Taking a back seat?

[FastCargo 412]

As most of you know, I'm building the T-38A/B/C and F-5B...all of which are 2 seaters.

 

Northrop 2 seater family

 

Now, the TW engine does not simulate 2 seat operations, so most of this would be for appearance only.

 

The question though...being that these are 2 seat aircraft...from which cockpit would you prefer to fly?

 

The front:

 

 

Or the back?

 

 

If I did back cockpit operations...I wouldn't have any 'cheater' stuff enabled...no gunsights available from the back...like the real thing.

 

However, realize that 2 of the aircraft would be completely unarmed (well, except for harsh language) and 1 of the aircraft doesn't even have a HUD.

 

Comments welcome.

 

FastCargo

[triplethr3at 0]

If I remeber correctly one must use two seperata aircraft one for front cockpit and one for back. It would be great if you could make it that way and I don't think it would be inconveniant at all to just pick a new aircraft if I want to fly in the back or the front. so keep up teh great work. 10 thumbs up

 

 

 

 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

[+Dave 2,322]

Build them all FC. ANd I think flying from both front and back would be cool.

 

Did you check your PM's?

[FastCargo 412]

The issue isn't if it's possible. The issue is if I want to build EIGHT separate cockpits...I could see myself getting burnt out with the whole project long before that.

 

FastCargo

[triplethr3at 0]

Ultimately its your decision. Would i Like it to have all backseat cockpits? Ya. So would everyone here withought a doubt But I wont be a d!ck and tell you to make 8 cockpits. It shouldnt be as hard as making 8 cockpits more like making 2 and 6 variants of the two. I'll be happy with whatever you make.

 

Not having the HUD is ok but not being able to shoot anything or atleast jetison stuff would kill the fun in my oppinion. The only reason I play this game is so that I can blow stuff up. If I wanted to just fly I would play Flight Simulator.

Edited January 12, 2008 by triplethr3at

[+Dave 2,322]

The issue isn't if it's possible. The issue is if I want to build EIGHT separate cockpits...I could see myself getting burnt out with the whole project long before that.

 

FastCargo

 

Build one that people can interchange at will. May not be all correct but if anyone expects you to build 8 pits they are crazy. I think one generic one will be fine.

[+ST0RM 145]

I think that you should stick with the front cockpit. My opinion is that the limited view from the back will put the average player off. Nice idea if it was more of a missionized cockpit, like on the F-15E or F/A-18F.

 

Storm

[+Jarhead1 27]

It would be cool to fly from the back in my opinion.

[triplethr3at 0]

The back cocpkpit is kind of a novelty. Not so much practical but more cool.

[+wilco 11]

Well, if it can't shoot, I'd like to take the backseat, that would add some variety

[hide86 0]

Well, you COULD use weapons in the back cockpit: you just make an invisible hud, and that's it: you can lock on and shoot whatever you want...Not a great thing for situation consciousness but one could live with it... You're still flying as an instructor, right? LOL

Just a purpose, don't kill me, FastCargo! XD

However, a billion thumbs up for your great work, keep it up!

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Piece of Pie. Also, a great idea for heavier strike aircraft or all weather interceptors where gun dogfighting won't happen against heavier strike aircraft. These two types of aircraft were made to meet each other in the strategic skies....well not exactly, as one type tried to avoid the other type through speed and/or altitude.

 

You only need one (1) aircraft modelled. You only need two (2) COCKPIT.ini files and two (2) DATA.ini files. These are easily swapped in the two lines in the Aircraft.ini that define which cockpit/data file to use.

 

For example...here using DogSabreTeam's F-86D cockpit chopped and slipped inside Pasko's F-94B two seat interceptor external model...granted this has guns, but it was primarily intended for use against heavy bombers, and the F-94 is one of my faves!

 

Rear seat --- the lines of canopy frame bolts I later managed to remove from view...

 

 

F-94 discussion ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...sc&start=72

 

By request from vulkan, details on how to setup easy seat swapping, scroll down to L-39 2-seat trainer near the bottom of this page

B-52 and L-39 ~> http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...asc&start=8

[FastCargo 412]

Lexx,

 

Glad you popped up in this thread...your various threads on the TW forum is what enabled me to consider the idea in the first place. The screenshots I have posted are from the actual aircraft model flown from the 'inside'. I deliberately made the interior more detailed than needed in order to make it look 'better' to be flown from the front or back seat (3 dimensional canopy parts, detailed shapes of the ejection seat, etc).

 

However, it isn't a matter of making it look passable from either seat. I want it to look CORRECT to the best of my ability. Which requires another level of detail up from what I would be willing to put on the external model. The real cockpits are different from each other. I don't like the idea of a generic cockpit because it wouldn't look right...

