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BUFF

Ouch!

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In situations like that, it's best to just walk away nonchalantly and hope nobody notices. It worked when I put my fathers car through the garage when I was a kid (ok, it didn't work then either :no: )

 

LMAO just thinking about the guy walking away, whistling a cool song and looking like an innocent :rofl:

 

That said, they were 11 woundeds in the accident, and three of them are in bad shape...

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Heh Guess they had an anti-skid failure during the run-up.

 

 

No, I'm kidding. It just reminded me though of when my airplane suffers an anti-skid failure you loose hydraulics for both the brakes and the nosewheel steering.

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obviously, that was a suicidal wall that rammed the plane. Probably Al Queda.

 

is it just me, or are Airbuses allways crashing, or being crashed? they seem REALLY accident prone.

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is it just me, or are Airbuses allways crashing, or being crashed? they seem REALLY accident prone.

 

 

Nope, not just you. It's happening!

 

 

"Scare-bus" LOL

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Typical Airbus accident. They have computers that automaticly override or make critival flight decsions that sometimes countermand or conflict with normal operations of the aircraft. Most likely this was one of the computer decsions that automaticly releases the brakes at a takeoff throttle settings. This feature is on ALL airbusses to prevent the pilot from overstressing the airframe on the ground. A famous crash of an Airbus took place when the computer delayed the pilots throttle command by 10 seconds and overrode his full up control input. thats the one where it flies into the woods at the end of th runaway during a slow low pass. I was working at PWA at the time and the series 4000 has FADEc witha spool up safety limeter to keep the compressor from stalling it spools up the engine as fast as it can without stalling it. Airbus thought this spool up was still to fast and added another delay to slow the throttle response. They tried blaming PWA but PWA proved thay had tampered with the FADEC programing the spool up time. another incident witha A380 happened in Bermuda wher the computer kept overiding the pilot during apporach and auto engaging the go around. This happend for two hours until the palne went dry and they glided in. Airbus airframes are not safe at all! I will not get on an Airbus and have canceled flights to stay of them.

 

Edited for redundancy.

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Typical Airbus accident. They have computers that automaticly override or make critival flight decsions that sometimes countermand or conflict with normal operations of the aircraft. Most likely this was one of the computer decsions that automaticly releases the brakes at a takeoff throttle settings. This feature is on ALL airbusses to prevent the pilot from overstressing the airframe on the ground. A famous crash of an Airbus took place when the computer delayed the pilots throttle command by 10 seconds and overrode his full up control input. thats the one where it flies into the woods at the end of th runaway during a slow low pass. I was working at PWA at the time and the series 4000 has FADEc witha spool up safety limeter to keep the compressor from stalling it spools up the engine as fast as it can without stalling it. Airbus thought this spool up was still to fast and added another delay to slow the throttle response. They tried blaming PWA but PWA proved thay had tampered with the FADEC programing the spool up time. another incident witha A380 happened in Bermuda wher the computer kept overiding the pilot during apporach and auto engaging the go around. This happend for two hours until the palne went dry and they glided in. Airbus airframes are not safe at all! I will not get on an Airbus and have canceled flights to stay of them.Typical Airbus accident. They have computers that automaticly override or make critival flight decsions that sometimes countermand or conflict with normal operations of the aircraft. Most likely this was one of the computer decsions that automaticly releases the brakes at a takeoff throttle settings. This feature is on ALL airbusses to prevent the pilot from overstressing the airframe on the ground. A famous crash of an Airbus took place when the computer delayed the pilots throttle command by 10 seconds and overrode his full up control input. thats the one where it flies into the woods at the end of th runaway during a slow low pass. I was working at PWA at the time and the series 4000 has FADEc witha spool up safety limeter to keep the compressor from stalling it spools up the engine as fast as it can without stalling it. Airbus thought this spool up was still to fast and added another delay to slow the throttle response. They tried blaming PWA but PWA proved thay had tampered with the FADEC programing the spool up time. another incident witha A380 happened in Bermuda wher the computer kept overiding the pilot during apporach and auto engaging the go around. This happend for two hours until the palne went dry and they glided in. Airbus airframes are not safe at all! I will not get on an Airbus and have canceled flights to stay of them.

 

Yeeeaaahhh, nah, I'm still going with the "Oops, someone left it in drive" theory. :smile:

 

Remeber, make sure it's in neutral when you get in folks!

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is it just me, or are Airbuses allways crashing, or being crashed? they seem REALLY accident prone.

They also happen to Boeings ( & other makes too e.g. the recent spate of Dash 8 accidents) with great regularity.

As always we'll have to await the investigation results getting out.

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Typical Airbus accident. They have computers that automaticly override or make critival flight decsions that sometimes countermand or conflict with normal operations of the aircraft. Most likely this was one of the computer decsions that automaticly releases the brakes at a takeoff throttle settings. This feature is on ALL airbusses to prevent the pilot from overstressing the airframe on the ground.

 

You may know a lot about engines...but you don't know enough about Airbuses (Airbi?). This feature most certainly does NOT exist on any Airbus I fly.

 

A famous crash of an Airbus took place when the computer delayed the pilots throttle command by 10 seconds and overrode his full up control input. thats the one where it flies into the woods at the end of th runaway during a slow low pass. I was working at PWA at the time and the series 4000 has FADEc witha spool up safety limeter to keep the compressor from stalling it spools up the engine as fast as it can without stalling it. Airbus thought this spool up was still to fast and added another delay to slow the throttle response. They tried blaming PWA but PWA proved thay had tampered with the FADEC programing the spool up time.

 

Which would be a problem...if the A320 had PW4000 engines.

 

That particular A320 has CFM56 engines, made by GE and SNECMA which also have a FADEC. Now, the A320 also comes with IAE V2500 engines, of which parts (the 'hot' section) are derived from the PW4000 series...but are not considered PW4000 engines, nor were on this aircraft.

 

Now, there are anomalies with that particular accident, including possible FADEC issues. But nothing to do with P/W...unless they supplied the FADEC.

 

another incident witha A380 happened in Bermuda wher the computer kept overiding the pilot during apporach and auto engaging the go around.

 

This would be interesting...considering the A380 only just started service with Singapore Airlines...and as far as I know, doesn't provide service to Bermuda yet.

 

This happend for two hours until the palne went dry and they glided in.

 

Sure you're not thinking of the Air Transnat flight that 'dead sticked' into the Azores due to a fuel leak? I haven't seen any information about 'forced go-around to dry tanks' with an Airbus. I'd be happy if you could provide a source showing me wrong.

 

Airbus airframes are not safe at all! I will not get on an Airbus and have canceled flights to stay of them.

 

Certainly your choice. I will tell you Boeings and McD aircraft certainly have their own issues. Chafing wires causing fires and explosions, twichy computer pitch controls causing 5000+ foot altitude excursions, tailstrikes and crashes in the landing mode, etc.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I tend to like Boeings more than Airbuses (Airbi) having been qualified in and flown both...and that's 'flown' as in 'being a pilot of' not riding along.

 

But I don't consider Airbuses unsafe. ALL aircraft have their individual quirks which can put you in a crack if you let them.

 

FastCargo

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They also happen to Boeings ( & other makes too e.g. the recent spate of Dash 8 accidents) with great regularity.

As always we'll have to await the investigation results getting out.

 

I dunno... I haven't seen a '47 with a crew that seemed to have forgotten about the feature that overrides breaks at full throttle lately. It seems that Airbus' downfall is their extensive automation. I've been weary of airbuses and their crews since one destined for the airport at my city accidentially made an approach to a much smaller airport about 30 miles north and allmost bought the farm. They had to firewall it, and that horrible throttle response came into effect. Luckily, it had a light load, so we didn't have to go fishing for A320.

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I dunno... I haven't seen a '47 with a crew that seemed to have forgotten about the feature that overrides breaks at full throttle lately.

 

Okay, I want someone here to show me a reference that says Airbuses have this feature. Show me where it says this and I'll stop harping about it. Because as of right now, such a feature does NOT exist on the A300/310, and I haven't seen any references to it in the A320 family either.

 

Convince me.

 

It seems that Airbus' downfall is their extensive automation. I've been weary of airbuses and their crews since one destined for the airport at my city accidentially made an approach to a much smaller airport about 30 miles north and allmost bought the farm.

 

Hmmm...that's called pilot error. You know, such as the crash of regional jet that tried a takeoff on the wrong runway. Or the B757 that crashed short of the runway in Columbia because they set the wrong altitude. I could go on.

 

They had to firewall it, and that horrible throttle response came into effect. Luckily, it had a light load, so we didn't have to go fishing for A320.

 

Large turbofans have slower response times than your average military jet...especially at idle to firewall power. Horrible throttle response time? As compared to what? A F-22?

 

I've flown Boeings, McDs, and Airbus...been (or currently) qualified in each. Let me dispel this misinformation right now.

 

Throttle-wise, a CFM56 seems just as responsive and powerful no matter if in a Boeing, Airbus, or McD. If there are any differences, they are minor. Period.

 

Lots of fellow pilots in all airframes on both sides of the issue of automation philosophy...which should tell you something...like maybe an Airbus isn't HAL, and a Boeing isn't 'slide rule and duct tape'.

 

Hey, you like one philosophy or another, not a problem. I personally like the 'side-stick' of the newer Airbus, but prefer the 'soft-limits' of a Boeing.

 

But show me official documentation of 'horrible response time' or 'brakes that auto release on full throttle' or 'go around to dry tanks'.

 

FastCargo

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I've been weary of airbuses and their crews since one destined for the airport at my city accidentially made an approach to a much smaller airport about 30 miles north and allmost bought the farm.

Well, a Boeing B-52 did a display here over the wrong airfield (5 miles or so) a couple of years ago - quite embarassing really as everybody at the right airfield could see them & knew that they had screwed up ...

 

As FastCargo said though that's a human problem & not the airframe's.

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I never said the '20 landed in the wrong place because of the plane, I was just supporting my statement about airbuses being accident prone. Bad juju, maaaannn. Also, I don't know if the 'bus really does have brake override, but what else could have caused that crash? Twitchy feet? The whole throttle response thing is I suppose compared to the Cessnas I fly, and yes, I know. No comparison at all. I shouldn't have used the word "horrible", because the response was good enough to keep them out of the drink.

 

"slide rule and duct tape" :haha: That's what the '27 seems like....

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Also, I don't know if the 'bus really does have brake override, but what else could have caused that crash? Twitchy feet?

 

How about this accident?

 

1.jpg

 

Or this one?

 

disater2000.nw.brake8.GIF

 

Or this?

 

1.jpg

 

There are many ways to have an inadvertent ground excursion in an aircraft...none of them involving a fictional 'auto brake release' system.

 

Hell, the brakes could be LOCKED, and at firewall power, a lot of aircraft will simply start skidding without the wheels turning.

 

FastCargo

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The initial statement is making it look like human error.

1) apparently it was unchocked

2) the aircraft was moving for ~10 seconds before they closed the throttles & it impacted 2 seconds later.

Now I'm not a pilot but surely 1 of the first things that you would think of doing was closing the throttles? :huh:

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There are many ways to have an inadvertent ground excursion

 

FastCargo

 

"Inadvertent ground excursion" I love that! The guy that plows the snow in the parking lot at work is always running into things and it's my job to do the paperwork. Next time it happens I'm going to refer to it as an I.G.E. and send the report on to the insurance company. Should be good for a laugh.

 

P.S. Before you ask, I don't know why we still employ him if he keeps hitting stuff.

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Now I'm not a pilot but surely 1 of the first things that you would think of doing was closing the throttles? :huh:

 

That would be the case Buff....if they realized it was moving in the first place. I've had a situation when we were told to position and hold and was given the controls as I was putting the checklist away. I thought we were completely stopped, and looking inside as I was couldn't tell the airplane was slightly rolling...until I pressed the brakes with a bit of force and the last fraction of momentum was shed with a jolt. The same thing happened on another occasion as a Captain claimed the controls back from me after clearing the runway. Numorous times we have had the parking brake set in line to takeoff, and pressure has bled off and the plane starts ever so slowly to roll. Your first sense is the slight movement from the corner of your eye and your reaction is "!!Are we really moving!!?? You tend to see the movement before you feel it due to the airplane's natural vibrations.

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