FE where will it go?

[wingstrut 0]

It seems to me that this sim series, in terms only of interest generated for WW1, is generating a relatively small band of followers and little to no interest in mods/planes/terrain etc.. for FE(as opposed to those sim fans who prefer planes that run JP4.aka jet fuel). :tomato2:

 

Discuss :

[+baffmeister 1,205]

FE seems to be generating a lot of posts at this site. I expect it will have a very long life, as new players become familiar with the Third Wire game and flight engine.

[Dagger 21]

keep in mind the sim is new,and it takes awhile to get a community in place.As for interest it will come.After the new patch is released things will heat up.

[+bortdafarm 1]

i love this game/sim...it's my favourite flightsim ..it's only a 500 mb full install.... runs without the cd in the drive ...endlessly moddable....and has more hidden depths than a bottomless coal scuttle....lol!!

 

get's my vote...

[+Tailspin 3]

Its only been out a month. There are already 5 new planes, all the non-flyables are flyable with a great Albatross cockpit making it complete, new effects packages, terrain mods... Looking at the glass half full side of things, I'd say we're off to a great start.

[MajorDB 0]

And tons of great skins!

[MJmorrow 0]

i love this game/sim...it's my favourite flightsim ..it's only a 500 mb full install.... runs without the cd in the drive ...endlessly moddable....and has more hidden depths than a bottomless coal scuttle....lol!!

 

get's my vote...

 

I agree. This is my favorite game too. I missed out on Red Baron 3D. I am very glad that I did not miss out on this sim. I understand jets have tremendous appeal. Still, this game has seemingly endless moddable potential. I would like to see greater attention to authentic details. Details like accurate start up procedures, engine management and prop management would help emersion. A clickable cockpit wouldn't hurt either! =) The mod community is so very talented. I hope this game takes on a life that Red Baron took on. I thank all of you for sharing your labor of love. I am grateful that TK and team took a risk on this sim. I look forward to the future of First Eagles.

[wingstrut 0]

I am grateful that TK and team took a risk on this sim. I look forward to the future of First Eagles.

 

I echo your sentiments.

 

My point in offering discussion on this topic is that really no one since RB3D has taken the risk of developing a new sim based on WW1 flight. Granted their have various "mods" of old RB as well as a mod of CFS. I guess at some level this FE could be considered a variant mod off the existing game engine of SF/WOV etc..

 

Nevertheless, I think today's gamers tend to like "jet fuel" instead of "canvas and wires." Consequently, it seems apparent that developers don't see a market for WW1 sims. Its unfortunate, but I think true. Hence as you put "took a risk on this sim."

 

I would hope that those who have taken intrest in this sim can put this together in a more comprehensive, fined tuned package in the near future. The second risk now is that this could develop or fade into oblivion unless it captures a larger audience. I have the feeling that at least a few dedicated people here are taking up the challenge, and as a "user" I am grateful for the efforts.

[+sinbad 27]

There is a lot of potential here, but it may be surpassed by the imminent release of OFF 2. The basic FM and AI do not do justice to the very nice models and skins.

 

It remains to be seen whether this will be a game which looks good and has appeal to the players or a flight sim which attempts to accurately depict flying characteristics and combat tactics in a realistic environment.

I hope it will be the latter,but right now I'm not sure.

 

Of course RB was a game for the kids when it was released. This one is more open to modding than RB so, we'll see . . .

[Bandy 3]

There has been some mention of the need for online play and developing a stronger community, but these threads have largely been ignored. Hopefully just in the interim while people have fun against the AI.

 

But I would have to agree with online=community. I was just trying to get RB3D running (I too missed out), but gave up when FE came out. Thank the gods

(aka TK )! Thank all the talented 3rd party folks too!!! I'm enjoying every minute of the game, and walking into the forums to see what might be there to download. Christmas came early with the A-Team Camel and Tripe... Joy to the World!

Edited December 30, 2006 by B Bandy RFC

[+TexMurphy 0]

For the first time in years there is something happening in the WW1 market... I think there is at least 2 or 3 more WW1 projects going on atm and I think the coopetition will be good for the genre...

 

Im saying coopetition because it is in fact cooperation and competition for these projects.. they all create momentum for the niche... then compete for market shares... if there would have been just one then the niche would have been much smaller...

 

So WW1 is gonna see an up swing...

 

FE will have a good life... wount be a smash hit as its a niche niche game but will do well enough to be profitable for the parties involved...

 

TK has a good concept where he is reusing alot of his work which cuts development costs... this is something that his competitors dont have...

 

TK can easily put out 3 WW1 games at the cost of 1 game from another company...

 

Tex

[wingstrut 0]

will do well enough to be profitable for the parties involved...

 

TK has a good concept where he is reusing alot of his work which cuts development costs... this is something that his competitors dont have...

 

 

On the other hand the fact of the matter is that the public is only getting "1/2 a game" as a result of this approach. FE seems to need a long way to go in terms of flight, AI, and the rest. Planes still seem to look as if they have been puched from behind by a ground lauched SA-2. I would gladly pay a full $49.99 for a more finished product. The older I get, the less time I have to dink around with this stuff, waiting for mods...and fixing the bugs. I want to enjoy the global warming weather while I still have time left on the good earth.

