F-14 shoots down F-4...

[Hawk MMS 0]

I was reading about the F-14's combat record on line and stumbled across a wikipedia article that stated...

Blue on Blue EngagementAccording to the magazine AIR International, the F-14 have not just shot down Libyan and Iraqi aircraft, but also an USAF F-4 Phantom over the Mediterranean Sea in 1987. Former F-14 pilot, Dave "Hey Joe" Parsons, gives an account of the incident,^[4] that during an exercise a young F-14 pilot from VF-74 The Bedevilers received the call "Warning Red, Weapons Free", the young pilot was alarmed and asked his seasoned RIO if he was supposed to shoot, and the RIO replied "Yeah, go ahead and shoot 'em". The RIO of course meant to do a simulated attack, but the pilot misunderstood, armed an AIM-9 Sidewinder and fired at the RF-4C Phantom. The USAF crew did not know what hit them because there was no explosion when the Sidewinder hit the Phantom. The F-4 crew was picked up, and was quite demoralized before they were told what had actually happened as now they would not have the burden of losing a jet to unknown causes.

 

Joke cartoons quickly emerged such as, "USN 1 USAF 0" being faxed to the USAF. There was some retribution for the Navy because a few years earlier, a USAF exchange pilot flying with the same squadron that shot down the RF-4C in 1987 shot down his flight leader with a Sidewinder, so fax responses back to the USAF started "Now, we're even!"

 

 

Is this true?

[FastCargo 412]

Which part?

 

The F-14 downing a USAF F-4 is true. I remember when that came out in the news. I'm not sure about the exchange pilot story though.

 

FastCargo

[DWCAce 19]

I'll ask 'Hey Joe' and get an answer.

[Hawk MMS 0]

Amazing, how much of a career ender was that?

 

I remember a story about a hawk battery during Desert Shield launched a missile by accident. They were running a test or a sim and BAM away she went. W/O rear reference she blew.

 

That is one thing but, to actually shoot down a friendly while training. i would think that would get you flying for Southwest in no time.

[FastCargo 412]

That is one thing but, to actually shoot down a friendly while training. i would think that would get you flying for Southwest in no time.

 

Actually, it would probably get you NOT flying for ANY decent airline. Airlines don't take kindly to pilots with bad histories, and airlines DO find out about them...

 

However, friendly fire accidents have happened before and since. Each circumstance is different, and can have different outcomes based on the situation.

 

FastCargo

[Hawk MMS 0]

IMHO Southwest is not a decent airline, it was not a serious statement

I hate me some Southwest. The cattlecar of the sky. A, B or C my @$$. Why is it such a big deal to not assign a friggin' seat?

 

That is one expensive mistake.

[FastCargo 412]

That is one expensive mistake.

 

Not to their profit table. Southwest has been around since deregulation and is the only airline in the US to make a consistent profit every quarter except for one. One of the ONLY airlines in the US over the same time period to have never furloughed a pilot. They have some of the fastest turn-around times in the industry because they don't assign seats. Other passenger airlines WISHED they could control costs like SWA. And they are one of the few airlines in the US that can turn away passengers, because they are full.

 

It's a free country, so fly whatever airline you want. But not assigning seats a mistake? Hardly.

 

FastCargo

[Hawk MMS 0]

All i meant was shooting down an f-4 was an expensive mistake. sorry i didn't clarify. i am sitting at work ALL night bored. Just making 'conversation'.

[FOTF 0]

I fly SW all the time when I go down the coast for a little break. I love it....costs me 50 bucks each way....compared to the 200 + the other guys charge

[DWCAce 19]

'Hey Joe' verified the story, other than the part where they listed him as a pilot (he was a RIO).

 

On SWA's turn time: they are wicked fast, depending on where the plane came from, and where it's going.... When I get back to work, I'll try to time one of their turns when I'm not bustin my hump to fuel 'em.

