IRWR

[serverandenforcer 33]

Is there such a thing as an IR warning receiver? 'Cause the RWR only detects semi-active homing and active homing missiles. Heat seekers come up at you as a surprise.

[+Dave 2,322]

Yes there is. In fact MH-53's have them. So does MH-47's.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Yes there is. In fact MH-53's have them. So does MH-47's.

 

What about modern US fighters? Don't they have 'em? I'm sure that the F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s have 'em.

[JediMaster 451]

Depends on what you define as "IR warning". You can't detect an IR seeker because by default it is passive. You can't detect someone looking at you based on your own emissions. What CAN be detected are missile launches, using IR, ultraviolet, or some combination of the 2 frequencies. No matter if the missile is IR, RH, or command guided, as long as the missile can be seen during the boost phase from the craft, it can detect them. Obviously anything launched BVR wouldn't be detected, but as those are all RH, you don't need to worry.

 

You CAN have laser warning receivers, as many people do on their cars already.

 

As for which have which type of detectors, most jets do not, actually.

[+Dave 2,322]

What about modern US fighters? Don't they have 'em? I'm sure that the F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s have 'em.

No they don't as far as I know. From what I have been told the sets are too big and bulky install on them. Also they have a very limited range to the point where something say 15 miles away looking at them would not be detected.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Rats! That's cool. I was hoping that an IRWR did exist on one of those fighters. I keep getting popped by them. Fricken damn Ruskies!

[MigBuster 2,884]

Yes the Eurofighter has a DASS MAWs system that can detect infrared missile launches (developed by BAE Systems) - Not sure if it works though.

[JediMaster 451]

From what I understand, the problem with the missile launch detectors is a high rate of false alarms. They don't miss the real ones almost ever, it's announcing ones that aren't there that's the problem.

I remember one "sim" in the 90s gave you an IR missile detector, maybe one of the Jetfighter ones. They said "it doesn't exist now, but this takes place in the future, maybe by then!"

That doesn't change the physics of the fact that you can't detect an IR missile lock anymore than you can tell if someone on a rooftop 10 stories up is looking at you with a telescope unless you happen to look their way yourself. It's 100% passive.

[MigBuster 2,884]

the russian flankers have another radar.... the back radar,so u can detec some missiles came against You...

but i dont think is necessary use IRWR cause the range of IR missiles are so little(i think the biggest range IR missile is russian R-73 and it haves the range of 20Km) offcourse no pillot will intercept long range planes with one IR missile,when the pillot is "dogfighting" i think this is the best moment to use one IR missile.

 

A big issue is shoulder launched MANPADs - they can only be detected by eyesight but as pilot accounts from the 1991 gulf conflict show that the first they knew a missile was coming was when it hit them.

 

A good reason to have one against short range AAM's is that future counter measures could be deployed automatically where the pilot may not have time to respond himself.

 

Its essential that a good IRWR is in service soon.

[MigBuster 2,884]

But the acuraccy of the manpads isnt good,just with Helicopters and Light attack planes i think its real nescessary,the manpads cant shootdown nothing up 2.000 feet...

i remember the Brazilian Army exercice using the Russian Igla,the iglas havent a good accuracy against the AMXs and F-5s,and was hardly to lock the Tucanos...

i think all helcopters have been shoot down.

 

In Captain Dale Storrs Account (Warthog, William L Smallwood) he was passing through 10,000ft when his A-10 was hit by an IR SAM - guessed to be SA-16 (this was in the 1991 Gulf war btw) - never saw it coming!

[MigBuster 2,884]

Theres a bit about the SA-16 Igla 1 here and service ceiling:

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla

 

 

cheers

[FastCargo 412]

Automatic IR SAM missile detection and countermeasures already exist...in fact, we're testing on our aircraft...pretty much a bolt on system. And that's for civilian aircraft...

 

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/sto.../aw091806p3.xml

 

There are other IR missile detection technologies that exist and have been around a long time - you just needed the room to house the electronics.

 

And that's all I'll say about that...

 

FastCargo

[FastCargo 412]

i think the F-117 downed in Kosovo was Shoot down by a IR SAM too...

 

Not quite.

 

FastCargo

[FastCargo 412]

i Read something about the Enemy defenses intercept the F-117´s communications with the tatical air comand(Radio !O.o) and the SAM operators localizated where was F-117 in that moment and his heading and speed...so they put the SA-6(not sure) in position to Seek the IR signature of Night hawk.

 

Yes, and no. There are a few differences with what you read and what happened. But I don't know what is publically releaseable.

 

FastCargo

Edited June 4, 2007 by FastCargo

[t-50 0]

the F-22 and F-35 have IRWR but they have tiny receivers in all the aircraft skin and they detect all missile launch warnings and they don't confuse with false detections like the sun or flares

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jav/del04043.html

[+Brain32 265]

But I don't know what is publically releaseable.

 

FastCargo

 

Hmm that's pretty strange, considering that here even non-military personell like me knows quite accurately what happened, so if this info is protected in USA I can't help not to wonder who is it protected from?

 

Note, not that I'm complaining about it and I find CA policy on this HIGHLY understandable especially considering the employers of many member here!

It's just a bit funny, that's all ;-)

 

BTW if you find this post inappropriate(although I checked it 3 times to avoid that) feel free to remove it without explanation, I will understand :)

 

EDIT: 4 times lol

Edited April 15, 2009 by Brain32

[MigBuster 2,884]

Hmm that's pretty strange, considering that here even non-military personell like me knows quite accurately what happened,

 

But do you though ? :ph34r:

[zmatt 2]

the F-22 and F-35 have IRWR but they have tiny receivers in all the aircraft skin and they detect all missile launch warnings and they don't confuse with false detections like the sun or flares

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jav/del04043.html

 

After reading that I get the impression that it is essentially IR seeker heads hooked up to a computer that processes the information. Come to think of it, that seems like a pretty effective way to do it. Place them in the nose, wingtips, bell, and in the tail and you can get pretty much 360 coverage. The seekers in modern IR missiles can discriminate against things like the sun and reflections already. Why not use them to find other IR missiles?

[+Jarhead1 27]

Yes the Eurofighter has a DASS MAWs system that can detect infrared missile launches (developed by BAE Systems) - Not sure if it works though.

 

I would hate to have been the poor bastard that had to test that one out, lol.

[JediMaster 451]

Often times the difference between classified and unclassified info is only minor details. Others it is due to deliberate disinformation to protect methods/tactics/whatever.

If you always knew which way it was, it would defeat the purpose of having things classified in the first place.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Yes the Eurofighter has a DASS MAWs system that can detect infrared missile launches (developed by BAE Systems) - Not sure if it works though.

 

As to the DASS system from what I saw when I was looking the jet over and the brochures (aka It works honest but we wont say for definite) provided by BAE the system works with a 90% accuracy... but its a Missile Approach Warner so it advises on all missiles not just heat but radar and laser guided kit. More data on the following link :-

 

http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/defences.html

 

As to the shootdown of the F-117 it was a mix between an SA-3 that had been seriously worked over and a Mig-29 no-one is really sure... outside of the Stealth guys... also didn't help that they used the same ingress egress routes every night. This data is open source.

 

Anyway thats me 2 pence worth...

[zmatt 2]

I think ultimately we can say it was caused by complacency. Forget what weapons system took it down. If the stealth guys weren't so over confident and planned it like they were flying a conventional air craft then it would not have happened. Flexibility is the key to airpower!

[Atreides 144]

A bit too late but what the heck. Hey Server, found this intresting piece on Northrops website.

 

(DIRCM) Directional Infrared Countermeasures - Clicky

 

 

 

AH-64 with DIRCM.

 

On The C-17

 

 

DIRCM Suite.

 

Edited April 22, 2009 by Atreides

[+Typhoid 231]

But do you though ? :ph34r:

 

he thinks he does - but he doesn't.

 

and as FC said.

 

that's about all I'll say about that..............................

[+Brain32 265]

Hihihihi

 

 

that's about all I'll say about that..............................

Edited April 22, 2009 by Brain32