Terrains after the patch

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Been meaning to ask this question for a while.......Is there a fix for this..example : Battle of Britain

[Canadair 16]

Been meaning to ask this question for a while.......Is there a fix for this..example : Battle of Britain

I was going to try this terrain updating, what problems do you have veltro , so I already know where to look

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

I was going to try this terrain updating, what problems do you have veltro , so I already know where to look

 

The only ones that work for me are DS, Israel2 and GermanyCE as for the rest i get this

 

 

[Canadair 16]

The only ones that work for me are DS, Israel2 and GermanyCE as for the rest i get this

 

 

Omg , I ve never seen that as total crash. you have something severly broken somewhere

I have basically all terrain working (with a few glithes but solving them one by one), except the WWII themed ones, that I have not tried yet. I suggest you install from scracth , and then you add the terrains, and then iron the little incompatibilites one by one, as described in he numerous threads around.. I know it is a silly advice, but something is badly broken ober tehre

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Omg , I ve never seen that as total crash. you have something severly broken somewhere

I have basically all terrain working (with a few glithes but solving them one by one), except the WWII themed ones, that I have not tried yet. I suggest you install from scracth , and then you add the terrains, and then iron the little incompatibilites one by one, as described in he numerous threads around.. I know it is a silly advice, but something is badly broken ober tehre

 

WWII ...thats the ones giving me trouble

[kct 5]

Hmmm. Any details like what aircraft you tried to fly? AFAIK BoB does not like those requiring large airbases.

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Hmmm. Any details like what aircraft you tried to fly? AFAIK BoB does not like those requiring large airbases.

 

 

all aircraft needed medium bases and it still crashed

[kct 5]

Have you tried reinstalling the terrain and see what happens?

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Have you tried reinstalling the terrain and see what happens?

 

RGR that , it still crashes

[Wrench 9,638]

Which cat is being pointed to in the BoB.ini???

 

I've that crash lots of times...it usually means a ground object is missing or a mission type not supported by the terrain or aircraft.

 

Which aircraft? What type of mission?

 

Also, pre-patch or post 9/08 patch? Remember the most important rule for WW2 installs:

 

DO NOT PATCH YOUR WW2 INSTALLS -- YOU'LL PORK ALL PROP JOBS!!!!

 

Let us know, and I'll try to duplicate it.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[WarlordATF 1]

DO NOT PATCH YOUR WW2 INSTALLS -- YOU'LL PORK ALL PROP JOBS!!!!

 

Don't take this as any from of arguement, i just wonder why you say that?

 

I am running my WWII aircraft post patch and all i notice is that stalls and spins are much easier to get into. They are controlable and you can dogfight in them as long as you don't try to turn too hard.Bank and Yank is outta the question for sure, but isn't that realistic for a prop fighter? The AI seems to be able to fly right on the edge without stalling and they make a pretty challenging target.

 

Is it really unrealistic that these prop planes stall and spin so easy? From what i've read the Bf-109 was very dangerous on takeoff and landing and the sim post patch seems to confirm this.

 

Like i said, i'm not arguing, you have much more experience at this than i do. I am just wondering what needs fixed to make these planes work correctly. Is it the Wing data,Engine data, Drag Data or what?

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

Is someone has the terrain BOB and they have it working after the patch, can you please send to me . I want to compare to see if there is a difference.

 

 

thank you

[Canadair 16]

Is someone has the terrain BOB and they have it working after the patch, can you please send to me . I want to compare to see if there is a difference.

 

 

thank you

 

 

Ok I had it with 2nd habd reports, I'll patch BOB and will let you know.

[Heck 496]

I fly the BOB terrain in WOI patched all the way. Some aircraft are a little wayward (He111, Me110, etc) and need to be fixed, but I get no terrain crashes, just the funky I'm buried in my airfield because there's a hill problems (sorry can't remember which fields right now), and some, my wingman wanders about aimlessly after I take off, but I had those back in the day with this terrain, so it's not a WOI problem. I point it at the WOI supplied cat, and had to edit the enviroment.ini up to latest standards to fix some water problems.

