Modern UK terrain?

[mppd]

Understand about the project becoming colossal in scope - just thinking out loud. As I said in the first post, I'm just looking to have a chance to fly around the UK Phantom bases. WOE should have the German bases to bum around - I really have not spent enough time with it. I downloaded the EAW Europe conversion terrain and will give it a shot in a few days. Thanks again for the link, and the chance to think out loud.

 

And yes, Boscomb Down was indeed a testing base for RAF Phantoms. Don't tell me you flew Hurricanes and Spits in CFS and never longed to fly back to scenery for Brooklands and Eastleigh/Martlesham Heath?

 

Mike

[+Baltika]

I am more than happy to feed the DEM data into TE and crank out a basic terrain covering the discussed region.

 

For a number of reasons I think my emphasis would have to be on the North Sea scenario, not least because it covers an area I have looked at already in my early TE experiments after the publication of Gepard's guide, it marries up with my own interests (thinking about that WW2 invasion of Norway 1940 campaign :yes: ), and probably most importantly, covering a huge area in the North/South axis would emphasise the terrain distance distortion effect I referred to above. For the latter reason in particular, I think it's best to cover the Spain/Portugal/France scenario on a separate map. I will leave it to someone else to take up that particular challenge.

 

So, work will start on a "North Sea" terrain, covering Britain (mainly Scotland, and East coast) extending across to Norway. lazboy makes a good point, which is to say contributions by way of information about relevant bases and their locations would be most welcome. That would be a good way to make a division of labour which would speed things up enormously. So, if you have knowledge about bases, etc you want to see included, post it here. That would free up time I would otherwise have to spend on research to concentrate on putting things in the terrain.

 

Now, my first specific request is, how far east does this map have to go to give us appropriate bases for all these long-range Russian bombers? Where were they actually based?

 

2nd question:

The EAW converted map (1960s Europe and WW2 Europe versions) by FNG2K, Edward, Charles, MajorLee et al is decidedly rectangular in shape, covering far more ground in the x-axis than the y-axis (or East-West vs North-South). I think this is particularly suitable for what's being proposed here, and would help reduce the distance distortion effect as you progress further North.

 

But, TE produces square maps. So, to make the map bigger, you cover a larger area in both axes, and you re-introduce that distortion effect.

 

Anyone know how to make a rectangular map?

 

Cheers all,

 

Baltika

[+SkippyBing]

Most of the important bases are Eastern, Northern England & Scotland anyway.

 

Yes but Yeovilton is in the South West, which is the important base...

[+Baltika]

WIP North Sea terrain, basic build:-

 

 

Finally managed to sort out my autotiling woes with, well, WoE - of course, it was my own fault, I had missed out a single coastal .tga tile for conversion to .bmp format for TE to read. Duh

 

Currently having some issues getting the fjords to tile properly. I am having to hand-edit the height field .bmp to get something TE will read as a continual waterway. Then, there are no sea to snow transitions, so the mountains end up crossing the fjords anyway when I hit "transition texture." But I will work something out.

 

The area covered by the map is a compromise. Even at these latitudes, the DEM data is compressed in the North-South axis. I have had to compensate by cutting out a piece of Norway and manually "stretching" the .bmp until it looks more like it really should. Even so, it's not perfect. For that reason I had to abandon an effort to make a proper GIUK gap map, as Iceland looked totally squashed. For Iceland 2015 I had to stretch the map to get a proper projection, and TE will give a fair approximation of the UK as it is further south. When you try to stretch only certain sections of the map, it all gets too complicated, for variable results. Also, that map had Iceland top left, and the coast of Africa along the bottom, and everything in between. Way too big to be practical. So this will have to do.

 

Once I get the basic .HFD sorted, I will add a couple more airbases, target areas and carrier stations for each side and post a beta for fun/testing purposes.

 

Time to look out that OOB for Hitler's Invasion of Norway :yes:

 

Cheers all,

 

Baltika

[+Hinchinbrooke]

Yes but Yeovilton is in the South West, which is the important base...

 

Plus they serve Badger's Tanglefoot in that neck of the woods. The place to be.

