Georgia moves against separatists

[+Typhoid 231]

No propaganda, just facts "...military issue in destroying potential threats to your operations"

 

One of the Russian generals said : " Georgia attacked peacemakers. It is an aggressor, in accordance with the mandate of UN we conduct its disarmament, that it never was anymore able to begin new war. "

 

propaganda. And an unbelievable fiction that unarmed engineers traveled by truck and negotiated the surrender of the port, evacuation of the facilities and ships, and then calmly destroyed them.

 

again, don't think you are fooling everyone. Some of us understand very clearly what is going on there.

[eraser_tr 29]

Potential foe? Typhoid I think the potetial went out the window almost a week ago.

 

There are no resolutions calling for georgia's complete disarmament, nor are they such a dangerous nation that needs to be permanently disarmed.

[+Typhoid 231]

Potential foe? Typhoid I think the potetial went out the window almost a week ago.

 

There are no resolutions calling for georgia's complete disarmament, nor are they such a dangerous nation that needs to be permanently disarmed.

 

huh?

 

I'm referring to my old adversaries in the former and future Soviet Empire.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Typhoid

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I'm referring to my old adversaries in the former and future Soviet Empire.

 

For some reason this post reminded me of my father's, a SAC Warrior and career B-52G/H Pilot's Hero:

 

 

God rest his soul...

[Roopod 0]

It is interesting to see stories of how masterful Putin has been at Checkmating the West but then I also remember the same being said about someone in 1938. It isn't about how it begins but how it will end. It ain't over yet.

Two US Air Force supply planes land in Tbilisi Thursday. Story -HERE-

Russians are working frantically to create two narrow security belts 300-500 meters deep along the South Ossetian and Abkhazian borders with Georgia. Story -HERE-

Edited August 14, 2008 by Roopod

[deep 5]

It's possible that Putin's sabre rattling may backfire, as Poland has now signed a defence agreement with the US. Perhaps others may follow now.

[eraser_tr 29]

Russia has certainly showed its hand. I wouldn't doubt a ton of treaties with the US, EU and NATO to happen pretty quickly.....If we didn't throw out all our goodwill with Iraq, we could've had the ink down even sooner. If we could get china on our side(what with all the economics now) They'd be completely encircled.

 

The only problem are those god damned ICBMs. Even though their maintenance has been lacking, there's no telling how many missile defenses can stop, even if half of the ones that do launch can't get to their targets.

 

I saw this book claiming hidden prophecies by nostradamus that sounded alot like this, and they specifically mention the nuclear destruction of rome.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

HERE'S something interesting that happened overnight. Hope she has a speedy recovery. To continue reporting was pretty courageous!

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

HERE'S something interesting that happened overnight. Hope she was a speedy recovery. To continue reporting was pretty courageous!

 

There seems to be a lot of reporters getting shot in this conflict. I wonder if anyone is going to try to indite the shooters for murder like I think the Spanish? tried to do to the American M1 Tank Commander that engaged hostile forces in a hotel and also killed some reporters.

[Roopod 0]

Interesting stuff on youtube:

Another one:

From an unusual source AlJazeeraEnglish.

 

Georgian Legend: -HERE-

Georgian Army: -VideoHERE-

Edited August 15, 2008 by Roopod

[gbnavy61 1]

I see that little has changed in the last few days. Russia is still carving up and enveloping what's left of Georgia.

[+NeverEnough 78]

How the West

Fueled Putin's

Sense of Impunity

By GARRY KASPAROV

August 15, 2008; Page A13

 

Russia's invasion of Georgia reminded me of a conversation I had three years ago in Moscow with a high-ranking European Union official. Russia was much freer then, but President Vladimir Putin's onslaught against democratic rights was already underway.

 

"What would it take," I asked, "for Europe to stop treating Putin like a democrat? If all opposition parties are banned? Or what if they started shooting people in the street?" The official shrugged and replied that even in such cases, there would be little the EU could do. He added: "Staying engaged will always be the best hope for the people of both Europe and Russia."

 

The citizens of Georgia would likely disagree. Russia's invasion was the direct result of nearly a decade of Western helplessness and delusion. Inexperienced and cautious in the international arena at the start of his reign in 2000, Mr. Putin soon learned he could get away with anything without repercussions from the EU or America.

 

Russia reverted to a KGB dictatorship while Mr. Putin was treated as an equal at G-8 summits. Italy's Silvio Berlusconi and Germany's Gerhardt Schroeder became Kremlin business partners. Mr. Putin discovered democratic credentials could be bought and sold just like everything else. The final confirmation was the acceptance of Dmitry Medvedev in the G-8, and on the world stage. The leaders of the Free World welcomed Mr. Putin's puppet, who had been anointed in blatantly faked elections.

 

On Tuesday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy sprinted to Moscow to broker a ceasefire agreement. He was allowed to go through the motions, perhaps as a reward for his congratulatory phone call to Mr. Putin after our December parliamentary "elections." But just a few months ago Mr. Sarkozy was in Moscow as a supplicant, lobbying for Renault. How much credibility does he really have in Mr. Putin's eyes?