 

Many of the flight problems are MOI related, I think because so many were created for normal flight model, not hard. I'm not a flight model guru, but I've been trying to stamp out flight model problems with my BOB aircraft, I just don't have a lot of time to devote to it right now, because of real life issues.

 

Heck

[Wrench 9,638]

Well, to put it simply, and not to point fingers (C5 will do that for me)....the problems are aircraft data ini and in some case, models (or lod related)

 

I've had dozens of instances where the AI (and myself -now, I must admit I AM a bit of a yank and bank prop pilot- ) simply fall out of the sky. Or, as many have noted, wandering around the ground forever not taking off, or simply exploding on runway. To be fair, the "Driving Miss Daisy Diesase" and 'exploding for no adquatly explained reason' has been with us on several planes all the back to some of the first WW2 offerings for SF. But several new problems have become evident...we have aircraft that not only wont take off, but now they "pull" (mechanics term) so hard to the left, they cruise right into buildings and such. And I know it's not torque modeling, as US planes torque was always to ther right

 

I can under stand 109s being a bitch to land and take off, what with their narrow gear track, but having them swap end-for-end it something I've never read about. I sure don't expect an instantenous 9g pull on Mustang or Spitfire, but I DO expect them to be somewhat stable, and controlable. I don't want to be fighting MY aircraft, as well as the enemy's

 

Until someone with a greater knowledge of FMs step in and explains it to me, everything I've ever read in over 40 years of collecting and reading aviation history books, and specific aircraft books, tells me I should be able to throw these things around the sky until the cows come home, the wings come off, or General Aerodynamics catches to me and I run out of flying speed (given the limitations of the game, my own skills and how the model was built).

 

Simply put, every single one of the flight models of every single WW2 aircraft needs a complete and utter overhaul. There are NO excpetions!!! Now, I don't expect some to get done, ever, unless by an outsider, as 2 of our WW2 Builders aren't in the community anymore. As for the others...and I do know Real Life ™ takes precedence...I've seen no desire to even try to get them to have some semblance of coherency. Even after reporting directly to "The Manufactuer".

 

So, is essence, patching your WW2 install makes little or no sense. The advantages are heavily outweighed by the disadvantages. The upgrades in avionics contributes nothing to aircraft with no radar; the parked planes create other issues at the ww2 airbases (meaning: they all would need rebuilds to remove the parked statics). There are enough problems with so many aircraft, even pre-patch, that adding the 9/08 patch is just pouring gasoline on the fire.

 

Obviously, this IS just my opinon, but based on a lot of time spent simply looking for a fix. And I do have a single, all inclusive WoI -WW2 install ...with every WW2 plane out there in it, and the terrains (albeit not updated). I can pretty much state categoricly, that half a dozen or less of these aircraft I consider 'OK' to fly. (not including bombers, since they should only be AI anyway -- this is a Tactical aviation game, not a Strategic simulator.)

 

The main point is: don't expect the people that released these aircraft to attempt to fix them. This is the impression I've gotten over the last coupla years. Even before the patch.

 

Heck: are you pointing to the IsrealME.cat??? Try moving the desert or germanyce or vietnamsea terrain folders over, and point to one of their cats, see if the "sunk in the ground" issue vanishes. Just as a test, mind you If it's still there (at whichever field), it's a BoB terrain fault, probaly an 'unflattened' airfield

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

(btw, the changing the minus sign in the steerable tailwheels don't always work. In fact, it 98.6% of the time, it don't.

[+Veltro2k 6,317]

I'm getting a cold feeling up my spine

[WarlordATF 1]

Wrench,

 

I guess the flight models do need an overhaul, but Peter, who works on the FE FMs is probably the expert to talk to.

 

I have noticed the excessive torque on some planes also but i deleted a few lines from the engines section of the data.ini,

 

for example on the Mc-200_DATA.INI i removed...

 

MomentOfInertia=0.289

MinManifoldPressure=0.35

MaxManifoldPressure=1.0

 

and now they are not too bad for me, I think the ManifoldPressure and MOI entries were acting up with the new patch.

 

i'm using the hard flight model setting and the tailwheel tweak seemed to work for me, but i still need to do more testing because i have not flown all the WWII aircraft yet.

