Are Carrier Ops realistic in WOE

[+malibu43 142]

I'm looking for some input from some of you armed forces guys.

 

I've added a carrier station north of Belgium in WOE, but I was wondering if this would be realistic or not. With a WOE style of conflict, would the navy be involved given the location of the conflict, or would it be airforce only?

Edited August 26, 2008 by malibu43

[+Gocad 26]

I'm looking for some input from some of you armed forces guys.

 

I've added a carrier station north of Belgium in WOE, but I was wondering if this would be realistic or not. With a WOE style of conflict, would the navy be involved given the location of the conflict, or would it be airforce only?

 

IMHO I would say the Navy and their squadrons would rather be needed in the skies over the Atlantic Ocean than over Central Europe.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

On the other hand, Soviet VMF may wish to fly between the land masses, say, north of Britain, and not fly over Iceland or Greenland that may have NATO search radars, but between the land masses, like Kreigsmarine had to sail from Germany to get to the Atlantic. A carrier stationed there might be able to intercept VMF aircraft like HMS Hood intercepted the Bismarck (okay not the best analogy). The point is, it might be best to do the interception in somewhat confined waters than have to search the vast Atlantic for aircraft. Find them before they reach the Atlantic. Well that's an idea to work with anyways. And so you have your justification.

 

 

For my mythological Siberian Sky campaign, I wish to justify high altitude strategic air warfare into the 1960s, to justify using B-70 for example. I assume in a long shooting war, SAC and RAF will keep up with the ECM war, like the RAF did over nightime Germany without retreating with tail between leggs to low altitude. I will assume an early start for anti-radiation missiles. The first I know of was a subsonic job to be used by B-36 against Soviet search radars (cancelled in peacetime). So, I look for examples where strategic aircraft use ARMs against SAMs, and we have a good example with Avro Vulcans and Shrikes in the Falklands. So, the B-70 can survive.

[+Piecemeal 450]

If you're into a good paperback novel you should pick up a copy of Tom Clancy's 'Red Storm Rising' which goes on the theory of a Soviet invasion of central Europe in the 80s. It's more or less based on a 'what if' scenario. There are a lot of naval carrier ops in there as well as land combat. An excellent read as well.

This would be a good example to go by, as Tom Clancy said once himself that before and during the writing of his books he always gets tachnical, tactical and strategic advice from the military.

My advice is is you haven't read it yet; get it ASAP. Even if you're not much of a bookworm you won't be able to put it down

[MAKO69 186]

Yes, who else is gonna provide "CLOSE" airsupport for the Army, not the Airforce, .....lol I kid I kid. All branches of service would be used and needed in an all out war in Europe, in the "COLD WAR GONE HOT" scenerio. At the height of the Cold War there was a carrier no more than a 2 or 3 days away, and a lot of US Airforce and Allied Air Force units already stationed and all would be extremly valuable.

Edited August 26, 2008 by MAKO69

[+malibu43 142]

If you're into a good paperback novel you should pick up a copy of Tom Clancy's 'Red Storm Rising' which goes on the theory of a Soviet invasion of central Europe in the 80s. It's more or less based on a 'what if' scenario. There are a lot of naval carrier ops in there as well as land combat. An excellent read as well.

This would be a good example to go by, as Tom Clancy said once himself that before and during the writing of his books he always gets tachnical, tactical and strategic advice from the military.

My advice is is you haven't read it yet; get it ASAP. Even if you're not much of a bookworm you won't be able to put it down

 

I actually hadn't been reading much, until I had some time lately and decided to re-read Flight of the Intruder. That got me going again, and I picked up Fortunes of War, no knowing that I'd already read that one too, but it was a fun read anyway. Then, while on vacation, I found the only book in English in the resort's common area and it was Battle Born by Dale Brown. So I started it and, since it looked like it hadn't been touched in serveral years, I "accidentally" took it home with me. My dad read Red Storm Rising a while back and recommended it to me, but I never got around to it. I'll have to read that one next.

 

Yes, who else is gonna provide "CLOSE" airsupport for the Army, not the Airforce, .....lol I kid I kid. All branches of service would be used and needed in an all out war in Europe, in the "COLD WAR GONE HOT" scenerio. At the height of the Cold War there was a carrier no more than a 2 or 3 days away, and a lot of US Airforce and Allied Air Force units already stationed and all would be extremly valuable.

 

Cool. I'll leave my carriers in there then!

[+comrpnt 16]

If you're into a good paperback novel you should pick up a copy of Tom Clancy's 'Red Storm Rising' which goes on the theory of a Soviet invasion of central Europe in the 80s. It's more or less based on a 'what if' scenario. There are a lot of naval carrier ops in there as well as land combat. An excellent read as well.

This would be a good example to go by, as Tom Clancy said once himself that before and during the writing of his books he always gets tachnical, tactical and strategic advice from the military.

My advice is is you haven't read it yet; get it ASAP. Even if you're not much of a bookworm you won't be able to put it down

 

For RSR and WOE, if you can get all of the pre-reqs, then you might want to give this scenario a try: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6299

 

(Screenies here: http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5209)

 

Regards, comrpnt.

[+Typhoid 231]

I'm looking for some input from some of you armed forces guys.

 

I've added a carrier station north of Belgium in WOE, but I was wondering if this would be realistic or not. With a WOE style of conflict, would the navy be involved given the location of the conflict, or would it be airforce only?

 

I flew in a NATO exercise (way back when) while on the Indy in almost exactly that location doing exactly that kind of scenario.

 

So yes. I've modded my campaigns in that manner and flown a few as well as some Baltic ops. Fastcargo also posted some time back a modded campaign that did the same thing.

[Southernap 1]

It all depends on the year in question and what nation. This is what I know about US Navy Tactics during the Cold War.

 

In the late 1940's and up till about 1954 one of the missions that the US Navy carrier battle groups that were under 2nd Fleet control practiced was steaming to with in range of the Dutch and Norwegian coast and then launch either an P2V Neptune, AJ Savage, A3D Skywarrior to both theater and strategic targets along the Baltic Coast. While a CVBG did that a similar US CVBG would steam to with in range of the Kola Peninsula and deliver nuclear weapons to the HQ of the Red Banner Fleet.

As strategic thoughts progressed, the Navy's primary mission during a NATO/WARSAW PACT conflict would of shift from the land combat in Central Europe to engaging the Red Banner Fleet in either the Norwegian Sea or North Atlantic and then again steaming to with in range of the Kola Peninsula to attack Soviet Naval Aviation bomber bases there, submarine pens, and various other targets.

When the 60's gave way to the 70's detente there was more and more talk of NATO's Carriers being used to seize the initiative in the suspected battle for Norway. They would also attempt to steam the tide of Soviet Submarines leaving their pens for action in the North Atlantic.

Finally in the early 80's after the Navy wrote a new strategic paper titled "The Maritime Defense" in 1986 in there they talk about the use of Carrier Air Power to help during the defense of Iceland, North Atlantic Convoys, defense of Iceland, and training to operate ashore or in protected Fjords in the Norwegian Sea. The biggest thing is the use of USMC in turning the Baltic operations against the WARSAW PACT. Whether that was from an opposed landing on the Danish or Northern German coast with Marine Air Group flying support of of Southern Norwegian Air bases or using USMC units to conduct penatration into Yugoslavia and strike at Czechslovkia and again a MAG flying out of either Northern Italian or Northern Greek bases.

[Fubar512 1,350]

I sense an early-mid 1980s USMC Harrier WoE campaign in the works....

[+Typhoid 231]

It all depends on the year in question and what nation. This is what I know about US Navy Tactics during the Cold War.

 

In the late 1940's and up till about 1954 one of the missions that the US Navy carrier battle groups that were under 2nd Fleet control practiced was steaming to with in range of the Dutch and Norwegian coast and then launch either an P2V Neptune, AJ Savage, A3D Skywarrior to both theater and strategic targets along the Baltic Coast. While a CVBG did that a similar US CVBG would steam to with in range of the Kola Peninsula and deliver nuclear weapons to the HQ of the Red Banner Fleet.

As strategic thoughts progressed, the Navy's primary mission during a NATO/WARSAW PACT conflict would of shift from the land combat in Central Europe to engaging the Red Banner Fleet in either the Norwegian Sea or North Atlantic and then again steaming to with in range of the Kola Peninsula to attack Soviet Naval Aviation bomber bases there, submarine pens, and various other targets.

When the 60's gave way to the 70's detente there was more and more talk of NATO's Carriers being used to seize the initiative in the suspected battle for Norway. They would also attempt to steam the tide of Soviet Submarines leaving their pens for action in the North Atlantic.

Finally in the early 80's after the Navy wrote a new strategic paper titled "The Maritime Defense" in 1986 in there they talk about the use of Carrier Air Power to help during the defense of Iceland, North Atlantic Convoys, defense of Iceland, and training to operate ashore or in protected Fjords in the Norwegian Sea. The biggest thing is the use of USMC in turning the Baltic operations against the WARSAW PACT. Whether that was from an opposed landing on the Danish or Northern German coast with Marine Air Group flying support of of Southern Norwegian Air bases or using USMC units to conduct penatration into Yugoslavia and strike at Czechslovkia and again a MAG flying out of either Northern Italian or Northern Greek bases.

 

good summary. I practiced all of those pieces in various exercises.

[ezlead 42]

I would almost guarantee that the Navy would have at least 1 or 2 Carrier Battle Groups involved in a conflict such as WOE. No matter what year is involved.

The Marines would have forces afloat(Battalion or Regimental Landing Teams). These forces would be onboard Amphibious Warfare ships(APH's,LPH's,LPD's,etc.)

In my WOE campaigns I have added 2 Carrier Battle Groups in the North Sea and An Amphibious Warfare Group in the Baltic.

As in Vietnam,the Navy would be mostly carrier based,the Marines would be both land and carrier based.

The government would be hard pressed to keep the Navy and Marines out of a good shooting war.