Vulcan armed Navy Phantoms ? (WoV)

[thudg 1]

Is there a way to alter the weapon loadouts for USN F-4s in WoV so they can't carry 20mm Vulcan cannons? It is my understanding USN Phantoms "NEVER" carried guns throughout the entire war. Navy hierarchy just wouldn't allow it regardless of pilots pleas. On another note, unlike the later F-4J, the F-4Bs did not have a look-down shoot-down capability. There is no way to decrease the AIM-7 Sparrow / F-4B radar effectiveness in WoV but there must be a way to remove the Vulcan cannon from all F-4B & F-4Js. It can be especially frustrating when flying as a VPAF pilot. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

p.s. - Hope they come out with "WoV II"

 

thudg

[Fubar512 1,350]

Is there a way to alter the weapon loadouts for USN F-4s in WoV so they can't carry 20mm Vulcan cannons? It is my understanding USN Phantoms "NEVER" carried guns throughout the entire war. Navy hierarchy just wouldn't allow it regardless of pilots pleas. On another note, unlike the later F-4J, the F-4Bs did not have a look-down shoot-down capability. There is no way to decrease the AIM-7 Sparrow / F-4B radar effectiveness in WoV but there must be a way to remove the Vulcan cannon from all F-4B & F-4Js. It can be especially frustrating when flying as a VPAF pilot. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

p.s. - Hope they come out with "WoV II"

 

thudg

 

The easiest way, is to extract the respective loadout.ini files for each model 'Rhino, place them inside the respective aircraft folders, and then edit out the line for the centerline gun pod in each one. Be aware that the Marine Corps F-4s did occasionally carry gunpods in action....

[Viper6 3]

Tk said WoV II is already in the works My F-4B does not have a internal gun i have to carry a gun pod. stock F-4B in pic

Edited March 22, 2009 by Viper6

[+331Killerbee 840]

Is there a way to alter the weapon loadouts for USN F-4s in WoV so they can't carry 20mm Vulcan cannons?

 

Yes, By going to the Loadout Screen and Not loading on Your Aircraft and the rest of Your Flight.........

 

Or if you just don't want them loaded on any Navy F-4.....Remove any mention of a SUU23 Like Fubar512 said above......But it would be false....They loaded them for CAS as did Marines durning Vietnam. The reason they didn't do it often is that they had to be hung from the Centerline Stations, And Phantoms pounded the Deck durning Carrier Landings. The Navy just didn't have enough of them. Marines even rare.....But they had SUU-23's........We were infested with them by 72' when I got to VMFA-235.....

Edited March 22, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

Oh BTW, There was the Ole' 3 Barrled Mk 4............

 

 

And Yea, I said Air to Ground.......Not Air to Air.....

Edited March 22, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

Just to back up My claim. VMFA-542 on 8 Oct. 1968. Were operating F-4B's out of DaNang, AB, South Vietnam. They reported expending 16,065 Rounds of 20mm for the Month of Oct. They used the Mk.4 for their Runs.

 

Sources?

 

VMFA-542 Unit Chronology (03A31368) for the Month October 1968 dated 8 Nov.1968.

 

The U.S. National Archives & Records Adminstration (CACTA) Combat Air Activities File 09/01/69-10/31/68

 

 

Not to mention, This Ole' Jarhead used to load them.....

 

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

[mppd 16]

Is there a Mk4 Gunpod in the weapons packs? I don't ever remember selecting one. There are several photos in the Squadron-signal Marine F-4s in Combat book. Two barreled I think...?

[+331Killerbee 840]

The Mk.4 came in two different Flavors durning the war......The "Early" Version as You mentioned, was a Two barrled Pod. It was modified later to a Version that was basically a 3 barrled Vulcan....The true Suu-23's were full blown Vulcans...Of course, One might not find alot of information on them durning the War. Pretty much the reasoning was, Think of Vietnam as a giant "Weapons Test Bed". Weapons were modded and changed so many times durning the conflict it's hard to keep up with all the little changes....especially the little ones. But the Weapons of Today owe their exsistance to their development durning the Vietnam Conflict....

 

Mk.4 is in StrikeFighters2 out of the Box....

 

Oh, BTW....There was a 3 Barrled Version of the Suu23 too....

 

331KillerBee

Edited March 23, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

Maybe I need to expand alittle more.

