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Siggi

DiD players.

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I have no idea how many people are playing DiD, but for those who are (if any) the following question...

 

Would you like a killboard?

 

I'm currently trying to get hold of my JG boss, who developed an interactive online killboard, but his current whereabouts are unknown (he's gone AWOL effectively). Even if/when I do manage to get hold of him there's no guarantee he'll do the biz, or that I'll be able to configure it myself (I'm no scripting expert, though I know a bit and might be able to do it myself).

 

The alternative, temporary or permanent, would be for me to run one manually (as I have done in the past, and on a much bigger scale).

 

Essentially pilots would email me their results, on a mission-by-mission basis, or cumulatively after a number of missions, and I would update their stats manually.

 

It's nothing more than an added dimension of fun, a central public location where all DiD pilots (and anyone else who's interested) can see their running tallies (missions, hours, claims, kills, medals etc).

 

If enough of you are interested I'll set it up. Otherwise no worries and as you were. :)

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And how can you guarantee that all are playing by the DiD standards? I can put my guns to tight and strongest and have a cannon instead of an MG..

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And how can you guarantee that all are playing by the DiD standards? I can put my guns to tight and strongest and have a cannon instead of an MG..

 

Well, one can't. It's a matter of trust and honour.

 

The only person being cheated, really, is the person who cheats.

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Count me in too, though I'm not getting as much flying time as I'd like working away. Presumably we'd all start with fresh characters? My longest living pilot is now 100% DiD but hasn't always been.

Edited by Dej

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Aw God...the problem is that I dont really fly DiD as I have my Death on normal (Die Roll on crash) and not Dead is Dead...so I am not pure DiD :ohsnap: :whistling:

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Sounds pretty cool Siggi. But it's probably a fair bit of work for you if people want to update their stats after each mission ! Goodonya if you're willing to take it on. But, to be honest, I thought we'd only post when successfully reaching 17 hours ? As for cheating, surely we HAVE to provide a pic of our campaign mission stats (after reaching 17 hours) proving we are at 100% realism or higher ? For example, you CANNOT be at 100% or higher when setting guns to tightest/strongest as per Gous's post. Also WM has previously indicated he can tell if warp has been used via some kind of magician's sorcery so I presume you could also ?

 

Now it's okay to use the tac and padlock right ? But labels are a no no (subject to debate with MK2) ? So which option(s) fall into the trust and honour bit ? For instance, I've still got the "bullet hit" text switched on purely out of habit and laziness in never having switched it off. Is this considered a cheat ? Should I do the honourable thing and turn it off ... or try and slip it in the backdoor while no-one's looking !

 

The trouble with trust and honour is it can soon degrade into a DID ! DID NOT ! DID SO ! DID NOT ! DID TOO ! etc etc although I hasten to add we are all probably way too gentlemanly here to resort to such petulance (we'll leave that to Fishingnut :whistling: )..... but one never know does one !

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Sounds pretty cool Siggi. But it's probably a fair bit of work for you if people want to update their stats after each mission ! Goodonya if you're willing to take it on. But, to be honest, I thought we'd only post when successfully reaching 17 hours ? As for cheating, surely we HAVE to provide a pic of our campaign mission stats (after reaching 17 hours) proving we are at 100% realism or higher ? For example, you CANNOT be at 100% or higher when setting guns to tightest/strongest as per Gous's post. Also WM has previously indicated he can tell if warp has been used via some kind of magician's sorcery so I presume you could also ?

 

Now it's okay to use the tac and padlock right ? But labels are a no no (subject to debate with MK2) ? So which option(s) fall into the trust and honour bit ? For instance, I've still got the "bullet hit" text switched on purely out of habit and laziness in never having switched it off. Is this considered a cheat ? Should I do the honourable thing and turn it off ... or try and slip it in the backdoor while no-one's looking !

 

The trouble with trust and honour is it can soon degrade into a DID ! DID NOT ! DID SO ! DID NOT ! DID TOO ! etc etc although I hasten to add we are all probably way too gentlemanly here to resort to such petulance (we'll leave that to Fishingnut :whistling: )..... but one never know does one !

 

The DiD rules for OFF will be posted on the site, and will be strictly defined such as to remove all and any ambiguity. :yes:

 

I would like to attempt to reach a consensus on some aspects.

