Air Force Officer Careers

[commander 0]

senior , far from. im a damn freshie. but i do know what i want to do and where i want to learn. i was wondering if it was possible to do Aero engineering and flight as a minor while taking ROTC. if not ill figure something out, like try and make a "test pilot" degree with aerospace studies and the like. Though any suggestions, i am going for anything where i can fly and go with ROTC (scholarship hopefully), i like designing aircraft as well, but my parents want me to have something to fall back on so Aeronautical science is out for the moment.

Edited October 23, 2008 by commander

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

"They are not perfect, but if someone gave me a ride in a time machine, there are a couple of stops I would make and one of those would have been to the Navy recruiter's office..."

 

RULE #1; NEVER, EVER, BELIEVE A WORD THAT EXITS A RECRUITERS MOUTH!,, EVER!

[+suhsjake 11]

I'll ask around and see if there's any AE's with a pilot minor (there's not many). Just a word, even though you trained to be a pilot at Embry-Riddle doesn't mean you are going to be a pilot in the Army or Air Force. (Word of advise, start working your ass off in PT with lots of push ups, sit ups and running, keep your grades above a 3.0 (especially math and science), and start planning your finances. It's about $15,000 a semester at ERAU PR and it kills a lot off people in the first year). I'm looking at the Undergraduate Catalog (the big book with all the majors, minors, and courses), and there is a lot of stuff to learn in AE. Thermodynamics, aerodynamics, perpulson, and boat loads of other stuff, but if you like that stuff go for it.

 

Right now, I'm in Aerospace Studies (referred to as ASP) with minors in Helicopter Flight, Helicopter Safety and Operation, Applied Meteorology, and Defense Studies (ROTC). I like the ASP, becuase it gives me the freedom to learn what I want to learn. BTW, they are going to change the ASP name to Intermural Studies or something like that, so it doesn't get confused with Aeronautical Science.

 

Edit:

 

There is also a Minor in Flight Test and Simulation

Edited October 23, 2008 by suhsjake

[JediMaster 451]

"They are not perfect, but if someone gave me a ride in a time machine, there are a couple of stops I would make and one of those would have been to the Navy recruiter's office..."

 

RULE #1; NEVER, EVER, BELIEVE A WORD THAT EXITS A RECRUITERS MOUTH!,, EVER!

 

Reminds me of that scene in Pvt Benjamin when she first gets to boot camp.

"I'm sorry, I seem to be in the wrong Army. Where's the one with the nice rooms?"

[+SkippyBing 8]

my only problem with navy is the fact that you get stuck out at sea for 6 months, trapped in a giant ship in small quarters with the same 6000 people

 

Not totally sure what the routines are like in the USN vs the RN, but as a small ship aviator you go away for six months on a small ship with about 200 other people and every few weeks go on a run ashore with them in some corner of the world you wouldn't otherwise have seen. Plus we aren't stuck on the ship so we can go and get McDonalds and some of the other trappings of 'civilisation' to show the rest of the Ship's Company...

 

Oh yeah and never trust anyone in the recruiting office, if they need to make up the numbers in the stoker's branch they'll lie stretch the truth through their teeth to get you to sign up to it!

Edited October 23, 2008 by SkippyBing

[sparkomatic 7]

"They are not perfect, but if someone gave me a ride in a time machine, there are a couple of stops I would make and one of those would have been to the Navy recruiter's office..."

 

RULE #1; NEVER, EVER, BELIEVE A WORD THAT EXITS A RECRUITERS MOUTH!,, EVER!

 

 

 

Hmm...I just want to clarify that the mind would have already been set so whatever the recruiter said would have been moot...

 

Also reference the "same 6000 people comment"...did you read my posts at all? What do you think it is like sitting in the damn desert? At least the boat freakin moves and the breeze is better. Try sitting in a sandbox for months on end while some damn E-8 with a fat gut and a sorry home life tries to tell you that you are supposed to wear a specific sock with your PT gear when, in all reality, there is no such rule and by the way, your "offensive socks" where in fact ankle high, white, new, and sold at military clothing sales...those POG's are ruining the USAF about as fast as Moseley did...

 

And if you want to be an aviator/pilot...RIGHT NOW get in the habit of reading...more than you could ever imagine...and people like FastCargo like to ask you what the cube root of the nose tire pressure is on a hot day after grilling you for 40 minutes on bold face (dont know what a bold face is? you are already late).

 

If you prospective air warriors think flying is anything at all like what your PC presents then you are really wrong and in for a sharp drop...good luck.

