I hate to go against the grain here...

[tn_prvteye 36]

But combat seems to have gotten much easier since 1.26...too much easier. I can usually down an EA with one pass...granted that did happen in Real Life occasionally. The AI seems to have gone back to it's pulling up, stalling, then recovering tactic (reminiscent of Phase 2). This is what makes it easier for me to get rounds into the cockpit since every time I engage, they pull up and present me with a nice juicy target. Did I miss something in the install? I've got everything on the most "real" level I can make it in the workshops. I've tested mainly in QC against aces (in one flight I downed 3 ace AlbIIIs with a Strutter...front gun only), but I have flown a few campaign and seen the same thing.

 

I tried a fresh install, then patched to 1.28.

 

I've read various posts about CPU speed effecting the AI, but I'm getting smooth frames. I've got the sliders on 5-3-3-4-1.

 

Specs:

Core2Extreme o/c @2.99

4 gig RAM

8800GTX 768mb running latest drivers.

XP SP2

 

Any ideas? I hate to complain since I still love this sim, but everyone else's posts about these great dogfights has gotten me jealous and wondering if I screwed something up.

[OvS 8]

But combat seems to have gotten much easier since 1.26...too much easier. I can usually down an EA with one pass...granted that did happen in Real Life ™ occasionally. The AI seems to have gone back to it's pulling up, stalling, then recovering tactic (reminiscent of Phase 2). This is what makes it easier for me to get rounds into the cockpit since every time I engage, they pull up and present me with a nice juicy target. Did I miss something in the install? I've got everything on the most "real" level I can make it in the workshops. I've tested mainly in QC against aces (in one flight I downed 3 ace AlbIIIs with a Strutter...front gun only), but I have flown a few campaign and seen the same thing.

 

I tried a fresh install, then patched to 1.28.

 

I've read various posts about CPU speed effecting the AI, but I'm getting smooth frames. I've got the sliders on 5-3-3-4-1.

 

Specs:

Core2Extreme o/c @2.99

4 gig RAM

8800GTX 768mb running latest drivers.

XP SP2

 

Any ideas? I hate to complain since I still love this sim, but everyone else's posts about these great dogfights has gotten me jealous and wondering if I screwed something up.

 

What are your AI settings set to? It does sound like something is wrong.

 

OvS

[Hellshade 110]

So you haven't had enemy planes doing swirling dives for the deck? Or one pulling off solo while the remainder try to get around behind you? Where I have noticed the biggest change is, yes it's easy to shoot them down but all it takes is for them to get a few rounds in you and then you can't manuever very well at all. So basically I find that I either win without getting shot at all or else I get shot down. Rarely do I make it home "wounded" unless it's down to me and one pilot I'm fighting who is also now flying a damaged crate.

 

Hellshade

[Parky 8]

What are your AI settings set to? It does sound like something is wrong.

 

OvS

 

 

 

Something definitely wrong. I just came out of a QC.....6 Tripes against 6 DRI's. It appeared to me that both my wingmen and the enemy pilots had been into the same jug of methamphetamines.....served with a side of real pissed OFF. Total chaos. Put a few rounds in one EA who broke high and somebody sawed my wing off.....lol. This all happened in about 18 seconds flat. Sheer insanity!!!

 

 

How many different ways can you spell phun!!!!!???

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Parky

Edited March 13, 2009 by Parky

[tn_prvteye 36]

Well, I've got everything on "realistic" in the Workshop settings. AI Range at realistic, guns both front and rear on "hard", my guns strength on normal (not strong or strongest). The only thing I don't have is Dead is Dead. That's on die-roll. For the QC tests, I've set the enemy AI to "ace". I usually have 1 wingie with me which I set to Rookie.

 

I've seen them break off, but the usually just dive away. I can usually get on one's tail and kill him before the others have time to re-group. Again, I'm testing mainly in QC as I can't control the experiment in campaign mode.

 

I'm going to un-install...patch to 1.25...do some QCs and see if I can tell a difference in AI behavior. I know that 1.26 introduced a new damage model, but I didn't think it changed any AI dogfight stuff.

[+Polovski 460]

Something sounds screwed with your install then if you think they are bad.

Contrary to what you think higher sliders generally seem to produce better AI not what you expect. i.e. the engine doesn't check if your CPU/GPU is struggling speed and tone down AI, it does the opposite- looks at what sliders you choose and then adjusts AI to match. As far as we can tell anyway.