 

 

Veltro,

 

I have a version working in a WOE/WOV merged Install. Its pointed at the VietnamSEA.cat. if you want, just send me a PM with your address and i'll e-mail it to you so you can see if it works on your install.

[FastCargo 412]

I'd recommend really waiting until the new addon for WOI comes out...prop jobs (P-51) will be coming straight from TK.

 

If nothing else, that should start as a basis for FMs for similar aircraft (yea, yea, I know there are a lot of differences between aircraft, but you at least need a stable baseline).

 

FastCargo

[WarlordATF 1]

I agree, this is just trying to make a quickfix until TK gives us something solid to work from.

 

To me, the spins and stalls are worth dealing with a slightly inaccurate flight model. Its a blast to be at a couple thousand feet behind a target,sweating and trying to line up a shot when suddenly you over do it and depart and enter a spin. In alot of ways these flight models remind me of how IL2 behaves.

 

For now, Its all just for fun and i am really looking forward to see how TK models the Mustang!

 

@Veltro, Any luck with the BOB Terrain?

Edited October 26, 2008 by WarlordATF

[+Typhoid 231]

I'd recommend really waiting until the new addon for WOI comes out...prop jobs (P-51) will be coming straight from TK.

 

If nothing else, that should start as a basis for FMs for similar aircraft (yea, yea, I know there are a lot of differences between aircraft, but you at least need a stable baseline).

 

FastCargo

 

I agree. I found it much simpler to just wait a bit for the WWII stuff. Pre-patch WWII works fine.

 

I tried making a prop period install out of FE, but that didnt' work very well at all and the weapons were totally hosed.

 

so I'll wait for TK to make a prop version.

 

Of course, the third party models will still probably all need to be updated at that time.

[+Gepard 10,712]

I agree with Wrench. WW2 scenarios should be better not september patched.

I myself patched BOB and it runs. No crashes which are terrain related so far.

But the feeling of flying the birds now is more arcade than sim. The balance between enemy and friendly planes is lost.

 

By the way, which runways have the not "flatted problem"?

 

I only remember that Caffiers was one. A short fix for it:

 

[TargetArea042]

Name=Caffiers Fliegerhorst

Position=931000.000000,577600.000000

Radius=4242.640625

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

AirfieldDataFile=airfield_SLB kurz.ini

NumSquadrons=2

[+gregoryp 1]

The attached is an AvHistory.org FM for Wolf257's P-51D-30, WOI with the latest patch. It's just a cut and paste test to see "what is there" using coarse data. The focus is stability and control, so torque is turned down for testing. Lift, drag and thrust are next. But, it does give you an idea of what the WoI engine can do from a stability and control point of view.

 

What is impressive, even with the coarse data and my low quality cut and paste skills, is it shows the WoI engine has better stability and control simulation than any other retail sim out there. Just need good data.

 

The latest patch updated the debug HUD values to more human readable numbers. Find the Angular Vel: line, the middle number is roll rate in dps. Compare to the known data. It's very close to the real world data near peak roll rate. The data is pure DATCOM with Roskam and Phillips enhancements. No fudges added.

 

There are still some tables I'd like added for completeness, but if you have the right data, WoI can sim it pretty closely. And it does sim things the other retail sims do not, which is impressive for what TK calls a simple survey sim. And very important for WW2 combat aircraft.

 

So I'd recommend to keep working on the WW2 stuff and sharing how to get it to work.

 

gregoryp

AvHistory.org

P_51D30_DATA.zip

[Wrench 9,638]

Are you the same gregoryp for the old ATF/FA 714 days????

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+gregoryp 1]

Are you the same gregoryp for the old ATF/FA 714 days????

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

 

If I say yes will I be kicked off the board?

 

 

Whatever Cannon and Birdman said is not true. Those pictures were photoshopped. I was young and needed the money.

 

I sure miss that group, that was some quality/fun times.

[Wrench 9,638]

Boy, to I remember getting my ass handed to me on the Ladder!

 

Good to see you over here now Gregory! We sure could use FM people!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein