The mig 21 "lancer"

[stalkervision 0]

Please please please can someone develop one of these... :yes:

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks...raft/mig21.html

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks...raft/borcea.jpg

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks...eriii_small.jpg

Edited January 2, 2007 by stalkervision

[+Dave 2,322]

There was one released a few years ago. Have to find it. Wouldn't take much to upgrade it.

[gerald14 0]

Yeah,all we need is a new cockpit and chaff and flares and

PLA, and Warsaw counties skins!!!!

 

Or a Mig-21 -2000 upgrade

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig21/

[Sokol 444]

Yeah,all we need is a new cockpit and chaff and flares and

PLA, and Warsaw counties skins!!!!

 

Or a Mig-21 -2000 upgrade

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig21/

 

support the idea of a lancer, textures are ready since years:

 

 

 

 

cheers

Sokol

[+Dave 2,322]

Ok where can I get that skin? That is awesome!

[Phantom Lover 0]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, give that to me!

 

Oh my god that looks awesome. I want that one.

[+Gepard 11,298]

I would think the MiG-21/93 update program which is in indian service under the name MiG-21BISON would be much better. R-77, R-73 missiles and a wide range of modern air to ground weapons. Much better than the Lancer

[+Dave 2,322]

Well lets make a decision here so we can get started. Gepard you in?

[+Gepard 11,298]

I would like to, but it is far beyond my capabilities. I'm not bad in terrain making, but planes, that is nearly terra incognita for me. But if i can help you, i will do it.

 

A link for some Bison pictures.

 

 

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/C...nt/MiG-21d.html

Edited January 3, 2007 by Gepard

[Phantom Lover 0]

Well, if I may have a statement on this, there are actually two versions of the Lancer. The LancerA, which is optimised for air to ground stuff and the LancerC which is the air to air version. The skin is one of an LancerC hence the light blue colour. The Lancers are also very capable fighters and it would be interesting to operate them together in their two roles to see how the concept works. I would be grateful to help you guys doing it, but I don´t know anything about modelling or texturing. But I have a load of informations and many photographs taken by myself during my recent trip to the Romanian Airforce. So if you´d like to do the Lancer I´m in.

 

They are also capable of bombing LGB´s and I have some detailed photos of the arnament including the missiles and bombs. So that´s it for know. Would be nice if we could work together on this one.

 

Greetings

Phantom Lover

Edited January 4, 2007 by Phantom Lover

[Sokol 444]

Well, if I may have a statement on this, there are actually two versions of the Lancer. The LancerA, which is optimised for air to ground stuff and the LancerC which is the air to air version. The skin is one of an LancerC hence the light blue colour. The Lancers are also very capable fighters and it would be interesting to operate them together in their two roles to see how the concept works. I would be grateful to help you guys doing it, but I don´t know anything about modelling or texturing. But I have a load of informations and many photographs taken by myself during my recent trip to the Romanian Airforce. So if you´d like to do the Lancer I´m in.

 

They are also capable of bombing LGB´s and I have some detailed photos of the arnament including the missiles and bombs. So that´s it for know. Would be nice if we could work together on this one.

 

Greetings

Phantom Lover

 

that is the air-to-ground version (obviously from pre-sp4-ages, as i did not update the insignia position to the new standard)

 

 

cheers

Sokol

[+Dave 2,322]

Sokol can I have those skins? Maybe I can throw something together until we get something more concrete. Seems we got good info. I know a couple guys who could get us in the right direction.

[Bulldog 0]

Here's the cockpits of the Lancer C and A:

 

 

 

More at: http://www.mig-21.de/english/technicaldataupgrades.htm

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I would think the MiG-21/93 update program which is in indian service under the name MiG-21BISON would be much better. R-77, R-73 missiles and a wide range of modern air to ground weapons. Much better than the Lancer

 

The Romanian LanceR does have R-73 and R-77 capability but I think there's a growing preference for western weapons systems for the newer EU nations hoping to remove themselves for the former Soviet spheare of influence. Which I can understand, if you've ever been forced to use those R-27s (admittedly, the R-27ER isn't too shabby). Plus I think the capabilities of the BISON and the LanceR aren't all that dissimilar except that the BISON is using israeli ECM, EW,RWR and I think it might even have a datalink for use with AWACS and Flankers.

 

Yeah, there was NATO sortie involving Romanian LanceRs in early 2K6, can't quite remember the exact details other than they performed as aggressors and apparantly wiped the floor with the RN harriers sqn and the French Jaguar sqn involved. If I can find the info, I'll post it.

[+Gepard 11,298]

I think you mix something. The Lancer is not BVR capable. There is no R-77 support by radar and also no R-73 capability. The Lancer can use the Sidewinder, but no modern russian waepons. In so far it is inferior to the 21/93.