 

What do you chaps want to be the main thrust of your DiD experience? Survivability? Missions flown? Hours flown? Or kills made? On first inspection this question may seem redundant. It's all about the kills, yes?

 

Or how was it in reality, for a real pilot...?

 

With the TAC off, combat will be the exception rather than the rule.

 

With the TAC on, combat will be the rule rather than the exception.

 

TAC on aids navigation if you are flight-leader.

 

TAC off doesn't matter re navigation if you are flight-follower.

 

Should the DiD rule be that you have to be flight-follower? Does the sim work well enough now to allow that as a reliable function? If it does I suspect TAC off will still result in more combats than if you go TAC off as flight-leader.

 

What I'm getting at here is do you want kills to be rarer and thus of more value achievement-wise, and go for hours as the greater yardstick of success, or do you want it a bit more full-on and focus on claims/kills?

 

I know I've mentioned "consensus", but that's pie-in-the-sky probably. Given all the possible combinations of options everyone is going to end up with something that isn't quite perfectly to their liking. The solution to that would be as it has been in the past, for me to just say "this is the most overall realistic solution and this is how it's going to be, like it or lump it..." But, if at least a consensus on "hours or kills" can be reached I can configure the rules accordingly.

 

Please give me your thoughts.

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In my opinion you cant guarantee that everyone is playing DiD. And I am sure that there arent many players here who play strictly DiD following every rule of it. I for instance, even though I play 100% realism (no die roll on death for me anymore) I warp for one second in almost every mission in order to get lined up with my flight. Sometimes they climb fast and I am 1000 feet under them. So I just hit the warp for 1 second, go up and get out. I mainly fly without TAC (I aint flight leader) but I activate it every 5 minutes for about 3-4 seconds. This is like scanning the sky for EA. Of course the range is at 2NM and aircraft only.IMHO The biggest immersion killers in non realism controlled options are TAC in dogfights and the targeting cone. The best you have to do (if you dont have TrackIR) is disable the cone, and of course, never target any airplane because you can follow it anywhere with the " ` " button. Just increase the panning speed (#16 FAQ) and you will see a big difference. It is very difficult to maintain eye contact with a non targeted airplane. But it is very realistic.

 

To sum up, I think that you must make sure that everyone in the killboard are running with 100% realism. This can be done by flight log screenshots. Then, next to the user's name in the killboard you will write his DiD variation. And what is DiD variation? Well some of you play DiD strictly without any rule breaking. Lets say that a user "A" which is DiD pure sends you his kills etc. Then in the list he will be like this--> User A /Kills 10/Hours etc.../.../ *PURE DID*. But a user "B" may fly an altered DiD (but still DiD mainly) and uses lets say, labels. Then it will be--> User B /Kills 11/.../.../../ *DiD variation-labels on*.

This is my proposal.

Edited by Gous

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I've no doubt you're right about the LIOLI standard (like it or lump it)...........someone's got to hold up the yardstick and measure every pilot by the same standards....otherwise, what's the point? Flew several campaigns (apallingly short ones) by DiD standards and become quickly aware that unless I had TIR I was toast. I couldn't begin to track the action with the POV's on a hat switch.....just an occaisional flicker of plane passing my nose in a blur....snap shots that I'm sure made no dent on the bad chaps. I did find the immersion factor ramped up enormously and the fear of collision or being shot to bits out of nowhere was pretty gripping. To give myself any kind of chance I left the TAC on and used padlock to get a sense of things in a furball. As you say, without the TAC I missed the action entirely 9 times out of 10...only being aware of attack when bullets were whistling around my wings....and then it's too late.....maybe after 1.26 the AI won't cripple us so easily. The combat's the juice for me.....and if you're going to have a kill board....you have to be there to kill 'em. I can live without the long run to target.....I just don't have the time....and have been grateful that the devs let that WARP count as real time. You're idea is great and I'll jump on board with pleasure whatever the DiD/LIOLI standards turn out to be. Cheers...GAW

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In my opinion you cant guarantee that everyone is playing DiD. And I am sure that there arent many players here who play strictly DiD following every rule of it. I for instance, even though I play 100% realism (no die roll on death for me anymore) I warp for one second in almost every mission in order to get lined up with my flight. Sometimes they climb fast and I am 1000 feet under them. So I just hit the warp for 1 second, go up and get out. I mainly fly without TAC (I aint flight leader) but I activate it every 5 minutes for about 3-4 seconds. This is like scanning the sky for EA. Of course the range is at 2NM and aircraft only.IMHO The biggest immersion killers in non realism controlled options are TAC in dogfights and the targeting cone. The best you have to do (if you dont have TrackIR) is disable the cone, and of course, never target any airplane because you can follow it anywhere with the " ` " button. Just increase the panning speed (#16 FAQ) and you will see a big difference. It is very difficult to maintain eye contact with a non targeted airplane. But it is very realistic.