[+Dave 2,322]

Also reference the "same 6000 people comment"...did you read my posts at all? What do you think it is like sitting in the damn desert? At least the boat freakin moves and the breeze is better. Try sitting in a sandbox for months on end while some damn E-8 with a fat gut and a sorry home life tries to tell you that you are supposed to wear a specific sock with your PT gear when, in all reality, there is no such rule and by the way, your "offensive socks" where in fact ankle high, white, new, and sold at military clothing sales...those POG's are ruining the USAF about as fast as Moseley did...

 

Good point sparko. I don't see year long to 18 month carrier deployments but man there sure is a lot of people doing a year to 18 months in Iraq or Afghanistan that are AF. All this thread is doing is degenerating into a USAF vs Navy thread.

[gbnavy61 1]

Two things:

 

NROTC scholarships are gold. I did pilot training during college (as part of my major) and the Navy picked up the costs for all my flight fees. Now, the two catches to that are: they only did it because it was part of my major, and there are only 3 places I know of that have NROTC and a flight training program (Illinois, Purdon't, and Auburn), though this may have changed.

 

Nothing is guaranteed. Only your hard work and a good amount of luck ("timing") will get you to where you want to be. You can even join the Marines and sign for a pilot slot on the dotted line. When it comes down to it, if it turns out you suck at flying, you will pound dirt for a living. Even if you get past the first hurdles and make it in to pilot training, you might not get the platform you want, regardless of your ability. The bottom line is, see which service fits you best, overall. You have to be able to stand the service culture and the people you work with for at least several years. Don't base your decision entirely on: which service has the jet I most want to fly? Personally, and this is not a knock at the USAF, just my realistic self-assessment, I wouldn't have enjoyed working in the Air Force. It's just not a good meld with my personality.

[+Jug 99]

Two things:

 

NROTC scholarships are gold. I did pilot training during college (as part of my major) and the Navy picked up the costs for all my flight fees. Now, the two catches to that are: they only did it because it was part of my major, and there are only 3 places I know of that have NROTC and a flight training program (Illinois, Purdon't, and Auburn), though this may have changed.

 

Nothing is guaranteed. Only your hard work and a good amount of luck ("timing") will get you to where you want to be. You can even join the Marines and sign for a pilot slot on the dotted line. When it comes down to it, if it turns out you suck at flying, you will pound dirt for a living. Even if you get past the first hurdles and make it in to pilot training, you might not get the platform you want, regardless of your ability. The bottom line is, see which service fits you best, overall. You have to be able to stand the service culture and the people you work with for at least several years. Don't base your decision entirely on: which service has the jet I most want to fly? Personally, and this is not a knock at the USAF, just my realistic self-assessment, I wouldn't have enjoyed working in the Air Force. It's just not a good meld with my personality.

Well said, gbnavy61. Service needs come first and it is the luck of the draw as to who gets what aircraft. The only things you can control is how you do the duty you are assigned to now. Nobody gets a better job/assignment by doing the work they are assigned now poorly. Want to get as close to a guarantee as as possible, go to a service academy. They get first pick and should. ROTC gets leftovers and if there are no aviator slots in the leftovers, there are no ROTC flight school slots. Just the way it is. I was a plowback T-37 instructor in 75 looking for a fighter and all that was available was tankers, bombers, or airlift. Drawdown to Vietnam was underway and I was lucky to get a flying job at all since some of my contemporaries got a missile silo.

[+Typhoid 231]

Well said, gbnavy61. Service needs come first and it is the luck of the draw as to who gets what aircraft. The only things you can control is how you do the duty you are assigned to now. Nobody gets a better job/assignment by doing the work they are assigned now poorly. Want to get as close to a guarantee as as possible, go to a service academy. They get first pick and should. ROTC gets leftovers and if there are no aviator slots in the leftovers, there are no ROTC flight school slots. Just the way it is. I was a plowback T-37 instructor in 75 looking for a fighter and all that was available was tankers, bombers, or airlift. Drawdown to Vietnam was underway and I was lucky to get a flying job at all since some of my contemporaries got a missile silo.

 

quite a lot of my AFROTC class ended up in silo's, including several who started out with pilot slots. That week they needed missilers.

 

Which is why, in '73, when the USN offered me an NFO slot - it was sayonara to the AF and they were at that time happy to transfer me (out of ground transportation administration.............)

 

and oh by the way, of the 45 of us who started out in Navy AOCS class 24-73 - about 20 of us got our wings in the pilot or NFO track. And 18 of us survived the first tour.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Typhoid

[FastCargo 412]

The biggest fear of the Air Force students here is getting to T-38's (trainer for fighters) and then ending up "flying" UAV's.

 

Not quite true...it's worse than that, T-1s and T-38s grads are sharing the load. Also, don't be surprised if you see this option in the future for other services...I see UAVs in Navy commericals already...

