Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
macelena

A question about F-106

Recommended Posts

I was reading an article on convair delta series, wich stated that "the new F-106

was able to perform interceptions in all weather, up to 60,000 ft and Mach 2"

 

Was the Dart able to open the internal bay and release the weapons up to

Mach 2?

 

I find it quite hard, and i don´t know how could, in example, a Tu-22

be intercepted at supersonic with a door opened in the belly of the fighter

Edited by macelena

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the exact limiting speed, but the system was designed to allow supersonic interceptions so I would not have any problem believing that the doors and launch rails could cycle at any speed up to the aircraft's maximum. I'll check the pilot's manual and see if there is any info on that.

 

The main limitation of the F-106 weapons bay was that it was operated pneumatically and there was only enough compressed air for three cycles of the system. Two cycles for the AIM-4 system and one cycle for the Genie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No limitations that I remember in the Dash One on weapon release airspeeds, but the classified stuff may have more info than I had access to.

 

MPD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that the doors would only be open at the time of weapons release (for example, a bomber doesn't fly to it's target with the bays open), just opening them momentarily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking along these lines...your squadron is chasing down a flight of Tu-22 who're doing something like 500kts at 45000. You're probably climbing and going supersonic, maybe 1.1 or 1.2 and eventually they see you coming before you've made range. They go for a supersonic dash, which is something like 1.4 for that model and maybe split up to increase survivability. You've finally made altitude and chase a pair down at something like 1.9M, they're pushed to the limit in a shallow dive at something like 1.5 with engines close to overheating/overspeeding. You make range (circa 3 miles?) and get a little closer because you know the open bay is going to hit you with drag like a sledgehammer.

 

Do I recall correctly: the missile/radar system in the Dart was GCI with the pilot going "hands on" within aircraft radar range? Also the armament options were 2x AIM-4 plus 1x Genie or 4x AIM-4 so do I assume the three cycle pneumatic supply was with the heavier Genie load, where it could cycle four times with the lighter AIM-4?

And bay operation was automatic with weapon release wasn't it? (ie. the bay wasn't manually controlled)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't recall any plane ever suffering from "bay door = air brake". Some have had separation issues requiring things like extending the bomb rack into the slipstream, or an "air dam" to alter the airflow so the store can separate cleanly, but I don't recall ever hearing one story of a plane that had adverse drag that was noticeable over the short period the doors are open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

purely second-hand - but an associate of mine is a former F-106 driver. He said one time long ago that the doors were automatic when the firing button was pushed and the missile was pushed out and fired with the doors retracted very, very quickly.

 

he stated that he could fire supersonic although I don't recall him stating any particular limitation.

 

he also said that the profile for firing a nuke at supersonic followed by evasion for survival was -

 

"interesting"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having flown an aircraft with 3 sets of internal bay doors, I can tell you that the drag was minor when the bay doors were open. They did have speed limits for use, but they certainly weren't big huge brakes in the slip stream.

 

FC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, i understand that bay doors aren´t airbrakes, but i was concerned about their behaviour while operating

at supersonic speeds. I didn´t think that it could cause trouble under Mach. But hearing you advice, i´m more

confident now about how would the Dart have performed in a real conflict.

 

What got me concerned now is the point of C5 at the limitations of the pneumatic aperture, wich could have

been solved with all the modifications at the 70s along with the Gunpod and the new canopy.ç

 

Thanks all for the help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having flown an aircraft with 3 sets of internal bay doors, I can tell you that the drag was minor when the bay doors were open. They did have speed limits for use, but they certainly weren't big huge brakes in the slip stream.

 

FC

 

Excellent. A primary source reference. Which type of aircraft? What was the "speed limit" for bomb bay use? What were the projected effects of transgressing this limit (airframe damage, etc.)? What kind of "trim" effects happened when bomb bays were opened? What is the approximate speed with which bomb bays open and close (how long are they open)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, sorry for getting excited. All I know is from books. It's just great to hear directly from people who know "the low down" first hand. According to some sources for example the F-15 might have trouble getting past 1.8 Mach with external stores fitted, but a cleaned up version set up for a record attempt can break 2.5. These are qualified aeronautical engineers with an amazing detail of specific knowledge about construction materials and the effects of various speeds upon them. I just assumed an open weapons bay with jutting missiles would have a similar effect.

 

The B-1B is designed for supersonic penetration at low altitude, right? Circa 1.12 Mach or something like that? The bomb bays have rotary internal launchers, yes? Weapons like SRAM or ALCM (or iron bombs, etc.) are dropped from within?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The B-1B is designed for supersonic penetration at low altitude, right? Circa 1.12 Mach or something like that? The bomb bays have rotary internal launchers, yes? Weapons like SRAM or ALCM (or iron bombs, etc.) are dropped from within?

 

I suggest you to start a new topic. I´m not disturbed that you put it there, but if you are interested in Lancer, many people who is

interested could give no s**t about Delta Dart. Btw, i think your data is correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything is right but the speed. The F-111 could go supersonic at sea level, but the B-1B was more high subsonic. I mean, 600kts is still damn fast at 200 ft, but I think only the Vark was ever meant to actually break Mach 1 down there...not that I know how often they'd tempt fate and actually DO that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Everything is right but the speed. The F-111 could go supersonic at sea level, but the B-1B was more high subsonic.

 

I can neither confirm nor deny that statement.

 

:biggrin:

 

FC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm not mistaken, the F-105 was also supersonic on the deck. It was designed as a tactical nuclear strike aircraft. It also had a bomb-bay, although in practice they only ever carried fuel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I'm not mistaken, the F-105 was also supersonic on the deck. It was designed as a tactical nuclear strike aircraft. It also had a bomb-bay, although in practice they only ever carried fuel.

 

As a devotee of the toughest aircraft Republic ever made, i will confirm that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't distracting the topic, merely making the point the Dart extended its missile pylons into the air stream before launch. Am I wrong on this? At speed, how long did it take to cycle a weapons release?

I mean at the very least, you'd expect a big trim hit, but once again I've only my imagination to work with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, and We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue..