Navy skipper's bikini gaffe

[Nesher 629]

An Australian Navy submarine commander is in trouble for suggesting women sailors wearing bikinis would boost recruitment.

 

Commander Tom Phillips also revealed the submarine equivalent of the "mile-high club" is the "going down club".

 

In an interview with men's magazine Ralph, he revealed the naval uniform works to "either pull a chick or get in a fight".

 

When asked: "If female sailors all had to be hot and had to wear bikinis, would that help recruitment?" the commander was quoted as replying: "It would certainly get the right demographic of young men in. I'm not sure how feasible it is, however."

 

The country's opposition and feminist groups have taken exception to the article, demanding action.

 

Australia's Minister for Defence Personnel Warren Snowden said the comments were "utterly unacceptable".

 

"If these comments are to be attributed to this newly-appointed commander, I think it will go down as one of the shortest careers in naval history," MP Bob Baldwin said.

 

Australia's navy is suffering a recruitment crisis and had to stand down for two months over Christmas because there were not enough sailors.

 

source

 

the commander is right...

Sea Patrol didn't do the job i guess

[+ST0RM 145]

He didnt say anything that was wrong, IMO. He just stated his opinion that IF such thing was allowed, you would increase the number of recruits.

 

If a nightclub only allowed in ugly chicks, do you think guys would go here? Not many.

 

Gotta love the PC media.

Edited January 18, 2009 by ST0RM

[Guest pfunkmusik]

How asinine.

 

pfunk

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

An Australian Navy submarine commander is....

NO WONDER recruitment is down yonder. Run don't walkabout away.

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

Sorry, but this chap is a twit. I assume Commander will be his last rank. A professional doesn't go 'native' with a men's magazine.

[+Typhoid 231]

Sorry, but this chap is a twit. I assume Commander will be his last rank. A professional doesn't go 'native' with a men's magazine.

 

 

I have to agree. An appalling lack of common sense. And common sense is what a Navy Commander and sub skipper is supposed to have. No matter what Navy and country he is from.

[Ghost029 1]

Sorry, but this chap is a twit. I assume Commander will be his last rank. A professional doesn't go 'native' with a men's magazine.

Also agree. I cannot even imagine one of my skippers making a remark like that. They have 15 to 20 years experience by this time. If one of my skippers had made a remark like this, he would have lost command of his boat immediately. End of career.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

This story is a complete beat up, both by sections of the media and by the opposition who're trying to keep attention away from their own internal squabbles at the moment. The Cmdr in question was being interviewed by Ralph magazine (similar to FHM or Maxim). The questions were posed to him in a casual, jocular way (he didn't make the statements of his own volition and that's the crux here!) and the commander responded with equal tongue in cheek. Both He and the interviewer in question weren't taking the situation seriously at all. There were even some in the media here (ABC and a few others) who asked how it could be taken seriously considering the magazine's history of hard hitting journalism, such as their monthly top ten bums listings.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Australia's navy is suffering a recruitment crisis

 

Pretty sure it is the entire military, I was contacted by an Australian recruiter and offered an "Overseas Lateral Transfer"

 

Here is part of the email:

 

The Australian Army Overseas Transfers are only open to people that are currently serving or have previous service with a foreign defence force, hold the rank or held the rank of at least substantive Sergeant and meet the skills required by the Australian Army. Once assessed, most applicants will drop one rank upon transferring. If you are required to drop more than one rank, a request will be sent to you via e-mail. You must be eligible to discharge within 12 - 18 months of submission of your application.

 

 

 

The point of contact for all queries regarding your application is myself or Miss Sue Laurence on +61 3 5258 0637 or you can e-mail us on scma.osenlist@defence.gov.au

 

 

 

Attached is your application to Transfer to the Australian Regular Army.

 

 

 

Thank you for your interest in joining the Australian Regular Army and I look forward to receiving your application in the nearby future.

 

 

 

 

I politely turned them down.

[eraser_tr 29]

I'm with SayWhat! on this one. People freaking and jumping all over this aren't realizing it's meant to be serious, especially know the Australian sense of humor is even more way out there than the British. He simply made a crude joking observation that people would think, but usually wouldn't say.

 

Would anyone get mad at stephen colbert for saying something like that? No, it's simply expected and more obvious its meant to be funny. And quite frankly a boss/commander that's always completely serious sucks to work around.

[gbnavy61 1]

Well, I think the article is funny, but I have to agree with the other Navy guys here.

 

This is one of those "perceptions = reality" things. The sub skipper should have watched his comments regardless of the fact that this was a light-hearted interview. If you wear the uniform, any uniform, you are supposed to represent your service well in a public setting. He dropped the ball on that one.

 

Unfortunately, we live in times where a few poorly chosen words can end a career. However, it usually isn't hard to recognize when to say something and when to keep mouth shut.

[scouserlad13 0]

HAHA "going down club" PRICELESS!

[Rambler 1-1 9]

desperate times call for desperate measures, but who is honestly going to join the navy because of a couple of chicks in bikinis? Well, women didn't work, so I'm guessing that they'll just move on to the next things most likely to attract men; money and alcohol! Sounds like a good time!

[+SkippyBing 8]

move on to the next things most likely to attract men; money and alcohol!

 

Worked on me....

[+Jug 99]

Worked on me....

In my opinion, we are dealing with two things here. PC conduct and officer conduct.

 

Not sure what the PC world expects in terms of male conduct. It appears to be an on-going battle. On one hand you sorta want the male type in the military, but it is not PC to use male expressions about females. Guys are guys and guys like girls.........duh! What if they didn't like girls (talking about straight guys here since I know nothing about the other type)? Is it exploitation to look at every female you see and envision her in a bikini? Or weaing nothing at all? If so, we all are going straight to exploitation hell. To put the question more directly to the point, how would a girl feel if a guy looked at her and did not imagine her in a bikini? It is the same thing as a girl wearing a short skirt and frowning when the boys stare at her legs. What if they didn't stare? It is a mindless, chaotic, duplicitious state. Setting the gay community aside as a minority, guys like the girls, like they way they look, and will continuously envision them in all sorts of sexy stuff. It is just the way it is. Do the girls not want that to continue? I think so! Otherwise, all this fuss about fashion should go away and Muslim dress rules should prevail.

 

I doubt if the guys would stop envisioning the girls in bikinis anyway.

 

Now having cast the PC world as it is, it is another thing entirely to have a serving military officer, much less a commanding officer, speak publicly (that is what occurs when you speak to a reporter of whatever flavor) about his/her crew in such a manner. Discretion is how officers deal with things not explcitly regulated by written guidance and this dude does not understand what that means. As an indicator of how he would handle future situations requiring a little of this discretion, in my opinion, he is not fit to command anything. It is their Navy, so Aussies will do as they see fit, but to my way of thinking this guys days as a commander are numbered because he is unable to grasp the concept of discretion. It is really irrevelant that the subject is what it was.

[charlielima 328]

My perception of what military officers should be about is discretion, leadership, discretion, and command.

Yah I know I said discretion twice.

This skipper will probably be the president of the Going Down Club.

:ph34r: CL

Edited January 18, 2009 by charlielima

[+SkippyBing 8]

it is another thing entirely to have a serving military officer, much less a commanding officer, speak publicly (that is what occurs when you speak to a reporter of whatever flavor)

 

During our work up phase before deploying we actually have simulated press embark onboard for a couple of days (simpress), they're real media people they just aren't really reporting. They get some knowledge of the RN out of it and we get some experience talking to the press. A large part of their work is getting the ship's CO up to speed with dealing with the media, the exercise staff have us conducting some sort of police action at the time intercepting arms smugglers, providing aid to civil powers etc. so the sort of stuff that could involve media coming onboard.

For reasons that escape me they decided to interview the flight personnel, either because we'd given them a ride in our chopper or because the reporter fancied my oppo (the reporter was very PC in that he liked boys, watching my mate try and avoid being caught in a tight space with him was highly amusing). Anyway the Navy's PR instructor had told us that the key is to keep to the three points you're trying to push and to avoid commenting on anything outside your area of expertise. This is actually much harder to do than it sounds and I can now spot politicians etc. trying to do it when they're interviewed.

The main thing I learnt from this is that I will do anything in my power to avoid speaking to the press. Oh and if you're being interviewed on camera stand next to someone a similar height as you or your face gets obscured but the subtitles.

[Guest pfunkmusik]

We were told in my time in the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets that you are an officer and a gentleman. You lead and behave as both. Any infraction that was considered ungentlemanly was punished by the upperclassmen.

 

Now, we're guys, though. We worked hard to get into the shorts of any girl, and the instructors knew it, but you kept your business a hundred miles from the flagpole.

 

pfunk

[Ghost029 1]

Gentlemen and women, I can't speak for the Aussie navy and my experience is twenty plus years old. However sub skippers have made a career out of PC. Competion is extremely high for a boat command (Aussie navy only has two or three boat operational I believe, some one correct me if I am wrong). The boat skipper has had perfect evals for a decade or better. Ours had to go through Nuke school also. I am sure that my skippers would hit a stripper bar in a instance. They would not be in uniform and would not talk about it except to fellow officers. They would never talk to a reporter of any sort about any thing is not PC. Extremely unlikely that they would speak to any civilians about anything not PC.

[+Typhoid 231]

I'm with SayWhat! on this one. People freaking and jumping all over this aren't realizing it's meant to be serious, especially know the Australian sense of humor is even more way out there than the British. He simply made a crude joking observation that people would think, but usually wouldn't say.

 

Would anyone get mad at stephen colbert for saying something like that? No, it's simply expected and more obvious its meant to be funny. And quite frankly a boss/commander that's always completely serious sucks to work around.

