Georgia moves against separatists

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I thought I heard the Russians were destroying Georgian ships at their Black Sea port. Moving their forces into western Georgia towards the Black Sea. Maybe taking over Ajaria which has half their population as Muslim. This ain't over by a long shot yet.

 

Russia masses naval force opposite Georgia’s third sensitive region, Ajaria

-Story Here-

There are surely genocides there too...

[eraser_tr 29]

I can't wait for Creative Assembly's next game after Empire: Total War. A 20th century iteration is an obvious direction and then we can just resolve this virtually.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I can't wait for Creative Assembly's next game after Empire: Total War. A 20th century iteration is an obvious direction and then we can just resolve this virtually.

 

If we had the Civilization series back in the forties, I could think of about 50 million people who might have had a second chance at life...

[+whiteknight06604 934]

One simple question: 20 000 habitants of Tshinvaly is sleeping, MLRS & Artillery stike starrted waterline is off, fire started all hills surrounding site on enemy hands, it's shoting on every moving targets include firemens, then >50 georgian tanks and infantry entered on site and kill everybody who is met. How time needed is this cause to kill 7% site habitants (1500) ?

 

P.S. in 08,09 Avg only russians channels gived direct TV translation from Tshinvali with heavy risk journalists life. Most on this video you never seen on CNN, why? Because Georgia is most important USA sattelite on caucasus.

 

Position "If I did not see it on CNN it's not possible" is direct way to hell...

 

 

Some western journalist were shot by Russians(accidently) in an area the Russians say they were not.And When Russia was saying they were not in Gori News crews were filming a Russian armour column moveing deep in the city.once that was aired thats when Russia changed it's story and said they were in Gori but they were leaving.there are many lies on both sides,please don't think that there is jut one bad guy in this both sides are doing terrible things and it has been documented.The world KNOWS even if the people involved deny it to their own people.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

This just in on ABC (Australia). Have a looksee HERE

 

The reporter, Matt Brown, is known as being a very factual, thorough, independent and respected journalist.

[+lindr2 19]

 

South Osetia TV capture

 

http://dpmoney.ru/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=...c3&open=sec

[kesegy 5]

Russia's foreign minister declared Thursday that the world "can forget about" Georgia's territorial integrity, and American and Georgian officials said Russia appeared to be targeting military infrastructure — including radars and patrol boats at a Black Sea naval base and oil hub.

link-->here

 

"peacekeeping" at its finest.

[+lindr2 19]

 

South Osetia TV capture

 

http://dpmoney.ru/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=...c3&open=sec

[Roopod 0]

This is the annexation of Georgia by Russia. They are in the process of taking over Poti, which is Georgia's main port and where one of the offshoot pipeline ends. There isn't a doubt that one of the strategic goals is the control of gas and oil pipelines that traverse the region. The Bear seems to have licked his wounds since 1991 and is now healthy enough to roam and maul anyone he pleases. Russia says Georgian territorial integrity is irrelevant. I wonder what other countries does Russia consider having irrelevant territorial integrity?

-Story Here-

 

Russian Calls the Operation Finished, 'Inexistent' Tanks Remain in Poti

-Story Here-

Edited August 14, 2008 by Roopod

[+lindr2 19]

 

Russian version (machine translation, may have errors)

 

The Russian peacemakers again refuted reports about the capture of Poti

 

The representative of staff of the Russian peacemakers in the area of conflict refuted reports that the Russian troops allegedly occupied the Georgian city Poti. Peacemakers assert that no cities and settlements they occupied. Russian soldiery specified, that near cities Gory, Senaki, and Poti, where large military storages are, peacemakers found plenty of military equipment, weapon and live ammunitions, abandoned by retreating Georgian soldiery. Russian soldiery take storages under control, "..For this weapon uncontrolledly did not come unravelled on Caucase".

 

Before the Georgian side accused the Russian soldiery in captures Georgian cities of Poti, Gory row of other settlements. Afterwards this information was refuted both by Russian soldiery and Georgian MVD. In particular, MVD of Georgia explained that Russian armor in Gory helps in a transfer soldiery to S-Ossetia, a city is not occuped.

 

Russian soldiery on August, 13 blew up three ships of service of coastguard of boundary department of Georgia in port of city Poti, reported on a site Korrespondent.net. On information of the Ukrainian internet publishing, it happened on eyes for local journalists straight at moorage.

[+Typhoid 231]

Russian version (machine translation, may have errors)

 

The Russian peacemakers again refuted reports about the capture of Poti

 

The representative of staff of the Russian peacemakers in the area of conflict refuted reports that the Russian troops allegedly occupied the Georgian city Poti.

 

(edit)

 

Russian soldiery on August, 13 blew up three ships of service of coastguard of boundary department of Georgia in port of city Poti, reported on a site Korrespondent.net. On information of the Ukrainian internet publishing, it happened on eyes for local journalists straight at moorage.

 

ok. How if the Russian troops did not capture/invade/occupy Poti, how did they blow up three coastguard ships in Poti?

[herman01 0]

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Russian foriegn minister Lavrov told reporters.

 

Context is important.