[+Jimbib]

Plus they serve Badger's Tanglefoot in that neck of the woods. The place to be.

 

Can't beat a bit of Fursty Ferret either

 

Edit: Great work Baltika!

Edited September 3, 2008 by JimmyBib

[+allenjb42]

Great stuff Steve.

 

For WW3 we're going to have to assume Soviet bases in Northern Norway or E Germany on the Baltic coast for single missions I guess. Although for campaigns would you be able to use your 'off-map' airbases like in the PTO campaign?

[lazboy]

lazboy makes a good point, which is to say contributions by way of information about relevant bases and their locations would be most welcome. That would be a good way to make a division of labour which would speed things up enormously. So, if you have knowledge about bases, etc you want to see included, post it here. That would free up time I would otherwise have to spend on research to concentrate on putting things in the terrain.

 

Cheers all,

 

Baltika

 

One of the best sources I have found regarding the location and details of current and past RAF bases is Wikipedia which not only provides details of the operational history of each airbase, but the units located there, their role and even provides the bases geographical coordinates which should make it easier to locate them accurately on the new map. I have provided below some links to the relervant pages:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_stations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Coningsby

 

Hopefully this information will be of some assistance.

 

Lazboy

[mppd]

The map looks great - just super! Can't wait to see it. Thanks again,

Mike

[lazboy]

The map looks great - just super! Can't wait to see it. Thanks again,

Mike

 

What I particularly like is that has it appears that he has managed to incorporate some coastal areas of Northern Europe that includes Belguim, Holland and Denmark which should allow for some of these countries principal airbases to be included on the map, there would also appear room to include one of Swedens southern airbases Satenas at which Grippens are based.

 

One of two airbases in each of the european countries at the base of the map would allow even more options for intercepts over the North Sea.

 

Lazboy

[Kirsten]

One of the best sources I have found regarding the location and details of current and past RAF bases is Wikipedia which not only provides details of the operational history of each airbase, but the units located there, their role and even provides the bases geographical coordinates which should make it easier to locate them accurately on the new map. I have provided below some links to the relervant pages:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_stations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Coningsby

 

Hopefully this information will be of some assistance.

 

Lazboy

 

This would be wonderful !!! Map looks great and I'm very much looking forward to flying in Scotland.

If included, bases in Holland are also to be found At Wikipedia (category "Airports in Holland) and at Routenet Satelite Pics.

(at Google Earth the bases have been made "invisible" for reasons of security, big deal !!!!!)

 

Aju,

 

Derk :yes:

[+Baltika]

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement, everyone.

 

Was thinking about likely places for Soviet airbases and had a long, hard look at various detailed atlas projections of Northern Europe. I also went back to GIMP and started stretching the height field .bmp something terrible. We now have a new build of the basic terrain, but it's going to have to be called North-Norwegian-Baltic Sea terrain

 

Finally realised my handle here may finally have some relevance to my modding, as opposed to my taste in beer

 

Anyway, here's where it's at:-

 

 

I am still having some tiling issues around the coasts, particularly for cities. I will also have to tweak the height-field .bmp to get the fjords to be, fjords. That will take a bit of time. Also, as we cover a much larger geographical area, Scandinavia in general looks a bit, well, green. But I am not about to start another tiling project or this will never see the light of day. Fear not, England is next on the list for target treatment, but I am nearing the end of my current window of opportunity, probably til after the weekend. So I thought I would post this update to whet everyone's appetite :yes:

 

There are currently two working airbases, for testing purposes. Airfield placement is going to be a big job.

 

The projection of the UK may appear a little more stretched than you are used to. This is as a result of getting Scandinavia to work. Relative distances are still reasonably close, in that the distances from the top to bottom of the British Isles, and from Edinburgh to Saint Petersburg, seem fairly close to the mark in relative terms. I believe the expression is, "Close enough for government work."

 

Looking back at the original map I posted here, the UK looks rather squashed to me. I am starting to understand the problems of map-makers trying to express a 3-d surface on a 2d image. Essentially we are looking at a compromise, but I think this will open up a much greater range of scenario options. Also, I am starting to realise that the shape of landmasses as they appear on a map has a lot to do with the particular projection being used.