[Phantom Lover 0]

Ok I think you mix something here! As I have learned during my visit to Romania last year, the LancerC is BVR capable. It has the Elta EL/M 2032 muli-mode radar with look-down/shoot-down capability. It has a new wide angle HUD and sophisticated HOTAS-conbtrols. And it has, because it was designed together with ELBIT from Israel, the Dash (Display and Sighting Helmet).

 

It can carry a wide variety of air-to-air weapons of both Western and Eastern origin, but not the Sidewinder. These include the Python 3 of Israeli origin, R-60 and also R-73. Also on the stores is the Mica Magic II which is also very capable. The R-77 could be fired but isn´t yet in the inventroy of the RoAF. It has also ordered the Python IV and V recently.

 

Refering to what SayWhat?! said, because it was also designed by ELBIT it has the same ECM,RWR and so on capability, by using special pods. They are said to be very good. The LancerA´s can also be equipped with the Litening II Laser Designator Pod.

 

I know that these LancerC´s have intercepted and shot-down Harrier GR.7´s and Jaguars. So make no misstake! These fighters are among the most capables in NATO-Inventory. And I bet they could give even an F-16 an hard time because of it´s look-down/shoot-down capability and the Dash. If they had a moving map in it they would be fourth-generation fighters! Just think about it. So this was my brief article about the LancerC. And no, I´m not from Romania.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Phantom Lover

[stalkervision 0]

http://www.mig-21.de/bilder/kabinelancera.jpg

 

 

Oh the cockpit is oh so nice.... :yes: I have read in some nato squadron exercises they have even given f-16's trouble. The Mig 21 was just waiting for this upgrade!

 

It can use modern Nato missiles also!

Edited January 5, 2007 by stalkervision

[+Gepard 11,298]

I doubt, that the romanians or even the israelis have the software to guide the R-77. Of course you can hang a R-77 on the pylons, but firing is completly different thing. If you would say, that the Lancer got the capability to fire the AMRAAM i would understand it. Perhaps the American sold this missiles and its guidance software. But i doubt that the russians sold the R-77 Adder software to Romania.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Gepard

[Phantom Lover 0]

Nope they don´t have anything to do with the Americans! Just read through my post above. All the weapons are listed there and this list is 100% complete. The Romanians certainly don´t have the ability to fire the R-77, but Israel has it. Elbit has worked together with RSK MIG on previous things, so this wouldn´t be a problem. But the radar of the LancerC lacks range, so this would not make sense.

 

That is the point where the Bison is superior. But in all other air-to-air things they equal pretty much. Hope this answers your doubts.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I've been hearing on the defence grapevine that Elbit was keen to add integration software into the LanceR C's to allow them to fire Amraam/Amraamski but it was rejected on the grounds of cost and capability. Even when Romania had their Mig-29s in service, Amraamski wasn't used (despite having the potential to upgrade the 29's radar for its use) and when the decision to updrade and maintain the 21s was made, using the R-77 didn't fit into the new operational profiles planned.

Romania did use ealier generation R-27s however, and they were considered suficient. The cost to upgrade to the requisite radars, plus buying a stock of new missiles as well as training for their propper use, not to mention storage and maintenance was considered too costly for an already cashstrapped AF. I dunno, from what I've been hearing, they seem to be doing nicely without them...

Edited January 10, 2007 by SayWhat?!

[Atreides 144]

I like the BISON upgrade IMHO. I think it offers better view ahead for the pilot as opposed to the lancer which still employs the use of the older windscreen. The BISON's single piece wraparound front is one of the main distinguishing external features in any upgraded Mig.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Yeah, I never got why the Sovs used to clutter up their cockpits like that! But then again, it was a common practice to have cluttered cockpits in the 50s and 60s.

[tomcat1974 0]

I've been hearing on the defence grapevine that Elbit was keen to add integration software into the LanceR C's to allow them to fire Amraam/Amraamski but it was rejected on the grounds of cost and capability.

using the R-77 didn't fit into the new operational profiles planned.

When the program started, R-77 was not in any invetory in the world and AIM-120 was too new to be sold to a non allied country which Romania was back then.

If you want to talk about a possible BVR missile on lancer then you are talking about Derby.

Romania did use ealier generation R-27s however, and they were considered suficient.

We spent all R-27 before retiring the Mig-29.

 

The cost to upgrade to the requisite radars, plus buying a stock of new missiles as well as training for their propper use, not to mention storage and maintenance was considered too costly for an already cashstrapped AF. I dunno, from what I've been hearing, they seem to be doing nicely without them...

Cost of the program was 300-400 Million $.

Contraire to many thought , Elta 2032 has a long range for the size of antena that is packed in that little cone.

Anyway the Lancers are close to their retirement from our air force :((.

New stuff is coming, no one ever know what, Ro Mod announced the amount of money that are available alone for Airforce acquisition (5 Billion Euros for fighters, air-air and air-ground ammo) and the need was for at least 48 new multirole planes.

[Sparkchaser2010 24]

So what's the word on this? Do we need a new MiG-21 model or just additions to Data?

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I would say we need an updated model with a new windshield! like those 21`s great cold war bird...