[FastCargo 412]

Hey, plenty of people don't like the way SWA does business...and that's okay! Just bugs me when people say it's a bad business model, when it really isn't.

 

But you're right, I've pushed this topic WAAAYYY off course. Sorry if I was sounding a bit strident in my defense of SWA...I got hired there and know a LOT of guys who fly for them.

 

What I was trying to say is that every friendly fire incident is different, and different circumstances can result in different punishment outcomes. I'd be curious to know more details of the incident that maybe weren't released back then.

 

FastCargo

[Hawk MMS 0]

Understood.

I don't knock the men and women working for SWA either. I just hate the ABC thing.

 

Edited July 29, 2007 by USMC Hawker

[FastCargo 412]

Hey, no worries! There are times it bugs me too...especially if I'm in C group! :)

 

FastCargo

[N.Forsythe 0]

Well dah the F-14 is a Beter Dogfighter then the F-4 And i think that the F-14 replased the F-4 on aircraft carriers

[N.Forsythe 0]

i did not read the text i thowt it was a iranian F-14 VS US F-4 or something like that

Anyway how did that hapen? whouldn't aper Friendly on his hud??

Edited July 30, 2007 by N.Forsythe

[+Typhoid 231]

The F-14 shootdown of an RF-4C is absolutely true, but I recall it being in 1989 or 90. It happened as stated above during an exercise when the F-14 pilot (LCDR), IN AN EXERCISE, took the calls for real and let loose.

 

Everything worked perfectlly; the missile, the warhead, the ejection seats, the parachutes, the SAR......

 

on the 6th Fleet staff we got the report (I was on the staff, in the meeting but thankfully missed that event!) and the VADM who was always level, never swore, never lost his temper - asked "Is the E#!@$#^% dead yet?"

 

defineately a career ender. He was off the carrier before we were ever briefed and had his wings pulled and told to "seek another line of work".

 

Things were rather "tense" between the 6th Fleet Staff and the 16AF staff in Torrejon for awhile.

 

[FastCargo 412]

defineately a career ender. He was off the carrier before we were ever briefed and had his wings pulled and told to "seek another line of work".

 

Things were rather "tense" between the 6th Fleet Staff and the 16AF staff in Torrejon for awhile.

 

Definitely a 'Sundowner' then. As in 'Be gone before sundown...'.

 

FastCargo

[JediMaster 451]

The guy was an O-5 that did it? Wow, that's certainly a blow as he was certainly hoping to at least retire an O-6, I'm sure.

[+Typhoid 231]

The guy was an O-5 that did it? Wow, that's certainly a blow as he was certainly hoping to at least retire an O-6, I'm sure.

 

LCDR is an O-4. Based on his demonstrated headwork (lack thereof) those of us on the fleet staff were astonished that he had made it that far. He was gone in very short order.

[JediMaster 451]

Oh, I missed the L, thought it said CDR! Still, it is surprising he got that far. Maybe that was because during that time period there had been more leniency WRT promotions?

[+Typhoid 231]

Oh, I missed the L, thought it said CDR! Still, it is surprising he got that far. Maybe that was because during that time period there had been more leniency WRT promotions?

 

that and the fact that his daddy was an Admiral might have had something to do with it.....

[JediMaster 451]

LOL! That would certainly be a factor.

[MURc 0]

yes totaly true , the Be-Deviler was about to be promoted to Admiral but things went bad :)

http://www.washingtonian.com/projects/admiral/index.html

[+Gepard 11,303]

Blue to Blue. Shit happens.

We had Red to Red too.

The soviets downed a czech MiG-21 over the southeast of the GDR and polish MiGs killed a czech Su-7.

So what. The pilots survived, all went well. The polish gave one of their Su-7 to the czech and the soviets delivered a new MiG-21.

[+daddyairplanes 10,243]

Very true gepard. But i don't think, esp under the old system, that the pilots that shot down the planes were later eligible for promotion too general! That has been the big deal about this thread.....