 

Also, it is a single tour right now and then back to a real aircraft for the young guys. The one's really getting screwed are those with a target on their forehead to build experience for the UAV line.

 

For those bitching about what you might get out of pilot training I will remind you of the early 90s when the services found themselves with an excess of pilots. In the USN, they solved the problem by rank ordering the classes, dividing them down the middle, and dumping the bottom half...gone with a capital G. In the USAF, they went to the 'bank'...graduating and then not flying for up to 2 3/4 years. But everyone I know that happened to did eventually get back to flying. The USAF did keep it's promise in that respect at least.

 

Career's (and life) a lot of times simply play out by timing...being in the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time. I got 'banked', but that helped later on getting an assignment back to the base I was banked at in a flying capacity. I didn't stay in my weapon system, but that also means I've been flying continually for 15 years. I got stationed at an isolated location, but that really helped in getting a job in the reserve because I knew everyone in at the base and they knew me (a big help).

 

Ultimately, the service can use and abuse you...the best thing to do is capitalize on opportunities to make your position better when they come up. Half the jobs I got were long shots that I got just because I asked...

 

...and people like FastCargo like to ask you what the cube root of the nose tire pressure is on a hot day after grilling you for 40 minutes on bold face...

 

What kind of instructors did YOU have...I can't remember half that crap myself.

 

FastCargo

[toonces 4]

Just my .02.

 

I went the Navy OCS route. My story is long, but suffice it to say that my Marine PLC flying slot suddenly disappeared right before I reported to PLC jr, and NROTC was leading right to a ship.

 

Since you appear to be set on doing ROTC, here's my advice: skip that aero engineering stuff and find a major that 1) provides a decent fall-back and 2) you can get as close to a 4.0 in as possible.

 

NROTC for me was a long time ago, but I doubt it has changed significantly. ROTC (and the Academies I think) rank you based upon your GRADES. The highest ranked guys get their first choice on down until that choice isn't available anymore. Then you get what's left. You can probably imagine that things like pilot, NFO, and special forces go pretty quick.

 

By all means go engineering and load up your courses if that's what you have burning inside of you. But if you get an aero engineering degree with a 3.2 GPA, and some other guy has a Political Science degree with a 3.3, the Poly Sci guy is going to get his choice before you.

 

I had a 3.0 my first year of college. I talked to my NROTC advisor. He said "What do you want to do in the Navy?" I said, "Fly jets." He said, "Well, with your grades, you're going to be driving ships."

 

Last thought: it is good to strive for what you want to fly. But the needs of the service come first. I aced flight school, but got Orions because the Navy simply wasn't hiring jet pilots the week I selected. It could have been worse- a month later the Navy was only hiring helo pilots and even Orions were gone. So, keep in mind that you can control some things, like what you major in and what your GPA is, but ultimately alot of things will be beyond your control.

[+Typhoid 231]

GPA is absolutely a key and overriding parameter in selections. As will be class standing when in flight training.

 

Most important thing, however, is to choose the major that you like the most and can see yourself working in for decades to come (because you might be!!). That will usually result in the higher grades.

 

The 3.0 music major might be folding towels (supply).

 

on the other hand, in my last fleet squadron I had a music major NFO working for me!

 

"What kind of instructors did YOU have...I can't remember half that crap myself."

 

when I walked out to the plane as the instructor - I had a cheat sheet with me to grill the student. 'cause I didnt' remember half that stuff myself either!!!

 

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

There are other flying jobs available also. Granted first choice is a pilot, but we do still have some Navigators (WSOs in the F-15E) and Electronic Warfare Officers.

 

How good of shape are you in? If the flying gig falls through, you can always try out for the Special Tactics units. They are the Pararescue and Combat Control teams. I've known several guys from the STS throughout my career and they love the job.

 

Good luck!

Storm

 

P.S. Dont let anyone fool you into thinking we dont ride a desk. If we aren't flying, we are doing paperwork. Everyone has a ground job in my squadron.

 

I did "Air Traffic Control without a tower" for a few years. I probably enjoyed my job 40% of the time, it was stressful, demanding, and unforgiving. But it had to be. It is a lot of work and I almost washed out of training on more than one occasion. It is not for everyone and if I didn't get hurt on a deployment I would have opted to get out anyways, or tried to change to a TAC-P guy. Those are AF guys that are always with the Army doing targeting stuff and are still pretty physically active or what have you.

 

Before I was in the Air Force, I was in the Army for 1 enlistment. If you really want to fly, and don't mind rotor-winged A/C Army Aviation is relatively easy to get into, however my biggest fear in the military was flying in a helicopter.