 

Phase 2 installed previously? If so I'd add/remove programs, wipe OFF Manager from registry, reinstall from scratch.

 

Try random AI, try campaign, and try other craft, and set QC to defaults (no advantage etc).

 

Try some faster craft maybe?

 

For kicks I just flew (3 wingmen each, 4v4)

Dogfight,

Enemy skill: Random

Enemy situation : Normal

10,000 feet.

 

Camel V DVII

DVII v Camel

Se5a v DR1

Camel v DR1

Se5a v Alb DVa

 

Fab time really enjoyed it. Plenty of movie material :). Dead a few times, got a few. Craft up high, some diving, some staying put, one point me chasing an DVII, in turn chasing a Camel,chasing a DVII chasing a Camel. Had a blast testing!

[tn_prvteye 36]

I cleared Phase 2 before I installed Phase 3.

 

Haven't had time to do a re-install yet, but I'll let you know of my results. I haven't gone to SP3 yet, just updated all the critical updates separately.

 

Maybe I'll mess with the sliders just to see. Funny thing is, 1.25 had better AI for me, so I don't know. I'll figure it out...

 

Thanks for the tips, guys!

[tn_prvteye 36]

Well, did a re-install of 1.28 and even upped my sliders a bit. Still seems to easy bring an EA down to me (again, I hate to complain). Maybe since I've been flying more, my aim is just getting better! ;)

 

I tried 5 Biffs against 5 Alb DVas. Albs on "Ace" F2bs on "Rookie". We creamed them...I got three myself...with no damage taken. Tried 5 Pups against Alb DIIIs. Creamed them again. I got three again. They always do the same thing...spiral dive, then steep climb to stall...that's where I put the rounds on target, and that's all she wrote...wings come off and they spiral down.

 

Gonna ponder this for awhile. I think I'll try and go back to 1.25 and experiment.

 

Thanks again for listening.

[tttiger 0]

If you're doing all this experimenting in QC, the AI is a lot smarter and more challenging and harder to predict in a campaign. Try that....

[Fortiesboy 3]

You don't say, but I presume you are flying in full cockpit, no labels, no padlock etc

If you have this "no cockpit, but use the HUD" method, then maybe it isn't too hard, but i can't see it being easy in "full" real.

Half the time it's hard to know where they are-lol

[Olham 164]

I ditto, what Parky and others said.

It shouldn't appear "easy" - I mean, sometimes in campaign, you also have rookies, like those

2 Nupe 17 yesterday, who made the mistake to approach our 3 Albatros D Va, with only a little

advantage in height, and I killed both within 3 minutes.

But on the other hand, you should see flights, that split up, some attacking, the others going up,

to come down on you with more advantage. And aces often do special manoeuvers; more tricky.

 

But off course: as soon as you can hit a craft severely, it will often not be able anymore to perform

agile manoeuvers. You can let it fly on and pick the next, when there's a furball.

As long as you manage, not to get hit yourself, it can go "almost easy" - but so often have I thought

just that for a sec - and "sprazzle" - was I hit from some unexpected angle.

 

My advice:

- Pick a "non-top plane", like the Albatros D V or D Va, or an S.E.5a, or a Nieuport 17.

- Fly a campaign in late 1917, or in 1918. "Radar" and target cone off; all most realistic/hard.

- pick a Jasta/Squad, that's offensive and in the tough combat areas.

- survive 17 flight hours

 

If that should still feel "easy" all the time, there is either something still wrong with your install, or you can

put yourself in front of a mirror and look at an ace (Lol!)

But try first...

Edited March 13, 2009 by Olham

[Wels 2]

Hello,

well the AI is as good as in 1.26 or so it seems to me. If you are up for a real challenge try to start a campaign with the Fokker Eindecker in 1915, or 16, and try to shoot down anything. Provided you fly at hard settings, that is. Seems in 1915 the ammunition is tuned down to 550 bullets due to simulate the E.I that flew in 1915 ? Don't know, never reached 1916 yet lol. Trying to fly the E. in OFF every plane is better than yours already in 1915. I use the HUD, and the target circle but meanwhile i was still shot down 20 times during the first mission. 20+ campaigns ended with this "sadly you have died in combat" right after the first sortie lol. Encounter a flight of any other plane type other than the BE2 and you're toast. The one time i downed a BE2 i was instantly killed by AA fire, at 6000 feet *grrr*. And it seems i alway meet flights of 4 or so Bristol scouts, and the E is no match.