 

In reality, Mr. Sarkozy is attempting to remedy a crisis he helped bring about. Last April, France opposed the American push to fast-track Georgia's North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership. This was one of many missed opportunities that collectively built up Mr. Putin's sense of impunity. In this way the G-7 nations aided and abetted the Kremlin's ambitions.

 

Georgia blundered into a trap, although its imprudent aggression in South Ossetia was overshadowed by Mr. Putin's desire to play the strongman. Russia seized the chance to go on the offensive in Georgian territory while playing the victim/hero. Mr. Putin has long been eager to punish Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili for his lack of respect both for Georgia's old master Russia, and for Mr. Putin personally. (Popular rumor has it that the Georgian president once mocked his peer as "Lilli-Putin.")

 

Although Mr. Saakashvili could hardly be called a model democrat, his embrace of Europe and the West is considered a very bad example by the Kremlin. The administrations of the Georgian breakaway areas of Abkhazia and South Ossetia are stocked, top to bottom, with bureaucrats from the Russian security services.

 

Throughout the conflict, the Kremlin-choreographed message in the Russian media has been one of hysteria. The news presents Russia as surrounded by enemies on all sides, near and far, and the military intervention in Georgia as essential to protect the lives and interests of Russians. It is also often spoken of as just the first step, with enclaves in Ukraine next on the menu. Attack dogs like Russian nationalist politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky are used to test and whip up public opinion. Kremlin-sponsored ultranationalist ideologue Alexander Dugin went on the radio to say Russian forces "should not stop until they are stopped." The damage done by such rhetoric is very slow to heal.

 

The conflict also threatens to poison Russia's relationship with Europe and America for years to come. Can such a belligerent state be trusted as the guarantor of Europe's energy supply? Republican presidential candidate John McCain has been derided for his strong stance against Mr. Putin, including a proposal to kick Russia out of the G-8. Will his critics now admit that the man they called an antiquated cold warrior was right all along?

 

The conventional wisdom of Russia's "invulnerability" serves as an excuse for inaction. President Bush's belatedly toughened language is welcome, but actual sanctions must now be considered. The Kremlin's ruling clique has vital interests -- i.e. assets -- abroad and those interests are vulnerable.

 

The blood of those killed in this conflict is on the hands of radical nationalists, thoughtless politicians, opportunistic oligarchs and the leaders of the Free World who value gas and oil more than principles. More lives will be lost unless strong moral lines are drawn to reinforce the shattered lines of the map.

 

Mr. Kasparov, leader of The Other Russia coalition, is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Russia has certainly showed its hand. I wouldn't doubt a ton of treaties with the US, EU and NATO to happen pretty quickly.....If we didn't throw out all our goodwill with Iraq, we could've had the ink down even sooner. If we could get china on our side(w

China and Russia are no longer in the very bad relationship they were until Gorbi's visit in 1989. Some analysts say they are lurking into the empty spaces of Siberia, and attempting some migrating strategy in Vladivostok (more and more Han). Well, siberian empty spaces... Devoid of people. Not of precious minerals or oil. But I don't know how far it's serious.

My bet is China would play on both side.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

China and Russia are no longer in the very bad relationship they were until Gorbi's visit in 1989. Some analysts say they are lurking into the empty spaces of Siberia, and attempting some migrating strategy in Vladivostok (more and more Han). Well, siberian empty spaces... Devoid of people. Not of precious minerals or oil. But I don't know how far it's serious.

My bet is China would play on both side.

 

Yep,that is

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Pretty good propaganda free photos

[+whiteknight06604 934]

How the West

Fueled Putin's

Sense of Impunity

By GARRY KASPAROV

August 15, 2008; Page A13

 

Russia's invasion of Georgia reminded me of a conversation I had three years ago in Moscow with a high-ranking European Union official. Russia was much freer then, but President Vladimir Putin's onslaught against democratic rights was already underway.

 

"What would it take," I asked, "for Europe to stop treating Putin like a democrat? If all opposition parties are banned? Or what if they started shooting people in the street?" The official shrugged and replied that even in such cases, there would be little the EU could do. He added: "Staying engaged will always be the best hope for the people of both Europe and Russia."

 

The citizens of Georgia would likely disagree. Russia's invasion was the direct result of nearly a decade of Western helplessness and delusion. Inexperienced and cautious in the international arena at the start of his reign in 2000, Mr. Putin soon learned he could get away with anything without repercussions from the EU or America.

 

Russia reverted to a KGB dictatorship while Mr. Putin was treated as an equal at G-8 summits. Italy's Silvio Berlusconi and Germany's Gerhardt Schroeder became Kremlin business partners. Mr. Putin discovered democratic credentials could be bought and sold just like everything else. The final confirmation was the acceptance of Dmitry Medvedev in the G-8, and on the world stage. The leaders of the Free World welcomed Mr. Putin's puppet, who had been anointed in blatantly faked elections.

 

On Tuesday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy sprinted to Moscow to broker a ceasefire agreement. He was allowed to go through the motions, perhaps as a reward for his congratulatory phone call to Mr. Putin after our December parliamentary "elections." But just a few months ago Mr. Sarkozy was in Moscow as a supplicant, lobbying for Renault. How much credibility does he really have in Mr. Putin's eyes?

 

In reality, Mr. Sarkozy is attempting to remedy a crisis he helped bring about. Last April, France opposed the American push to fast-track Georgia's North Atlantic Treaty Organization membership. This was one of many missed opportunities that collectively built up Mr. Putin's sense of impunity. In this way the G-7 nations aided and abetted the Kremlin's ambitions.

 

Georgia blundered into a trap, although its imprudent aggression in South Ossetia was overshadowed by Mr. Putin's desire to play the strongman. Russia seized the chance to go on the offensive in Georgian territory while playing the victim/hero. Mr. Putin has long been eager to punish Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili for his lack of respect both for Georgia's old master Russia, and for Mr. Putin personally. (Popular rumor has it that the Georgian president once mocked his peer as "Lilli-Putin.")

 

Although Mr. Saakashvili could hardly be called a model democrat, his embrace of Europe and the West is considered a very bad example by the Kremlin. The administrations of the Georgian breakaway areas of Abkhazia and South Ossetia are stocked, top to bottom, with bureaucrats from the Russian security services.

 

Throughout the conflict, the Kremlin-choreographed message in the Russian media has been one of hysteria. The news presents Russia as surrounded by enemies on all sides, near and far, and the military intervention in Georgia as essential to protect the lives and interests of Russians. It is also often spoken of as just the first step, with enclaves in Ukraine next on the menu. Attack dogs like Russian nationalist politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky are used to test and whip up public opinion. Kremlin-sponsored ultranationalist ideologue Alexander Dugin went on the radio to say Russian forces "should not stop until they are stopped." The damage done by such rhetoric is very slow to heal.

 

The conflict also threatens to poison Russia's relationship with Europe and America for years to come. Can such a belligerent state be trusted as the guarantor of Europe's energy supply? Republican presidential candidate John McCain has been derided for his strong stance against Mr. Putin, including a proposal to kick Russia out of the G-8. Will his critics now admit that the man they called an antiquated cold warrior was right all along?

 

The conventional wisdom of Russia's "invulnerability" serves as an excuse for inaction. President Bush's belatedly toughened language is welcome, but actual sanctions must now be considered. The Kremlin's ruling clique has vital interests -- i.e. assets -- abroad and those interests are vulnerable.

 

The blood of those killed in this conflict is on the hands of radical nationalists, thoughtless politicians, opportunistic oligarchs and the leaders of the Free World who value gas and oil more than principles. More lives will be lost unless strong moral lines are drawn to reinforce the shattered lines of the map.

 

Mr. Kasparov, leader of The Other Russia coalition, is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal.

 

 

Now that is not only sobering but also frightening.It looks like another generation might have to learn the phrase duck and cover.

[Roopod 0]

Russians prepare two security strips in Georgia as Rice lands in Tbilisi. Story: -HERE-

The UN ducked and covered this time. Proving they are only Version 2 of the League of Nations. End of round one. Round two to begin shortly...

[+lindr2 19]

 

"Free" Press Foxnews http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

"Free" Press Foxnews http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

 

Yeah I really don't see, agenda or not, how this shows that a media organization is not "Free." It certainly isn't state controlled. If a private company chooses to "freely" decide how they are going to report a story, it certainly doesn't mean there is no freedom of the press.

 

Does Fox News have an Agenda? More than likely, but who knows if the guests on that show didn't have an agenda of their own and were dishonest with the fact checkers before they were put on the show, and they started saying things the media knows to be untrue and they didn't want to report a false story? Who knows?

 

One of the major problems with press is the sensationalism that has come with it of late. This does not show there no freedom of the press. In fact it actually shows how much freedom of the press there is in the US.

 

And I find it funny Russians are saying things like "see the American media is controlled by the government" When they are being told by their own State run media is telling the people things like the "Russian Peace Makers are working under a UN Mandate to disarm Georgia."

 

Also it appears the comments on that video disagreeing with anyone Russian are being deleted. Makes you go hmmmm.

[herman01 0]

From what I've seen watching the news in America is that Georgia is being portrayed as defenseless victim and Russia as the terrible aggressor. I think the money Georgia has pumped into American think tanks is paying off well. Nothing however is that black and white. People may put their own personal spin on issues for ideologically convenience but its seems that the first thing that happened was that Georgians came in with military troops into South Ossetia. Which was a giant blunder by the Georgian president trying to call the Russians bluff. The next thing I’m sure I will see on domestic news is some video or witnesses talking about Russian atrocities in Georgia which is something that is bound to happen when you send any young men with guns and tanks into any spot in the world.