 

To sum up, I think that you must make sure that everyone in the killboard are running with 100% realism. This can be done by flight log screenshots. Then, next to the user's name in the killboard you will write his DiD variation. And what is DiD variation? Well some of you play DiD strictly without any rule breaking. Lets say that a user "A" which is DiD pure sends you his kills etc. Then in the list he will be like this--> User A /Kills 10/Hours etc.../.../ *PURE DID*. But a user "B" may fly an altered DiD (but still DiD mainly) and uses lets say, labels. Then it will be--> User B /Kills 11/.../.../../ *DiD variation-labels on*.

This is my proposal.

 

I'm pretty sure you can run a campaign pilot at any realism level, then change the settings and his log shows that new rating, regardless of what he was run at before.

 

I've no interest, either way, in running checks. If somebody wants to run at 0% realism, with every aid going, and still claim he's playing DiD, good luck to him.

 

Gous, I may go with your idea. Considering all the hardware issues and personal issues people have it may be the only viable option.

 

DiD = pure DiD.

 

W = Warp

T = TAC

L = Labels

 

Giving, for example,

 

DiD/T

DiD/W

DiD/TW

 

and so on, with realism always having to be at least 100%, however it is derived (there are various combinations of settings that give it).

 

I've got four killboards done, one for each nationality, but I'm still undecided which way to go with that, seperate ones for each nationality or a single one with everyone mixed. What are the thoughts on that?

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In general, I like the solution Gous and Siggi have worked out (as well as Siggi's acronyms for the variables). My guess is that I'll run different variables at different times if such options are available (except for the Warp...I really have come to prefer the experience of being in realtime the whole time). But I have no problem with my totals being registered as DiD/TL, for instance, if SOMETIMES I use labels or SOMETIMES I use TAC.

 

I don't think this is really about competition (and so I also have no concern/interest in any kind of verification). In fact, it would serve as an aid to realism and immersion, for me, to have something like this board going IF it seems to be focused on just what Pilots at the time would be focused on, which I assume is some combination of the choices Siggi offered above.

 

So, to speak to that, my sense is that WWI pilots weren't concerned with hours racked up. Kills, yes. How not? And a tally board keeps some competition alive about that, for them and for us. But I'm guessing that survival ranked pretty darned high! I would think missions flown also means something significant. Even without kills, it's a mark of how much service and risk is being offered and accepted. I think I would think highly of a mate who has been up there day in and day out for a long time even if he didn't have many kills to show for it. That would be a significant way to emphasize survival, I think.

 

So, I lean toward emphasizing missions (and thus survivability), and let the kills come as they come, which seems more realistic to me. Of course, this is for fun, so kills matter in a different way for us. But some of the fun, at least in OFF, comes from the immersion, no? All this would mean, I think, that I lean toward limited use of TAC, and labels only briefly to see who one is fighting. Personally, I may use the TAC more than that sometimes, if I can do so and have that be indicated on the board to distinguish my flying from someone doing "pure" DiD.

 

Oh, and as to boards, I'm good either way. By nationality makes a kind of historical sense, but it's not as if these pilots didn't keep some track of the pilots flying for the other side.

Edited by griphos

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Hmmm...my thoughts on nationalities are to have this: One list for each nationality, and at the side, one list containing the top four (one of each nationality). Or maybe top eight ( two of each) etc. etc...

I dont think it is rather hard to write a code for this type of thing (because I have figured out that you are ready to create a small program to make the killboard) . Also, griphos mentioned something about survivability being more important than kills. That is really a personal opinion and we have to repsect that every single person may have his own point of view in what is more important. So in each list, we are going to put kills, hours flown, missions flown. And you can select to view the killboards in descending order regarding hours or kills or missions.

