+column5 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Bout to give up on this one....need some FM help here please Send it over and I can take a look... Quote
Guest a10boar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Since North Vietnamese pilots generally avoided combat with their American counterparts, the F-102 had few opportunities to engage in its primary role of air combat. However, the Deuce was adapted for close air support starting in 1965. Delta Daggers armed with unguided rockets made attacks on Viet Cong encampments to harass enemy soldiers, and the aircraft's heat-seeking air-to-air missiles were even used to lock onto enemy campfires at night. Though the F-102 had not been designed for this type of combat, the plane was surprisingly effective and pilots often reported secondary explosions coming from their targets. An Aviation Week article of the period credited the 509th FIS, an F-102 squadron stationed in Vietnam, with destroying 106 buildings, damaging 59 more, sinking 16 sampans, and destroying one bridge during 199 sorties over the course of 45 days. The manufacturer Convair proposed a series of upgrades to build upon these promising results and further improve the design's ground attack capabilities, but the concept was dropped due to Air Force funding constraints. 2 questions come to mind here;1)How hot are these campfires for a heatseeker to home in on?2)NVA pilots avoided air combat with US pilot's?Sure training was better for US pilots and this could be my answer.But,knowing most MiG's could out turn a lot of it's western counterparts,right?Or was it better armament? Quote
+column5 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 1)How hot are these campfires for a heatseeker to home in on? 800 to 900 degrees F for a wood-fueled campfire. Quote
Guest a10boar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) 800 to 900 degrees F for a wood-fueled campfire. Wow,that's pretty easy is to do with wood fires.Would not think it would be smart to have a camp fire anyhow in warzone.Kinda of a deathwish huh?Do you think this could be in game?Bet the campfires would be hard to make.F-102 was one of my first models and became a favorite very fast. Edited April 13, 2009 by a10boar Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 800 to 900 degrees F for a wood-fueled campfire. I used to Tone Check AIM-9L's with a Zippo Lighter....... Quote
Guest a10boar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I used to Tone Check AIM-9L's with a Zippo Lighter....... Now just cool!Heatseekers seem to be sensitive to heat more so than I thought.Glad to have ask the question.Set as low as 150-250 degrees F maybe on latter models? Quote
zmatt Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 That was for the Lima though. It was solid state and all aspect. Could you expect the same from AIM-4s and Echo Sidewinders? Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) That was for the Lima though. It was solid state and all aspect. Could you expect the same from AIM-4s and Echo Sidewinders? Yep, If one is standing only a Foot away.......lol For the "E's" and AIM-4's, The FOV was more narrow than the "L's", But still relied on a heat source. There were many Reports by Pilots in Vietnam that their IR Missles would lock-on to Reflections off of Rice Paddies durning clear Weather. Edited April 13, 2009 by 331Killerbee Quote
Guest a10boar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Yep, If one is standing only a Foot away.......lol For the "E's" and AIM-4's, The FOV was more narrow than the "L's", But still relied on a heat source. There were many Reports by Pilots in Vietnam that their IR Missles would lock-on to Reflections off of Rice Paddies durning clear Weather. That's a lot to think about for those pilots.Too many varibles but,guess that's why we have better missles today due to trial and error. Here's a pic from internet of F-102 base during Vietnam.It's now my avatar,Just love this aircraft! Edited April 13, 2009 by a10boar Quote
Guest a10boar Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Can see the rocket pods in the door clearly.Thanks for the pic. Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Those are AIM-4's. The Rocket Pods would be hung off the Outboard Stations where the Guy standing, leaning on the Drop Tanks. Here's another..... Quote
mppd Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Umm, actually the 2.75 inch rockets were located IN the four center doors, three tubes per door, two rockets per tube, for a total of 24 rockets. When the AIM-26 mod was done starting in 1960-61, the rockets in the center door were completely eliminated (the nuclear Falcon had larger fins requiring cut-outs in the center doors, which forced elimination of the launching tubes). These carried only 12 rockets, 6 each in the outer two doors. The 509th FIS at Clark and TDY in SEA had some of both initially, and eventually had all Fig. 8s (the IR mod was made to these nuc-falcon modified birds). Mike D. Edited April 13, 2009 by mppd Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I'll have to dig up the source, But I have it reported that LAU-61's could be hung on the Outboards with the Door Tubes, This would give the 102 a whopping 62 FFAR's it could use...... I'll look for the Resource. Edited April 13, 2009 by 331Killerbee Quote
mppd Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 See, I could open my big mouth and say that I really doubt this...but after being proven wrong on MORE than one occasion, I'll keep it shut!! Let us know if you can dig anything up on this. Mike Quote
+NGHENGO Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 See, I could open my big mouth and say that I really doubt this...but after being proven wrong on MORE than one occasion, I'll keep it shut!! Let us know if you can dig anything up on this. Mike Mike i'm ready Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Mike, I'll find it. I should have saved the Link (Like I usally do). But the Article was from a Pilot that Flew with the 509th and was about the deployment of the F-102 in Vietnam. I remember Him stating that durning one rotation from the Philippines, The Squadron was tasked some Truck Interdiction. He stated that on one Sortie, LAU-61's were loaded to the Outboard Stations. Though rare, It was done. Mainly the reason it being Rare, Is that the Squadron's Avionics Techs had to install Wiring to the Outboard Drop Tank Harness for it to work. He said He flew one of the Missions with the Lau-61's and was amazed that the Air Force didn't follow up on this Configuration. He stated 52 2.75 Rockets were ideal for destroying the Trucks in Route package 9. I'll find it.....It's a matter of Time.... Edited April 13, 2009 by 331Killerbee Quote
mppd Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Is this it? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa38...12/ai_n9007941/ Here is a photo of the doors - Edited April 13, 2009 by mppd Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Mike i'm ready Well.......Spit it out if You've found it..... Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Close, but not it......I think the same Guy wrote both Articles as the Vietnam Section of the Page You listed. Still looking... Quote
+331Killerbee Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I can't find the Article....I'm going to the CACTA's.... Quote
sugarblues Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Very nice - the 106 is sexy, but I've always thought the 102 looked even better! SB Quote
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