 

you've missed the point. Its not whether what he said was funny or whatever. It is the discretion of talking to a reporter and having those comments printed from a senior officer in command of a ship, or sub.

 

Its simply the fact of life that all of us who have or do now wear the uniform have had to learn and deal with for a very, very long time. The press has established itself very consistently as the enemy of those in uniform who will very gladly print or broadcast any comment taken out of context to crucify someone in uniform. It has been so for a very, very long time. This idiot forgot that and is now about to pay the price.

 

There is a very fundamental difference from being in uniform or not having ever worn one. I do not say that to critizise. Its simply a fact that most of us have learned the hard way.

[charlielima 328]

My perception of what military officers should be about is discretion, leadership, discretion, and command.

Yah I know I said discretion twice.

This skipper will probably be the president of the Going Down Club.

:ph34r: CL

 

I totaly forgot to mention HONOR. Honor to what your job in the Navy is. Honor to your mates in the same shop, division, squadron or ship. One can blow it all with a journalist. Officers of the US military get it. Typhoid, Fast Cargo, and Jug, UK guys and many others on this site. It makes the difference between a non com / petty officer looking at the ground shuffling his feet mumbling obcenities or replying with a hardy aye aye after recieving a direction. Hot subject right now for me. I'm dealing with a "manager" who doesn't manage but reacts, who should be first in line for vocal cord removal. No Discretion. Honor?

:ph34r: CL

Edited January 19, 2009 by charlielima

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

But many of you are discounting the cultural difference here. For one thing, we're known for being generally relaxed over here. It's a bit of a stereotype, but it's true. If this had happened in the US, there's no question that there's be calls for his dismissal, for an apology, etc. But here, seeing him as just a guy in the ADF answering questions from Ralph (knowing what they're like and what they'd probably ask), most people here will look at this as an authority figure who said something stupid and dismiss it, or maybe as someone who should have bit his tongue. People will look at the man rather than the services on this one (just going by the feedback I'm hearing on local radio and by people I speak with). The only people who seem to be baying for his blood are the Coalition (not to make it political) and others who're trying to score some mileage out of this. The ADF is a little sensitive about it's image (especially when it's professionalism comes into question), but I think if it was announced that he was being stood aside, they'd gain the bad publicity they're seeking to avoid.

 

As for the honor, it won't be the first thing on the minds of the general public. They'll look at it like most Defense Force issues, with a detached point of view. Military culture isn't as ingrained in our culture as it is in, say, the US, where the military touches almost everyone's lives in one aspect or another (ignoring the historical context for the moment). Most people will know or have known someone in one of the services there, will live nearer military facilities, have been on a ship, been to an airshow, and so forth and of course most people here will have had relatives in the services during WWII. But most won't know a lot about the ADF today, and if pressed, would probably only be able to recite something vague about Gallipoli, Kokoda, Midget subs or the Darwin bombings-- at a stretch, Simpson and his donkey. To them, this event will be a negative, but joining the ADF really isn't at the forefront of the public's minds, so it won't do much to dissuade people from joining.

[charlielima 328]

And this is another thing I DON'T GET. Australia has always been big in the same cultural ideals that are supportive of a military culture. Both by participating and a supportive role. I hope I didn't sound like I wanted to shred Aussies here. If I want to mess with Y'all. I'd ask for a rugby game. Well Doggies! That would be swell for fun also. It would be way bitchin if all involved gets a splendid pep talk and comes out of this mess wiser and smarter. Unfortunatly anything the skipper says to a journalist, you or I post here or any where goes straight to the whole world for thier interpretation or ammo for thier movement.

:ph34r: CL

Edited January 19, 2009 by charlielima

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

And just for the record, I apologise if that sounds a little cynical, but if I go to one more godd***ed job interview where they ask me stupid questions about it, I'll snap! I mean, when I used to work at the University of Adelaide, a few particularly "intellectually obsolete" people in my department I worked in thought people who committed lower level crimes were given the choice of joining the army or going to jail!! From what I've been getting over the years, the average Australian's attitude towards the services is pretty apathetic unless its about the cost of a new platform or our troops are somewhere. Then they suddenly have an opinion.

 

 

By the way, Ghost, we have six conventionally powered Collins class subs in our 40 ship navy. They're kickass little platforms too, once they got the majority of the bugs out of their systems. Even nailed the amphibious assault ships USS Tarawa amd USS Rushmore during Rimpac 2002

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

From what I've been getting over the years, the average Australian's attitude towards the services is pretty apathetic unless its about the cost of a new platform or our troops are somewhere. Then they suddenly have an opinion.

 

Is it really this bad? I didn't even know anything like this was happening until I was actually contacted to be recruited by the ADF after leaving the US military. They apparently are going after mid-level NCOs and company grade officers that recently left service in good standing in allied military pretty hard. All kinds of immigration laws are waived and all sorts of stuff it bent to get you in. I was amazed at all of it.

 

Nothing against Australia, I just don't think morally I could fight for another country, and I have had enough of war for my lifetime, so I turned it down.