[+lindr2 19]

 

After negotiations and by administration of Poti, the group of the engineers arrived on trucks from Base next to Sinaki, blew up ships and other objects of coastguard and returned back, the Georgian police provided safety of civilians.

[+Typhoid 231]

After negotiations and by administration of Poti, the group of the engineers arrived on trucks from Base next to Sinaki, blew up ships and other objects of coastguard and returned back, the Georgian police provided safety of civilians.

 

 

right.........................

 

and how many Spetznaz were involved in the "negotiations"?

 

and how many tanks accompanied the trucks from Senaki?

 

and why were all those Russian "engineers" in Senaki in the first place if "Peacemakers assert that no cities and settlements they occupied." ?

Edited August 14, 2008 by Typhoid

[+lindr2 19]

right.........................

 

and how many Spetznaz were involved in the "negotiations"?

 

No Spetznaz!

One simple question was set: we must destroy objects, presenting a danger for us. Choose : engineers or air strike ?

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

No Spetznaz!

One simple question was set: we must destroy objects, presenting a danger for us. Choose : engineers or air strike ?

 

I really don't want to get into this. But I fail to see how 3 unmanned Coast Guard vessels moored in a port you say you are not in present a 'danger' for your 'peacemakers.'

 

(I do not use "your" or "you" actually referring to anyone posting.)

Edited August 14, 2008 by Jeremiah Weed

[+Julhelm 266]

The Times:

 

Vladimir Putin's Mastery Checkmates the West

 

Russia has been biding its time, but its victory in Georgia has been brutal - and brilliant

 

The Times

By Michael Binyon

August 14, 2008

 

The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype. What the world has seen last week is a brilliant and brutal display of Russia's national game, chess. And Moscow has just declared checkmate.

 

Chess is a slow game. One has to be ready to ignore provocations, lose a few pawns and turn the hubris of others into their own entrapment. For years there has been rising resentment within Russia. Some of this is inevitable: the loss of empire, a burning sense of grievance and the fear that in the 1990s, amid domestic chaos and economic collapse, Russia's views no longer mattered.

 

A generalised resentment, similar to the sour undercurrents of Weimar Germany, began to focus on specific issues: the nonchalance of the Clinton Administration about Russian sensitivities, especially over the Balkans and in opening Nato's door to former Warsaw Pact members; the neo-conservative agenda of the early Bush years that saw no role for Russia in its global agenda; and Washington's ingratitude after 9/11 for vital Kremlin support over terrorism, Afghanistan and intelligence on extremism.

 

More infuriating was Western encouragement of “freedom” in the former Soviet satellite states that gave carte blanche to forces long hostile to Russia. In the Baltic states, Soviet occupation could be portrayed as worse than the Nazis. EU commissioners from new member states could target Russian policies. Populists in Eastern Europe could ride to power on anti-Russian rhetoric emboldened by Western applause for their fluency in English.

 

Nowhere was such taunting more wounding than in Ukraine and Georgia, two countries long part of the Russian Empire, whose history, religion and culture were so intertwined with Russia's. Moscow tried, disastrously, to check Western, and particularly American, influence in Ukraine. The clumsy meddling led to the Orange Revolution.

 

Georgia was a different matter. Relations were always mercurial, but Eduard Shevardnadze, the wily former Soviet Foreign Minister, knew how to keep atavistic animosities in check. Not so his brash successor, Mikheil Saakashvili. From then on, hubris was Tbilisi's undoing.

 

It was not simply the dismissive rhetoric, the open door to US advisers or the economic illiteracy in forgetting dependence on Russian energy and remittance from across the border; it was the determined attempt to make Georgia a US regional ally and outpost of US influence.

 

Big powers do not like other big powers poaching. This may not be moral or fair but it is reality, and one that underpins the Security Council veto. The Monroe Doctrine - “hands off the Americas” - has been policy in Washington for 200 years. The US is ready to risk war to keep out not only other powers but hostile ideologies - in Cuba and Nicaragua.

 

Vladimir Putin lost several pawns on the chessboard - Kosovo, Iraq, Nato membership for the Baltic states, US renunciation of the ABM treaty, US missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. But he waited.

 

The trap was set in Georgia. When President Saakashvili blundered into South Ossetia, sending in an army to shell, kill and maim on a vicious scale (against US advice and his promised word), Russia was waiting.

 

It was not only Mr Saakashvili who thought that he had the distraction of the Olympics to cover him; the Kremlin also knew that Mr Bush was watching basketball, and, in the longer term, that the US army was fully engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan. From the day that the Russian tank brigade raced through the tunnel into South Ossetia, Russia has not made one wrong move. Mr Bush's remarks yesterday notwithstanding, in five days it turned an overreaching blunder by a Western-backed opponent into a devastating exposure of Western impotence, dithering and double standards on respecting national sovereignty (viz Iraq).

 

The attack was short, sharp and deadly - enough to send the Georgians fleeing in humiliating panic, their rout captured by global television. The destruction was enough to hurt, but not so much that the world would be roused in fury. The timing of the ceasefire was precise: just hours before President Sarkozy could voice Western anger. Moscow made clear that it retained the initiative. And despite sporadic breaches - on both sides - Russia has blunted Georgian charges that this is a war of annihilation.