Also, some of us use the TAC all the time, and some of us occasionally, some of us use labels all the way till the mission ends, some of us only in certain occassions. So maybe it would be even better to have this symbolism: DiD/T (this one uses TAC all the time) and DiD/t (this one uses TAC on certain occassions). Because I think it makes a difference.

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Hmmm...my thoughts on nationalities are to have this: One list for each nationality, and at the side, one list containing the top four (one of each nationality). Or maybe top eight ( two of each) etc. etc...

I dont think it is rather hard to write a code for this type of thing (because I have figured out that you are ready to create a small program to make the killboard) . Also, griphos mentioned something about survivability being more important than kills. That is really a personal opinion and we have to repsect that every single person may have his own point of view in what is more important. So in each list, we are going to put kills, hours flown, missions flown. And you can select to view the killboards in descending order regarding hours or kills or missions.

Also, some of us use the TAC all the time, and some of us occasionally, some of us use labels all the way till the mission ends, some of us only in certain occassions. So maybe it would be even better to have this symbolism: DiD/T (this one uses TAC all the time) and DiD/t (this one uses TAC on certain occassions). Because I think it makes a difference.

 

The automatic board has the functions you describe, but I have still heard nothing back from the chap who developed it. So it's going to be manual.

 

I'm going to go with seperate boards for each nationality, with a combined ace board for those who have died or been captured and have a minimum of five kills. Entries on that will be permanent. Entries on the regular boards will be cleared upon death or capture.

 

I've got most of it done now. One unfortunate thing is I've discovered Dreamweaver has done away with forms that submit to an email address and now require server-side handling, involving special code. I'll be hosting this board on a bog-standard ISP server that provides zero specialist functionality (cgi, php, mysql etc), so submissions will be via standard email-to-email. Not a biggie, just it would have been nice to have a proper form on the site.

 

I should have it up sometime tonight. :yes:

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I'm pretty sure you can run a campaign pilot at any realism level, then change the settings and his log shows that new rating, regardless of what he was run at before.

 

I've no interest, either way, in running checks. If somebody wants to run at 0% realism, with every aid going, and still claim he's playing DiD, good luck to him.

 

Gous, I may go with your idea. Considering all the hardware issues and personal issues people have it may be the only viable option.

 

DiD = pure DiD.

 

W = Warp

T = TAC

L = Labels

 

Giving, for example,

 

DiD/T

DiD/W

DiD/TW

 

and so on, with realism always having to be at least 100%, however it is derived (there are various combinations of settings that give it).

 

I've got four killboards done, one for each nationality, but I'm still undecided which way to go with that, seperate ones for each nationality or a single one with everyone mixed. What are the thoughts on that?

 

YES!!! DiD/WTL for me , for the boards how about seperate ones AND one general one combing the info for the other 4? best of both worlds.

 

The focus should definitely be kills. I can avoid comabt every time in my Spad and I can gurantee I'll surivie the war at 130% realism at pure DiD, so misison time to me is secondary to kills.

 

Siggi I am getitng pretty excited about this . Is there any support combatace can give you ?

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Bless you Alex. :good:

 

No support needed thankyou mate. The manual one should work ok on my cheap-ass ISP's server, and if I ever get my hands on Jetlag's Killboard-omatic again I'll get a hosting package. :yes:

 

I don't want to run both a combined board and four seperate ones, it would double the workload (duplicate entries for all pilots). I recall with fear and trepidation the days when I was manually running my online war (around 200 active pilots at any one time) and that was two solid hours every single morning (killboard and stat updates), plus another hour or so every evening (mission building). :crazy::biggrin:

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What a great idea.i never use anything else than DID because with my lacking english i didn´t know what DIE ON DeathROLL means and when my pilot was dead he was ..dead.simple. NOW i know that i can refly a mission with DODR but in phase 2 we were told to ignore that,so i got used to it and never went back.i just fear that this list may become obsolet when people start to send fantasy kills just to see them self on top of the list.we need some kind of control(screenshot of carreerboard etc.)

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Siggi- Bravo's on putting this together. While some may have considered you outspoken on the Forum, you do, as we say here in the States.."walk the talk". ;>) !

 

Regards,

Royce

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