 

Cheers for now,

 

Baltika

Edited September 3, 2008 by Baltika

[column5]

What we need is more of this.

[lazboy]

This would be wonderful !!! Map looks great and I'm very much looking forward to flying in Scotland.

 

Derk :yes:

 

I reckon like us Brits there are a fair few members in Belguim, Holland and Denmark who would appreciate being able to fly from their own airfields and i fancy some dissimilar training flying F-16 from airbases in Norway and Holland as well as elsewhere.

 

Kirsten I have the principal operational airbases in Holland being

Leeuwarden Air Base at 53°13′43″N 05°45′38″E

 

Volkel Air Base at 51°39′26″N 05°41′27″E

 

are there any others that could warrant appearing on the map?

 

Lazboy

 

Edited September 3, 2008 by lazboy

[+Soulfreak]

:-

 

 

 

Holy cow, that would be a very nice terrain!!!

[+allenjb42]

That looks great!

 

And I can re-ennact some North Cape style F-19 missions from my long lost youth too.

[+SkippyBing]

Looking good, should be some room to fit a carrier battle group up to the North as well, covering the GIUK gap.

[+Jug]

This forum is just too much - mention a wild idea and it takes on a life of its own! You guys (and gals) are the best. Time to dig up some USAFE units and bases from the 70s.

 

Mike D.

You took the words right out of my mouth. What a place. Keep me hanging around for a long time..................Not sure if that is good or bad, but it's good for me!

[lazboy]

Looking good, should be some room to fit a carrier battle group up to the North as well, covering the GIUK gap.

 

Skippy

 

Now that the area covered by the map has been expanded it looks as though it should be possible after all to include Yeovilton which should make you happy.

 

Lazboy

[Kirsten]

I reckon like us Brits there are a fair few members in Belguim, Holland and Denmark who would appreciate being able to fly from their own airfields and i fancy some dissimilar training flying F-16 from airbases in Norway and Holland as well as elsewhere.

 

Kirsten I have the principal operational airbases in Holland being

Leeuwarden Air Base at 53°13′43″N 05°45′38″E

 

Volkel Air Base at 51°39′26″N 05°41′27″E

 

are there any others that could warrant appearing on the map?

 

Lazboy

 

 

Lazboy, basically right positions. If there is room, Soesterberg (52'08" N, 05'16"E) , Twenthe (52'16"N , 6'53"E),

Gilze Rijen (51'34"N , 4'56"E) and maybe Eindhoven (51'27"N, 5'22"E) were all fighter / strike fighter bases until quite recently. The rest, Woensdrecht, Ypenburg, Valkenburg (Navy) and de Peel only had combat aircraft for shorter periods or

during deployments, though Woensdrecht and De Peel do have shelters. Except for the Peel and Ypenburg, all bases were built during WW II with 2 runways at angles or parallel (Volkel) and they were quite big (though not as HUGE as Karup in Denmark or Ramstein, have a look at them in Google Earth...)

The WOE airfields by Gepard are better suited than the big US style standard airfields so if you could use them it would really add quality !!

If you have any more questions I'll be glad to help you,

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[+SkippyBing]

Now that the area covered by the map has been expanded it looks as though it should be possible after all to include Yeovilton which should make you happy.

 

Oh indeed!! You could even include Culdrose, although why you'd bother is beyond me

[DWCAce]

I was just reading through this topic, looks like a good idea. I'd love to go bombing through the Mach Loop, or take off from England and wage war on the commies! :)

[+Jimbib]

Oh indeed!! You could even include Culdrose, although why you'd bother is beyond me

 

Because everyone loves the Ace of Clubs

 

Saw one recently in fact, it looks a bit quirky but that scheme looks cool.

[+Hinchinbrooke]

Can't beat a bit of Fursty Ferret either

 

I think I might have had that....... although knowing me, and consumption of ales, it's hard to remember.

[BattlerBritain]

This terrain'll be great when it's done.

 

Would be really good to have 208 Buccs out of Lossie hunting for Ivan boats, warp 8 and riding the waves.

 

Aaaah, that'd be grand