[+sinbad 27]

I agree with Wingstrut. While it is fun to tinker with code, especially in plain English, I find I am spending more time with that than I am flying the sim. Programming is rather like maintenance on an engine. I will get my hands dirty if I need to, and sometimes it is satisfying to get the cranky thing to run properly, but it is not the name of the game.

 

The work on OFF appears to be far more thorough than FE, and any cost is entirely optional. The only competitive advantage I see with FE is that it was released before the second phase of OFF. That may explain whey we have so few planes, and so many issues. The OFF team is devoted to historical accuracy in all regards, and the recent movie demonstrates an excellent body of work. If they had both been released on the same day, I doubt I would have paid for FE. In the world of Adam Smith, the FE developers made the right move to release it when they did.

 

There are many who want to play a game, and there are others, probably fewer, who prefer the historically and aerodynamically accurate sim. It remains to be seen whether or not FE can, or will attempt to, compete for that segment of the sin community after OFF phase 2 is released, not to mention the sim which is based on the IL-2 engine.

 

I count myself among those folks who want historical, and aerodynamic accuracy. I have been a buff for WWI aviation since the 50's, when I was a kid. I started flying in the 60's, and especially now that I am grounded, I really enjoy a challenging FM in a sim. Fortunately it seems that things are looking up and it may well be that all segments of the community may soon be able to get what they want.

[BUFF 8]

On the other hand the fact of the matter is that the public is only getting "1/2 a game" as a result of this approach. FE seems to need a long way to go in terms of flight, AI, and the rest.

I don't think that TK is aiming for the same thing that some of you are.

Flightsimming is a niche market (something like 0.6% of PC games) & authentic, full real is a niche within that. My take is that TK is aiming for a fun game (without being totally arcade), perhaps something that will act as a starter game for a new generation of flightsimmmers & he's being kind enough/shrewd enough to leave the door open for those who want & have the ability to tweak the engine to do more of what it's capable.

Iif you look around the forums you will find people with knowledge in their areas who will tell you that the routines built into the engine for FM, damage modelling etc. as are as good as anything out there - they just need to be taken advantage of.

If you haven't read that recent article in the Austin statesman it's worth a read http://www.statesman.com/search/content/bu...5thirdwire.html .

 

Similarly I don't believe that improving the MP code is high on his list of priorities as he doesn't believe that full-featured MP is an important need for his core target market (again MP is a niche imo perhaps 5-10%? of flightsimmers).

Shockwave obviously agree as they deleted the MP section of BoB II rather than improve it - I guess that the expected returns weren't worth the investment.

 

For those of you that are new to this series of games you also have to have faith that TK will support & patch it.

Historically TK's service packs aren't just bug fixes either but add additional features/functionality.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Firstly, I just wanna say that I can't stand WW1 flight sims anymore! Now, that being said, I've tried this and it rekindled that small spark in me to dig out my old copy of redbaron 3d (strangely enough I found my copy of the original RB in the process!). Now this is just my personal opinion, I just haven't been that big a fan of WW1 games.

But I think that FE's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness (or biggest weakness is biggest strength, it's a glass half full/empty thing ) in that the SFP engine is so easy to tinker with and that is going to give it a long lifespan. I mean back in the early to mid 90's as games were being release and programming skill was on par with technical progress, it was understandable for games to be released as (what we'd consider now anyway) simplistic simulators. There were no large scale online markets like today, laning wasn't all that common per se so the demand to produce a complex sim wasn't there. But today with communities wanting to have an input into their game of choice, it's important to have that flexibility in the game engine to support sub genres that companies may find too risky to venture into (or back into as the case may be).

 

The strike fighters engine has shown its adaptability to genres that have been radically different, yet not impossible to simulate which, in my limited experience, hasn't been reproduced by another sim series (feel free to call me on that one). All you have to do is take a look at the limited appeal of SF when it was released and compare it to where it is now, three spinoffs later and a butt load of addons and the future for something like FE, even with OFF's imminent release, is pretty bright. Okay, so the A.I. is a bit twitchy, and there are bugs, nothing that can't be sorted out with the appropriate patching. And I there are people who don't want to spend time tinkering with it given that it can be a time consuming process. So what? That's the beauty of this sim. The level of detail or realism is scalable to the individual user. GENIUS! These things take time, just like the Su-35 Flanker I want for the SFP games, nevertheless, it will happen. You'll see. After the modding community has had time to sink their teeth into it, you'll have some great toys to play with!

 

(By the way, I received no payment for this cheerleader rant by Thirdwire or any of their affiliates . After being suckered into that mess that was LOMAC, I very grateful to find this series of sims and it's associated community to quench my nerdy sim thirst )

[+bortdafarm 1]

for me there is one issue with ALL microsoft combat flightsims which renders them toyish...and it is collision detection....it's appalling...get within a snifter of another aircraft and blam game over...you don't even get the grace of seeing your self crash into the ground ..just blam over....this seems to me to show the core principle of the series...quake in slow motion with aircraft

[+sinbad 27]

I'll hang on waiting for the Godot of WWI flight sims, It may be that FE will evolve into that; it may be that OFF will be that.