 

Moscow can also counter Georgian PR, the last weapon left to Tbilisi. Human rights? Look at what Georgia has done in South Ossetia (and also in Abkhazia). National sovereignty? Look at the detachment of Kosovo from Serbia. False pretexts? Look at Ronald Reagan's invasion of Grenada to “rescue” US medical students. Western outrage? Look at the confused cacophony.

 

There are lessons everywhere. To the former Soviet republics - remember your geography. To NATO - do you still want to incorporate Caucasian vendettas into your alliance? To Tbilisi - do you want to keep a President who brought this on you? To Washington - does Russia's voice still count for nothing? Like it or not, it counts for a lot.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Julhelm

[+Typhoid 231]

No Spetznaz!

One simple question was set: we must destroy objects, presenting a danger for us. Choose : engineers or air strike ?

 

oh, I understand the military issue in destroying potential threats to your operations.

 

I do not, however, fall for the fiction that such activities carried out within the territorial borders of an independent, sovereign country was conducted peacefully and did/does not constitute an invasion/occupation. Senaki is, at least according to my charts, well within Georgian territory and those ships (which were manned) in the port of Poti certainly posed no threat to Russian ground and air forces operating within Georgian territory and were absolutely no threat to the 14 ship flotilla of combattants that you are currently using to blockade the Georgian coast line.

 

In other words, don't pretend that you are fooling anyone with that propaganda line my Russian Friend and Potential-Future-Opponent (again).

Edited August 14, 2008 by Typhoid

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

and those ships (which were manned)

 

My apologies. I did not fully look into this. I certainly hope since this was a "negotiated" destruction, the crew were allowed to disembark.

[+lindr2 19]

oh, I understand the military issue in destroying potential threats to your operations.

 

I do not, however, fall for the fiction that such activities carried out within the territorial borders of an independent, sovereign country was conducted peacefully and did/does not constitute an invasion/occupation. Senaki is, at least according to my charts, well within Georgian territory and those ships (which were manned) in the port of Poti certainly posed no threat to Russian ground and air forces operating within Georgian territory and were absolutely no threat to the 14 ship flotilla of combattants that you are currently using to blockade the Georgian coast line.

 

In other words, don't pretend that you are fooling anyone with that propaganda line my Russian Friend and Potential-Future-Opponent (again).

 

No propaganda, just facts "...military issue in destroying potential threats to your operations"

 

One of the Russian generals said : " Georgia attacked peacemakers. It is an aggressor, in accordance with the mandate of UN we conduct its disarmament, that it never was anymore able to begin new war. "

[kesegy 5]

 It is an aggressor, in accordance with the mandate of UN we conduct its disarmament, that it never was anymore able to begin new war. "

What number is that UN resolution on Georgian disarmament? Give us a link to it on the UN webpage.

Edited August 14, 2008 by kesegy

[Roopod 0]

I'm no spring chicken so when I read some of the propaganda masquerading as 'facts' I get kinda irritated. If you've read books such as George Orwell's 1984 you might see the parrallel here. The Russians are the aggressors here and they are the ones presently conducting an invasion of a sovereign nation with well defined territorial borders which aren't irrelevent to anyone except the international criminals conducting their own crimes against humanity. The ridiculous statement that they are conducting a disarmament operation of Georgia is as ludicrous as calling the Russian invasion forces 'peace-keepers'. Frankly, I haven't heard a thing from the UN and believe their effectiveness is about equal to the League of Nations in 1939. History will tell of how Russia got the ball rolling that led to World War Three. Masterful, truly masterful. Does anyone have any up to date info that isn't from a state run media outlet? Other then Michael Binyon who has sided with the russians?

Edited August 14, 2008 by Roopod

[MigBuster 2,879]

those ships (which were manned) in the port of Poti certainly posed no threat to Russian ground and air forces operating within Georgian territory and were absolutely no threat to the 14 ship flotilla of combattants that you are currently using to blockade the Georgian coast line.

 

 

Back for 1 post only :)

 

Typhoid we expect better from you sir - does anyone actually know what type of boats these were? A few months back when what looked like Iranian Dingies buzzing around US warships I too laughed and thought where was the threat there - but was told they had some pretty handy anti ship missiles and were very in fact a very big threat to the ships. Although no way of knowing its possible Georgia could possess the hardware.

[+Typhoid 231]

Back for 1 post only :)

 

Typhoid we expect better from you sir - does anyone actually know what type of boats these were? A few months back when what looked like Iranian Dingies buzzing around US warships I too laughed and thought where was the threat there - but was told they had some pretty handy anti ship missiles and were very in fact a very big threat to the ships. Although no way of knowing its possible Georgia could possess the hardware.

 

yes. I know precisely what kinds of ships were in the Georgian inventory and what they were armed with.

[+Typhoid 231]

My apologies. I did not fully look into this. I certainly hope since this was a "negotiated" destruction, the crew were allowed to disembark.

 

I believe so

Edited August 14, 2008 by Typhoid