[+SkippyBing 8]

when I walked out to the plane as the instructor - I had a cheat sheet with me to grill the student. 'cause I didnt' remember half that stuff myself either!!!

 

In the UK we have question of the day every morning at shareholders* for the baby aircrew. Obviously all the neophyte fliers are terrified they won't remember the number of gyros in the aircraft or whatever. Eventually the tyro aviators realise that the duty instructor asking the question is equally scared he'll have to demonstrate his lack of knowledge when they get it wrong so a compromise is reached where the DI tells them what he's going to ask, they find out the answers and the squadron wheels** forget they were ever in that position and no one is writing reminders on their knee boards.

 

*Morning brief, called shareholders in the RN for reasons that revolve around the high death rate in WW1/2 and a black sense of humour.

**The big wheels, e.g. CO, Senior Pilot, Senior Observer, etc.

[Stretch32 0]

Just my .02.

 

I went the Navy OCS route. My story is long, but suffice it to say that my Marine PLC flying slot suddenly disappeared right before I reported to PLC jr, and NROTC was leading right to a ship.

 

Since you appear to be set on doing ROTC, here's my advice: skip that aero engineering stuff and find a major that 1) provides a decent fall-back and 2) you can get as close to a 4.0 in as possible.

 

NROTC for me was a long time ago, but I doubt it has changed significantly. ROTC (and the Academies I think) rank you based upon your GRADES. The highest ranked guys get their first choice on down until that choice isn't available anymore. Then you get what's left. You can probably imagine that things like pilot, NFO, and special forces go pretty quick.

 

By all means go engineering and load up your courses if that's what you have burning inside of you. But if you get an aero engineering degree with a 3.2 GPA, and some other guy has a Political Science degree with a 3.3, the Poly Sci guy is going to get his choice before you.

 

I had a 3.0 my first year of college. I talked to my NROTC advisor. He said "What do you want to do in the Navy?" I said, "Fly jets." He said, "Well, with your grades, you're going to be driving ships."

 

Last thought: it is good to strive for what you want to fly. But the needs of the service come first. I aced flight school, but got Orions because the Navy simply wasn't hiring jet pilots the week I selected. It could have been worse- a month later the Navy was only hiring helo pilots and even Orions were gone. So, keep in mind that you can control some things, like what you major in and what your GPA is, but ultimately alot of things will be beyond your control.

 

Not trying to get off topic and by no means am I implying GPA isn't important so please don't come to that conclusion. However, GPA isn't everything when it comes to a selection board and I'm pretty sure ROTC and Academy routes are fairly similar. The selection boards are looking for well rounded individuals who will make good military officers first and foremost.

 

The guy with a 4.0 engineering degree who's never played a sport in his life and doesn't know what an airplane looks like will probably loose out to the 3.2 business major who was an athlete in H.S. and has a few hours in the cockpit under his belt.

 

Like was previously mentioned, find a major that you can use as a fall back and will be happy with not just one that you hope will impress the board. From there study hard to get a good GPA in that major but also work to make yourself a more rounded candidate. Selection boards are going to pick you based on a pile of paperwork in many cases so it needs to be a good read for them. Some boards will require an interview but many won't ever see you personally just the selection package you and a thousand other people sent in.

 

If you want to fly try meeting like minded people who have already been where you want to go (military aviators). They can often provide very good insight as well as solid letters of recomendation (LOR's) which are normally required in a selection package. Also, show them your motivated by working on your pilot's license. You don't have to actually get one but often times if you do it shows the boards responsible for selections your not totally untrainable as a pilot. It also shows them you have enough smarts to learn the material thats important to be successful in aviation at a basic level. This can help when your going for that pilot slot.

 

This is just my two cents as well. I had an average GPA in business (very average) and was "old" (26 at selection) but managed to get selected to go to Navy OCS with a pilot slot. I had alot of other things going for me to offset those issues though. Very good LOR's, played alot of sports in H.S. and intermurals in college, a pilot's license with a few hundred hours and solid ASTB scores (the Navy's AFOQT). It confirmed (from previous discussions with friends who had sat on selection boards) they wanted people who appeared to be well rounded and not just people who were A++++ students in a classroom with nothing else to offer. Again, just my two cents.

 

Stretch

Edited October 24, 2008 by Stretch32

[+suhsjake 11]

The way the AF ROTC here at Riddle says that you would lose to an English Major with 4.0 than a person with a 3.2 Aerospace Studies Major. But, now of days, at least from the Army, they are looking for Warriors (Leadership Development which is 30%), Scholar (Grades and Major 40%), and Athletes (30% graded on PT). They are looking for well rounded individuals who are willing to go the extra mile to do what they want.