Seemed the E was also suffering from some flight model problem, but it seems this has been slightly changed since the last patch (this unrecoverable "banking slide") - if so, great !

What is also nice in patch 1.28 (among some other great details) is the rotary planes on the ground now turn on the spot, which is as it should be (light tail and heavy engine) and as seen in the historical footage. Some rotary planes even had to be held fast at the wings edges, until their nose pointed to the direction to which it was intended to start.

The patches seem to do a lot more in details, than is mentioned in the official patch history (?)

 

Anyway the Fokker E-type does not seem right to me, in 1915, and up to april 1916 there was no allied plane that would compare to the E or so i thought ? The Morane parasol and N/Bullet planes, and X-wire Farmans are not included in OFF - yet . Those and the early two-seaters were what this Fokker scourge was made of at all.

 

B.t.w.: Is there any AI difference in single mission or quick combat, against the AI in the campaign ?

 

Thanks and greetings,

Catfish

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Flying as I do in campaign, with just me and a map...no labels, hud or any of that malarky, there is nothing easy..except getting yourself killed

[Creaghorn 10]

Anyway the Fokker E-type does not seem right to me, in 1915, and up to april 1916 there was no allied plane that would compare to the E or so i thought ?

 

as a matter of fact the e was indeed a very poor aircraft. the allies were terrified and talked about the scourge. but there were only a handful e's to cover a large area. they knew the names of the best of them (prof.immelmann, boelcke). they feared them like ghosts but more because of propaganda and gossip than actual hundreds of shot down aircraft. because they thought it was a kind of new Wunderwaffe. when they started, they knew: "oh dear, immelann is somewhere out there in this area..."

when they finally captured an intact eindecker, they tested it and actually were embarrassed because of the terrified fear of them. they realizied the eindeckers had very poor performance, but good pilots and could have been matched by not only scouts, but a lot of armed two seaters of the time as well. the philosophy at this early stage was to run, whenever one of the ghosts with this wunderwaffe is seen.

[Olham 164]

Hahaha! Great report, Creaghorn.

Perhaps zee Dshermanns invented zee psycholodgik warfare?!

Vee paint zee planes most colorful ant bright, and zee enemy ssinks, vee vere not at all affraid of zem!

 

Cheers. Olham

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

" ...Hahaha! Great report, Creaghorn. ..."

 

Yes, i second that, i even am aware of it, however it is also true that there was no scout with a m.g at that time, only some more or less helpless X-wires along with a few N-type bullets. This was all the scourge was about, the E WAS heavily over-estimated by the Entente, however it ruled the skies still until may 1916. After this it was used at the eastern fronts like Macedonia, and Russia, along with the already obsolete Pfalz Eindeckers.

 

" ...Perhaps zee Dshermanns invented zee psycholodgik warfare?! ..."

 

Ahh, goot idea, i vill dropp proppaganda posters over ze brritish errordromes !! Then they vill fear ze mighty Wels (see avatar) ent fall down ass zoon assey zee mee ! Maybe i should paint this cat at the cowling lol !

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[+Polovski 460]

tn_prvteye why not try the settings I said, you have customised it some.

 

set it as:

(3 wingmen each, 4v4)

Dogfight,

Enemy skill: Random

Enemy situation : Normal

10,000 feet.

 

Camel V DVII

DVII v Camel

Se5a v DR1

Camel v DR1

Se5a v Alb DVa

 

some other more lively enemy craft ?

 

You definitely seem to be seeing something different to others - make sure you go via OFF Manager and not from cfs3.exe too.

[OvS 8]

as a matter of fact the e was indeed a very poor aircraft. the allies were terrified and talked about the scourge. but there were only a handful e's to cover a large area. they knew the names of the best of them (prof.immelmann, boelcke). they feared them like ghosts but more because of propaganda and gossip than actual hundreds of shot down aircraft. because they thought it was a kind of new Wunderwaffe. when they started, they knew: "oh dear, immelann is somewhere out there in this area..."

when they finally captured an intact eindecker, they tested it and actually were embarrassed because of the terrified fear of them. they realizied the eindeckers had very poor performance, but good pilots and could have been matched by not only scouts, but a lot of armed two seaters of the time as well. the philosophy at this early stage was to run, whenever one of the ghosts with this wunderwaffe is seen.

