F-104 and Countermeasures

[Tantobot 0]

As I was installing the F-104S ASA models I was very curious as to how aircraft like the F-104 and other aircraft although updated to somewhat modern standards and expected to serve in the Mid 80's and early 90's would have survived in this era with out ECM's or Countermeasures. Did the F-104 ever have flares or chaff?

[+Dave 2,321]

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_33.html

 

This is a good read.

[Tantobot 0]

Thanks

[Bulldog 0]

Joe Baugher is always a good place to go for US aircraft info :fans:

[Wrench 9,748]

Well, lets see....

If you look at the data inis for the ASA, the ASA-M mod I just released, and the Knowledge Base, Creating a Country Specific Aircraft in which I used the KLU Zipper (and info supplied by DERK), you 'll see they DO have jammers. Just no expendables.

 

Baugher's site is the cat's meow for aircraft info, baby!!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Tantobot 0]

So how do you think those aircraft would have faired in combat? I am sure it would be interesting to see.

[Tantobot 0]

Also is there a way to reduce the vertical oscillation's that I experience when this cool aircraft has the autopilot active?

[Kirsten 0]

RNlAF F104's had Sanders ALQ-26 (?) ECM gear in their later operational life. According to a pilot it was quite effective.

Canadian Starfighters were equiped with ECM as well, with additional sensors under the rear fuselage.

As far as I know no chaff or flares. Will look it up,

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[Tantobot 0]

Cool thanks

[+ghostrider883 526]

Pakistani Starfighters were fitted with a flare dispenser.

In one of the MiG-21 vs F-104 engagements in the 1971 Indo-Pak War, an IAF MiG-21FL fired a K-13 at a PAF F-104A, it dispensed flares and broke away. That F-104A was eventually shot down by the MiG-21 using its GP-9 gunpod.

[+Crusader 2,078]

Many German F-104G's got a internal ECM Jammer and Chaff/Flare dispenser sometime in the 80's

Edited July 3, 2007 by Crusader

[Wrench 9,748]

Specs, please??? (locations, amount/type of expendables)

 

That way I can updated the KB for the Zippers!!

 

TIA!

Wrench

kevin stein

[MigBuster 2,879]

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_33.html

 

This is a good read.

 

Well it must have cost related but I would have taken the F-4 if I had the choice like them.

[Kirsten 0]

All right, some more research:

 

-RNlAF : from 07-1975 to 06-1980 a total of 68 F 104G's recieved the Sanders AN/ALQ 26 "multi-band trackbreaker"

internal ECM system (including RWR)

-RCAF : AN/ALR 45 RWR gear with sensors under the nose and rear fuselage in CF 104G

 

-Marineflieger: AN/ALE 40 N chaff/flare dispensers under rear fuselage and the possibility of podded AN/ALQ 167 ECM

or AN/ALE 43 chaff dispenser under thw wing for F104G

 

Aju,

 

Derk :scout:

[Wrench 9,748]

Thanks, Derk!

 

All mine already have the audio-only rwr, that 's the easy part.

 

The jammer 'go inside', so that's no problem.

 

Putting the ejector position on the wing would be the hardest part...probably just use the inner pylon position for the ejector 'mouth'....

 

something else to think about/play with over the holiday....

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Blade 339]

CM dispensers on Marineflieger F-104Gs:

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2660.htm

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2433.htm

 

AFAIK they were used from the early 1980s.

[Tantobot 0]

Is there anyway to stop the up and down movement when the F-104 is about 10,000FT on Autopilot?

[jtin 0]

This has been discussed in great detail at Thirdwire's forums, and from what I read, the autopilot and AI bounce up and down to look lively. If you looked across at your wingman and saw him flying in a straight line, you'd probably think he was asleep.

 

There is a fix at Column5's forums.

[Tantobot 0]

Ohh yeah I remember that LOL stupid me LOL

[+Crusader 2,078]

CM dispensers on Marineflieger F-104Gs:

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2660.htm

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/2433.htm

 

AFAIK they were used from the early 1980s.

 

yep...the typical "standard" scab-on dispenser type, with a capacity of 30 expendables each. The type of flares was changed in the 80's to a stronger type which took double the space, only 15 of this type can be stored in the dispenser.

So a "typical" 80's (late) setup would be 30 chaff and 15 flares.

[Kirsten 0]

Hey there Kevin,

 

About the Marineflieger F 104's: the AN/ALE-40's were installed on 48 planes fom March 1982 to June 1984 , while the last Navy Zipper was witdrawn in May 1987.....

The ALQ 163 ECM that was tried out at Manching and Yeovilton (UK) in 1985 was a podded system that could be mounted on the wing pylons, but AFAIK was never used operationally (see withdrawal date above)

The AN/ALE 43was a podded system too, so don't worry about wing mounts etc.

The whole thing was in my opinion rather a last minute thing that was only used for a VERY short period.....

 

Aju,

 

Derk