Do you fly for your own nation?

[Guest pfunkmusik]

I fly for anyone with a cool airplane.

 

pfunk

[scouserlad13 0]

Well, being English and all, i mostly do fly with RAF aircraft, and sometimes royal navy too, but recently ive began to start flying Australian Aircraft such as the F-111 (well, in an australian Skin texture) But mainly if im on strike missions or Intercept, i mainly fly RAF aircraft. Most of the time, Tornado GR1 or Eurofighter typhoon

Edited December 8, 2008 by scouserlad13

[Mannie 21]

Every once in a while??? HOW DARE YOU Only kidding.

 

Yeah well...Red Crown never answers my calls for help, so I find it easier fighting close to home base.

 

Besides, my tailpipe stays in one piece.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I mainly fly US but have also fought as British, French, German.

 

As a Frenchman, i had the greatest success as far as kills go. 57 to be exact.

[Guest Stiglr]

I really, REALLY.... REEEEEEALLLLY detest this question....

 

Nationalism has NO PLACE in flight simming (or any type of simming).

 

People who say or think to themselves things like, "If I were to fly a Bf109, I must be a closet Nazi" are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT.

 

The idea is perhaps to see what those "other guys'" planes were like, so you can get more of an appreciation as to what "we" were up against. Same with the MiGs. It doesn't make you a communist to want to simulate the experience of flying a Fishbed or a Flagon. No more than flying for the Israeli air force makes you Jewish. Or, for that matter, that flying a US plane somehow makes you more of an American than the next guy.

 

We should have a desire to fly ALL the planes, really. If your natural inclination is for fighters, don't you every now and again have a hankering to try a bomber? No, you won't totally change your stripes, but just for variety, you'll try it, maybe not even like it, but just for grins and giggles.

 

So, one's nationality has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the airplanes one flies in a sim. And it should be no consideration, either. It may provide a starting point for enjoying the game (e.g., I bought the sim because I know a little about F-4s, so I fly F-4s at first, and as I expand my knowledge, I try other planes, like Thuds, and Scooters, and then, maybe a MiG-17...) but your nationality does not bind you, or obligate you to "only fly for my country" or only to fly for "the good guys" or any of that BULLSH*T. If this drives or affects your motives, it's my opinion that.... you have some ISSUES, dude, and ones that go far beyond a flight sim.

 

Finally, it should really be becoming obvious that the whole concept of nationalism is a BIG PROBLEM for the human race, and has been since we started recording history. We should be evolving into a WORLD where we all belong to the "country" that is the HUMAN RACE. I know it's far-fetched to think about now, because nationalism is so intrenched in us... but that's where we need to be going if this planet is to survive much longer. Otherwise, we're going to blow it up or render it incapable of sustaining human life.

 

And by the way, our military sims are great examples of that, aren't they?

[Shaolin 0]

Well said!

(I fly every available bird...)

[+Muesli 2,158]

I fly every plane I have, but sometimes feel a bit patriottic and fly

the Hunter or F-86K in Dutch livery.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I've been wanting to fly MIGs in a campaign for ages. Just as i was going to look around for some stuff to download my comp got zapped and i'm grounded.

 

Guess i'll ask around to get ready for when i'm ready again.

[markjhnstn 5]

Do I feel unpatriotic if I knock down a couple of BE2s whilst flying a Fokker eIII? No, I feel really satisfied. It's all about the aircraft and the action for me, not politics and nationalism.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Finally, it should really be becoming obvious that the whole concept of nationalism is a BIG PROBLEM for the human race, and has been since we started recording history. We should be evolving into a WORLD where we all belong to the "country" that is the HUMAN RACE. I know it's far-fetched to think about now, because nationalism is so intrenched in us... but that's where we need to be going if this planet is to survive much longer. Otherwise, we're going to blow it up or render it incapable of sustaining human life.

 

I'm a Nationalist, sue me.

 

 

Also it does not play any role on what planes I fly in a flight sim.

[+Jarhead1 27]

I really, REALLY.... REEEEEEALLLLY detest this question....

 

Nationalism has NO PLACE in flight simming (or any type of simming).

 

People who say or think to themselves things like, "If I were to fly a Bf109, I must be a closet Nazi" are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT.

 

The idea is perhaps to see what those "other guys'" planes were like, so you can get more of an appreciation as to what "we" were up against. Same with the MiGs. It doesn't make you a communist to want to simulate the experience of flying a Fishbed or a Flagon. No more than flying for the Israeli air force makes you Jewish. Or, for that matter, that flying a US plane somehow makes you more of an American than the next guy.

 

 

 

 

Dude, seriously, calm down. All he did was ask a simple question as to who u fly for in a sim, he didnt start ww3 about nationalism or that someone is a communist for flying a mig or a nazi for flying a BF-109. HE DIDNT SAY THAT, so relax and enjoy simming and lighten up. We all are on here from different countries and get along, and thats how it should be. Dont start ww3 because of a simple question that was meant IN FUN.

 

Thats all I want to point out.

[don246 65]

Right Jarhead1

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A SAFE NEW YEAR TO ALL MAY YOUR GOD GO WITH YOU.

[WarlordATF 1]

Agreed, I Love My Country but i prefer the German Aircraft due to there performance not nationality. The Albatros when flown correctly can match or outclass any allied fighter, Same with the 109 depending on variant. I can take the 109K and own Mustangs all day long, Spits are more of a challenge but they can be outperformed also. Personally, I wouldn't care if these aircraft were neon pink with cute lil bluebirds for markings, its performace that matters and it seems that the German aircraft of the 1st and 2nd World Wars fit my flying style.

 

Not to single anyone out, but some people seem to think that their way is the only way to fly a sim and thats what i grew tired of and a big part of why i dropped out of the Falcon 4 community. These Sims are for fun, period. If you want full realism you won't find it in public software, you would be better off taking flight lessons.

 

One of the great things about the Thirdwire Community is that we are less judgemental and not rivet counters, If thats what you want there are already tons of sim communitys that thrive on that. We are here to have fun, whats wrong with that?

[themightysrc 5]

I'm largely with stiglr when it comes down to it. I was quite disappointed to read the response from the gentleman from Israel who said that he'd never fly an Arab aircraft. If we can't leave behind our politics when we play at being pilots from another time, then I'd say it's time for a little introspection.

 

When I play at being a pilot, I'm more or less game for anything that has wings and an engine (however I'm not zeppelinist, before you ask...). In IL2 I've flown plenty of aircraft belonging to different nations, and never felt a pang of patriotism, because I am playing. When I have a thrash at FE or RB3D (and I'd guess that many of us play both), I'm much more interested in the aircraft themselves, rather than the nation that they flew for. Hence, whilst I have a soft spot for the Sopwith Pup and Martynside S scout, it's not because I'm Briddish, but because they're interesting and fun to fly. Ditto the Siemens Shuckert DIII and Pfalz scouts.

 

In the final analysis, I play on flight sims because they allow me to experience (vicariously, and inadequately) those bygone aircraft from times gone by, without having to spend about 100 grand in flying lessons, buying an antique plane and otherwise enraging my other half.

[Silverbolt 104]

I'm largely with stiglr when it comes down to it. I was quite disappointed to read the response from the gentleman from Israel who said that he'd never fly an Arab aircraft. If we can't leave behind our politics when we play at being pilots from another time, then I'd say it's time for a little introspection.

 

Man, it's a matter of taste...I'm from Brazil and i never fly for Arab side too(i don't fly for Venezuela either)...

as i know a couple of Guys here do'nt play for WWII Luftwaffe, VVS....

whatever....

you may go to Pakistain, Turkey, Pakistain or any Arab Country and make this same question to see if anyone fly for Israel or "The Great Satan Air Force"(If those aren't being punished in a Public square for using pc ).

nobody is demmanded to play what you don't want just to be pollitically correct.

 

we have here in CA a Indian Mate that Fly for Israel(at least i just can see screens of It xD) idk if he is Muslin, Hindu or whatever, but it's a matter fun and taste.

 

Btw, yes , wars and Pollitics walk besides, so you can't just separate one of other.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Silverbolt

[Guest Stiglr]

Man, it's a matter of taste...I'm from Brazil and i never fly for Arab side too(i don't fly for Venezuela either)...

as i know a couple of Guys here do'nt play for WWII Luftwaffe, VVS....

whatever....

you may go to Pakistain, Turkey, Pakistain or any Arab Country and make this same question to see if anyone fly for Israel or "The Great Satan Air Force"(If those aren't being punished in a Public square for using pc ).

nobody is demmanded to play what you don't want just to be pollitically correct.

 

we have here in CA a Indian Mate that Fly for Israel(at least i just can see screens of It xD) idk if he is Muslin, Hindu or whatever, but it's a matter fun and taste.

 

Btw, yes , wars and Pollitics walk besides, so you can't just separate one of other.

 

The point is, those guys from other countries who use the same idiotic reasoning for not flying [insert ideology or country] aircraft are simply operating from the same deluded notion. Just change flags, rinse, repeat. As themightysrc so eloquently put it, "if you can't even PLAY without politics, it's time for some introspection." This is a HUMAN failing, not a Western, Eastern, Arab, Nazi, Communist or whatever-else failing. And at a larger level, if we don't GET PAST IT, we'll end up destroying the planet and everyone on it.

 

Yes, you CAN separate politics from wars in the context of a simulation or a game. That's one of the whole POINTS of the exercise.

 

And then, of course, we get the laissez-faire (see that's French, so, no issues with me about THEM) gamer apologists who just don't care about anything accurate, or even striving for it. They miss this point about nationalism, plus the whole point of simulation. Makes me wonder why they don't just get a Wii system and "have fun" with Mario, Wario or something else. One version of "fun" to them is same as any other...

[JediMaster 451]

It's like this...if you can't fly certain planes for idealogical reasons, it's your loss. Just like people who can't watch sci fi because it's not "real" enough for them, or dismiss NASCAR as "driving in circles." In every case, they're missing the point. However, that's THEIR problem, not yours.

Berating them for it is like trying to get people to see the contradictions in everything else they believe in...it's pointless. They have no "reason", they make the decision based on emotion, faith, upbringing, whatever.

 

So while the question is interesting perhaps in just seeing how many people are of one mind or the other (ie do more people have trouble flying "against" their side than those who don't), it's irrelevant because you're not going to change their minds.

 

Oh, and simulation isn't a zero-sum "all or nothing" either. Just because you demand good flight, weapon, and damage modeling but will settle for simplified avionics doesn't mean you should go play a Wii. It's not F4 on one side and Crimson Skies on the other with nothing inbetween. There ARE levels and some people find the middle ground quite satisfying.

[Silverbolt 104]

The point is, those guys from other countries who use the same idiotic reasoning for not flying [insert ideology or country] aircraft are simply operating from the same deluded notion. Just change flags, rinse, repeat. As themightysrc so eloquently put it, "if you can't even PLAY without politics, it's time for some introspection." This is a HUMAN failing, not a Western, Eastern, Arab, Nazi, Communist or whatever-else failing. And at a larger level, if we don't GET PAST IT, we'll end up destroying the planet and everyone on it.

 

I didn't said you can't fly separating politics...i Said in real context of conflicts.

 

btw....didn't the Israeli guy who said it mention the reason for don't fly for Arab League?

 

 

it's obvious you will not change the future/present Flying for nazi luft or Arab League.....and yet it is a great waste of time thinking this way....

 

in case of somebody didn't notice to you Israel still having trouble with nighbors.

 

 

Actually i don't really care with past(but it can't be forgoten, specially the holocaust), i'm just worried about the future.

 

btw, i found this intresting:

 

there was an good movie with Nicholas cage(i think "Windtalkers") that an USMC Soldier said about the past....

 

The Flamethower guy:

"In the past we fought agains the indians ...now they're fighting with us...that was the same with Britishes and it will be the same with Japaneses."

and japan is US Friend now.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Silverbolt

[+Tailspin 3]

The POINT is when we are playing we can play how we like. No one is any more "idiotic" in their reasoning than anyone else.

 

I never really liked shooting down my "own" side. Go figure. What does it matter?

[Silverbolt 104]

The POINT is when we are playing we can play how we like. No one is any more "idiotic" in their reasoning than anyone else.

 

I never really liked shooting down my "own" side. Go figure. What does it matter?

Acually i've never shooted down any Brazilian Plane in this sim.

Conccur

[Shaolin 0]

I think what Stiglr means is: If you cannot even leave ideology and nationalism behind if you PLAY, it will only get worse in RL...

...and I think he is right!

 

I like to fly with the Luftwaffe in IL-2 - because I like the Me 109 and especially the FW 190! But I loved to fly the I-16, too (even with its poor armour...)! And was really sad the French side only offers soviet fighters...

[Silverbolt 104]

Well, does anybody really said he don't fly for Ideological reason?

 

but i don't belive we get better flying for enemy side(yet on RL)will not be with a game you will know how is the other side life and understand it's motivation.

[themightysrc 5]

"you may go to Pakistain, Turkey, Pakistain or any Arab Country and make this same question to see if anyone fly for Israel or "The Great Satan Air Force"(If those aren't being punished in a Public square for using pc ).

nobody is demmanded to play what you don't want just to be pollitically correct."

 

Well done on spectacularly missing the point, as well as dragging politics into it.

 

My point was that you should be able to separate your feelings about politics and ethnicities from your interest in the subject of air combat and the relative virtues of different aircraft. I loathe Nazism, but I am interested enough in German planes of WWII to wish to find out what those aircraft might have been like to 'fly' (in a play sense). Dragging the canard of 'political correctness' into the discussion seems to me to be woefully out of place.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Well done on spectacularly missing the point, as well as dragging politics into it.

 

 

I think some of you are missing the even bigger point. Who are you to tell some other person he is wrong or right for how he chooses to run a computer program that he paid for with his own money? That's right, it is not your call. Don't worry about what someone else does with a product they purchased for their own entertainment.

 

I don't see anybody like that slagging you for flying for the "enemy" so why should you slag them for not wanting to?

 

If everybody would just stop telling everybody else how they are supposed to think and be, the world would be a much better place.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Jeremiah Weed

[Guest Stiglr]

I think your point is IRRELEVANT.

 

JWood:

 

Everyone here with a brain knows that, in the final analysis, he can do whatever he wants with the game or sim he purchases.

 

That's simply obvious. And it's really not a good way to "avoid" the discussion. It's just a smokescreen so that some people don't have to think about the relevant issue here.

 

What is relevant is that anyone would still be wondering 'what anybody would think' of their choice of aircraft or nationalities when playing a computer game, and that real life would have any impact on limiting or dictating their choice. Even someone who is drawn to flying for "their country" shouldn't also be dead set against flying for that country's enemy in a game. That, on its face, shows an inability to separate real life and real history from a computer program.

 

@Silverbolt: yes, anybody who says, "Well, I can't or won't fly for [whatever nation]" or "I only fly for my country" is making an ideological choice, whether they want to admit it or not. Otherwise, what's difference if I fly a MiG or an F- plane?