 

Now, having said that...being that 2 of the aircraft are unarmed, flying from the front wouldn't really be much different from flying any other aircraft with no weapons (except in the case of air racing...or recon). So how to make it challenging? Fly it from the back. Try landing smoothly from the back...or hooking up to the tanker...

 

Or a better challenge. In the AT-38B (which is armed) and T-38C (which is not), IFF instructors teach guys how to do ACM, but the instructor is teaching from the back seat...not just talking, but actually flying the aircraft. Including getting a guns solution...and they still have no HUD back there. They do it eyeball style. That would be a challenge...keeping tally on your target 'through' the student's nugget.

 

I guess the only reason I bring it up is that flying a 2 seater from the front seat only seems kind of dull...why have a 2 seater (assuming it's not a WSO/RIO setup, like in F-14s, F-4s, etc) if you can't see what it's like back there?

 

However, the view from the front is such a nice one...and having a HUD (especially in the F-5, where you're doing all sorts of weapons stuff) would be nice...

 

Please keep the comments coming.

 

FastCargo

[markkyle66 0]

FC, you're T-38's are looking sharp! Very cool plane and glad your helping bring one to the SF/WOV series. Seeing a rear-seat pit in this series not only adds a new level of realism or a cool idea, but a breath of fresh air. Maybe it'll spur on some guys more talented that me to take that idea to the F-4's F-105's and Tomcats! Glad to see someone try it! Keep up the great work!

[+101tfs 4]

I found that in the B-26K pack you can change to the nevigator`s seat by the tail hook key.

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I know they wouldn't be that exciting but some training missions would be cool once these are out.

[sparkomatic 7]

man...hard to imagine all of these options...I remember when we finally got rockets added to the game it was like Superbowl Sunday...

[+streakeagle 871]

Given that you don't have the time or interest in doing both front and back seats...

My interest is in having the T-38A as flown by the Thunderbirds, so my vote is for the front seat.

[+Dave 2,322]

I want to sit in the back, where the instructor sits. That way when the newb almost kills me, I can reach forward and slap the hell out of him. It reminds me of that little Plexiglas cut out in the Yak 52. It is just big enough to fit a rolled up chart though and hit the student pilot in the back of the head when they do something stupid.

 

 

What do yo know? You fly helos, so you probably want a side by side pit the T-38.....joking... Hell you would probably push the student out of the chopper....

[FastCargo 412]

I want to sit in the back, where the instructor sits. That way when the newb almost kills me, I can reach forward and slap the hell out of him. It reminds me of that little Plexiglas cut out in the Yak 52. It is just big enough to fit a rolled up chart though and hit the student pilot in the back of the head when they do something stupid.

 

Hehe...the 38 has a glass partition between the seats...so no direct slapping. However, a 'canopy slap' is almost as good.

 

Simply take the aircraft, fly straight and level for a bit, then go full stick deflection left or right and enjoy the satisfying 'clonk!' as the student's head hits the canopy...

 

Now, I have NEVER done this on purpose...usually it was a 'Oh ****!!' moment while I was flying where I needed to quickly roll left or right (usually birds in the face...though the occasional excessive formation closure rate problem would be another reason) and the student wasn't ready and so he got surprised.

 

But boy, I've sure thought about it sometimes...makes me all warm and fuzzy... .

 

FastCargo

[+Corktip_14 0]

Hehe...the 38 has a glass partition between the seats...so no direct slapping. However, a 'canopy slap' is almost as good.

 

Simply take the aircraft, fly straight and level for a bit, then go full stick deflection left or right and enjoy the satisfying 'clonk!' as the student's head hits the canopy...

 

It's kinda pervert, but that must be really good

[FastCargo 412]

Progress.

 

As mentioned, for the F-5s, I plan to use the MF F-5 pits...makes sense, why duplicate effort.

 

Surprisingly, they work pretty well. Even got the mirrors to work properly.

 

Here are 2 shots of the MF F-5A cockpit in my F-5B:

 

 

 

The canopy bow you see there is the external model. Note in the first picture you can actually see the backseater's canopy open. You'll be able to see the canopy open and close from inside the aircraft.

 

Learning a lot here...

 

FastCargo

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Wow yeah I like.

 

:yes:

[echoco 0]

HI, I've been following your T-38 development and looking forward to it. Don't really like air force aircraft much but the T-38 is different especially if I could fly in the back seat, just to be different and since there's no weapons anyway.

 

Also this gave me an idea, if other aircrafts like F-5F, F-4, F/A-18D... had the back seat version then I'd really love to fly missions as the back seater. Put the aircraft on auto pilot and guide weapons all day long.