is set, some jammers might need some minor adjustments.

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I'm using the SA-2LF system 1966-1970.  The SAM is pushing the Thuds (F-105D) down low as they did.  Coming in at 10 000ft won't work.  I have the QRC-101s on and transmitting and it doesn't work.  Long shot SAM out around 20 NMs are routinely knocking down planes.  The dive and go to ground works but you are down in the weeds to get that Fansong to break lock, then all the rest of the AAA join in. 

 

I had to dig out the old SAM trails so I could see something coming and try to evade it.  Without it, no idea as you can't visually padlock the SAM coming but at least with that, you can see a trail.

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I got to revise the jammers as well. Which ECM you were using? Stock or mod?

 

The Noise resistance (which is used against deceptive jammers as well) need to be high for such SAM which can engage at low altitude. SA-3 suffers from this heavily. That's why need to check jammer strenght (and freq)

 

 

The Thud is suffering because it has no chaff. The maneuverability of missile has been reduced (to IRL level actually)  next version will be out soon.

 

 

Actually, the stock SA-2F is better than my SA-2F which is available from 1968

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