 

It may be that I'll never see it at all.

 

Meanwhile FE has potential. I'm glad so many folks are working to improve it.

[MJmorrow 0]

I'll hang on waiting for the Godot of WWI flight sims, It may be that FE will evolve into that; it may be that OFF will be that.

 

It may be that I'll never see it at all.

 

Meanwhile FE has potential. I'm glad so many folks are working to improve it.

I agree with Sinbad. The mod community is fantastic. Half of the value of the TK projects is that they bring out the best in the mod community. I would really like to see the community come together to create mods to make the FE experience more, “authentic,” in terms of how the aircraft fly, etc. There are editing tutorials that I am looking at right now. Still, I am a novice just learning the tricks of the trade. It would be great if the big guns of this mod community would come up with a codified approach to modding this game to bring the better attributes of other WW 1 sims into the FE game.

-MJ

Edited January 1, 2007 by MJmorrow

[+bortdafarm 1]

i have to admit to having been driven half barmy by realism concepts in sims...!!!!

[MJmorrow 0]

i have to admit to having been driven half barmy by realism concepts in sims...!!!!

You have added really good stuff too! I am looking at your programming mods as part of my learning experience.

-mj

[+bortdafarm 1]

You have added really good stuff too! I am looking at your programming mods as part of my learning experience.

-mj

Cheers MJ!! i'm not a great believer in realism in sims..not in the traditional sense anyway...

i try to bring what is there to life as much as possible without trying to lay down any law on wether the stats match the real world...a game/sim world has it's own unique rules...sometimes it is better to work with those rules rather than against them (as often happens with out and out realism work)..ya can't take the real world an slap it in a game/sim one and expect the two to make much sense together..

 

a sim world has to have it's own unique "life" if it does then it will be convincing regardless of any other considerations...that's my take on it all....mind you i spend most of my time watching the AI fly ..so it's a bit of a WWI movie to me rather than a sim.... it's great!!

[Gr.Viper 131]

mind you i spend most of my time watching the AI fly

hmm... do I see another AIMOD coming up... Or are you waiting for the patch, like almost everyone?

 

IMHO, the point of any sim-game is to create 'impression' of realism, not the pure realism itself. The real thing is used only for pilot training and full immersion is usually created there with much more than PC monitor and a joystick.

[+bortdafarm 1]

IMHO, the point of any sim-game is to create 'impression' of realism, not the pure realism itself. The real thing is used only for pilot training and full immersion is usually created there with much more than PC monitor and a joystick.

very true !

 

tell you what tho...i have a CH flight yoke and pedals....and was gratefull that FE is compatible with them both...the springs that create resistance on the yoke don't really affect you in non combat sims but with the need to use full elevator movement in turns and so on after a short while it actually begins to wear you out!!

after three kills i usually need a rest! that's one thing that allways get forgotten in realism stuff....you'd be absoloutely knackered in a very short time indeed in real life..in a sim that would keep the kill tally down for the player.!!! certainly keeps mine down...it's exactly this sort of stuff that renders most realism issues in sims to be so selective that they become irrelevant..

folks want to feel that they are flying something as close to the real thing as possible and i'm all for that...

but there's no sense in taking them seriously..it's supposed to be fun ...any-one who says otherwise has potentaily lost the plot..!! i'd like the aircraft to have that certain magic tho i must say!! but that's going to take a bit more imagination than just typing the correct stats into an airfile.. it's going to need to be a game engine specific element...something unique..you see the problem with flight sims is that nothing actually flys...

there's no Air....everything is controlled by the FM....you can model a railway station and attach an airfile to it and it'll fly just the same as if it were an aircraft....the day they can model actual flight in flight sims ..that'll be the day we can really enjoy ourselves... i dunno has to come some day....create genuine Air in the sim...create a genuine relation ship between the wings and flying surfaces and that air to create lift as in the real world...and off you go...be very simple at first...but you wouldn't be able to take the drag of a FokkerDVII's undercarraige by editing a text file..you'd have to add streamlining to the model file itself!

Edited January 2, 2007 by bortdafarm

[+Dave 2,322]

I think FE has a great future, it has had a kick ass beginning. Also the community over here is much more enjoyable then at some other places. You all modders keep up the good work.

[+sinbad 27]

i have to admit to having been driven half barmy by realism concepts in sims...!!!!

 

As this is posted I find an excellent Beta Fokker EIII for FE on your website. java script:emoticon('', 'smid_1')

 

Thanks very much for the work you put in to create this crate! I must say that all this is certainly some indication of a commitment to "realism" else why not simply create aircraft that resemble fanciful ( and perhaps more visually attractive) birds such as those in Crimson Skies? It seems that we are all seeking some measure of realism, perhaps in differing degrees. Meanwhile you are indulging everyone as you encourage us to "fart about with the bits n bobs" of this fine and apparently realistic (to a substantial degree) Fokker. Some will probably tug it in the direction of easier handling and others towards whatever view they have of "realism." It is a game, after all.

 

I remain your devoted fan.java script:emoticon('', 'smid_10')