 

 

Also, don't forget it was fear based on the fact that the E series had a mounted, forward firing MG that was inline with the aircraft's line-of-site.... synchro-gear. I'd be scared to death of something getting near me with that too. Meanwhile, all I could do it try and maneuver my tail-gunner into position.

 

It was the perfect machine for the time period and very quickly out-matched once the Entente figured out how to use a synchro-gear.

 

OvS

[tn_prvteye 36]

tn_prvteye why not try the settings I said, you have customised it some.

 

set it as:

(3 wingmen each, 4v4)

Dogfight,

Enemy skill: Random

Enemy situation : Normal

10,000 feet.

 

Camel V DVII

DVII v Camel

Se5a v DR1

Camel v DR1

Se5a v Alb DVa

 

some other more lively enemy craft ?

 

You definitely seem to be seeing something different to others - make sure you go via OFF Manager and not from cfs3.exe too.

 

Well, after a few more experiments, I am seeing some different things. I tried just 1.25 for awhile, and noticed that since it takes longer to down an EA, the fights are obviously longer. It also seemed...seemed...that the AI was a little more aggressive. This could be due to the fact that they open fire at greater ranges, right?

 

So, loaded up 1.28 and tried the same QC mission (Se5as against DVas...random skill for both, 10K). Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it seems the AI kept doing the pull-up and stall trick more...especially low to the ground...again like in Phase 2.

 

NOW, I tried a few Campaign missions, and definitely noticed an improvement. Needless to say I didn't last long! I even managed to rip a wing-tip off colliding with a DIII (I was in a Biff)...and I actually made it home alive. That's the first time I didn't automatically explode when I collided with another aircraft.

 

So, I think everything's sorted. But I have one more stupid question...or two. How does the Front gun/Rear Gun setting change gun damage? I know at the Hard level, there's more "spray", but do they do more or less damage at this level?

 

Also, at the "realistic" range setting, does the AI fire closer or further out? I hate to ask, but "realistic" could be either.

 

Whew...sorry for the long post. And thanks again for the continued support of the great product.

[+Polovski 460]

1.26 has new FMs.

AI can manoeuvre better but so can you and probably more so given you are human and pushing the boundaries.

1.26 has more gun damage on default.

1.26 has weaker wings

 

So yes it IS different. AI is not.

 

 

Hard - less damage more spray (same damage as originally default)

 

Same for Rear

 

AI range effects the AI range

easy is easy.. for you.

normal is recommended.

realistic makes it harder

 

 

snippet from http://www.overflandersfields.com/Downloads.htm some of the changes in 1.26

 

- FM improvements, roll rates for some, altitude performance improved mainly on inlines plus Fe2b. Stall and spin effects improved on some.

- CoG fixed to fly more level on some craft that were too nose or tail heavy.

- Damage values of all craft wings and wing tips reduced. Control cables and Ailerons strengthened.

- N11 N16 N17 and Albs lower sesquiplane wings weakened slightly

- N11 low level AI dogfight performance improved

 

etc...

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Some good updates there!

 

I had never felt there were any real issues...though the N11 did fly a bit poorly as AI...that was the only little issue I have ever noticed so far

[Olham 164]

I came to OFF in October, but seem to be a rookie, still.

FM, CoG - call me out-of-date or old fashioned, but I don't understand the shorts quite often.

Perhaps easier for the English? I'd be happier, if you would write them out.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

FM = Flight Model

CoG = Center of Gravity

AoA = Angle of Attack

DM = Damage Model

[Flyby PC 23]

Also, don't forget it was fear based on the fact that the E series had a mounted, forward firing MG that was inline with the aircraft's line-of-site.... synchro-gear. I'd be scared to death of something getting near me with that too. Meanwhile, all I could do it try and maneuver my tail-gunner into position.

 

It was the perfect machine for the time period and very quickly out-matched once the Entente figured out how to use a synchro-gear.

 

OvS

 

 

Ever watch 'Wings'? A 1970's TV series about the RFC. I was just a young kid, but I still remember the introduction of the Eindecker's forward firing machine gun devastating the British Morale, - armed only with pistols and no parachutes as I recall. Wouldn't mind seeing that series again sometime.

 

Sorry tn_prvteye, don't want to take you off topic...