 

The reason in Barrel combinations was the fact that the ROF (Rate of Fire) would need to be increased. But by increasing ROF ment more Recoil. Units had to find the best combination for their Airframes or the Aircraft would Stall. Also the Pods were Belt fed and would eject the spent Cases and Linkages. There was a worry of FOD damage and ingestion to Engines if not placed right......

[+331Killerbee 840]

One more thing of note, and I'll check out. A wild combination used durning the War was VMA-211 using Gun Pods on their A-4E's on one Mission. The Loadout was 3 Mk.4's with their internal 2 Mk.12's.......

[+Piecemeal 450]

To go back to the issue of making sure you don't have a gunpod on Navy F-4s, just go to the aircraft's DATA.INI file and go down to here:

 

 

[CenterlineStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=5

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.37,-1.01

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-2.0,0.0

LoadLimit=2050

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,EOGB,LGB,NUC,MER,RCN <-------------- If there's 'GP' on this line, delete it

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=pylon_centerline

PylonMass=24.95

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=

MinExtentPosition=

MaxExtentPosition=

 

Also, make sure that there's no guns added to your LOADOUT.INI file

[Viper6 3]

Wow without a gun pod and the unreliability of the misseles you are in for a tough time vs the mig's

[+331Killerbee 840]

Or better yet, Don't load them from Your LoadoutScreen.........Make them Capable through the F-4Data.INI (Adding GP), But change the Loadout for that Mission in the Loadout.INI....They won't load them unless You make them....

Edited March 25, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

Here's My Entries for the F-4J. But it can apply to any Navy Phantom if You want....

 

F-4JData.INI

 

[CenterlineStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=5

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.37,-1.01

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-2.0,0.0

LoadLimit=2050

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,EOGB,LGB,NUC,GP,MER,RCN <<<<< GP is still in there

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=pylon_centerline

PylonMass=24.95

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=

MinExtentPosition=

MaxExtentPosition=

 

F-4JLoadout.INI

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[05].WeaponType= <<<<<<<< Removed SUU23/Mk4 Entries.

Loadout[05].Quantity=

Loadout[06].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Loadout[07].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[07].Quantity=1

Loadout[08].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[08].Quantity=1

Loadout[09].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[09].Quantity=1

Loadout[10].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[10].Quantity=1

Loadout[11].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[11].Quantity=1

Loadout[12].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[12].Quantity=1

Loadout[13].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[13].Quantity=1

 

This way one can load them if You want or need them. It keeps the Phantom still Gun Pod capable, But You and the rest of Your Navy/Marine Flights won't automatically load them. Just remove any reference to SUU23 or Mk4's from the Loadout.INI, and You're set....

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

Edited March 25, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee 840]

And if You want to get real technical about Your Navy/Marine Phantoms......Add TER's to the Outboard and Centerline Stations. If it can carry a MER, It can surely carry a TER......

 

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

Edited March 25, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[Wrench 9,851]

You can also do it this way (this of off the F-4N)

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[05].WeaponType=SUU23

Loadout[05].Quantity=0 <--the use of a "0" tells the game engine NOT to load this weapon

Loadout[06].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Loadout[07].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[07].Quantity=1

Loadout[08].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[08].Quantity=1

Loadout[09].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[09].Quantity=1

Loadout[10].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[10].Quantity=1

Loadout[11].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[11].Quantity=1

Loadout[12].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[12].Quantity=1

Loadout[13].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[13].Quantity=1

Loadout[16].WeaponType=Tank600_F4 <--because we're using this

Loadout[16].Quantity=1

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Crusader 2,101]

MK 4 gun pod (with MK 11 cannon, always two-barrelled) was used by USN fighters only during one line period on Yankee Station for a test.. it was judged " worthless " ... too many problems, like unreliability, pod takes away the centerline fueltank which made it neccessary to use wingtanks which lead to spotting probs on the deck 'cause mounted wintanks are big and "stick out" thus taking much more space etc ...

 

The MK 4 gun pod was used more frequently by land-based USMC squadrons on F-4 and A-4, which was going OK apparently, since there were no carrier-ops related troubles, but some reliability issues remained.

 

Another user were the Black Ponies, flying OV-10A . They used the MK 4 pod fromthe centerline station, also reported reliability issues but the pod was great ....if it worked

 

The three-barrelled pod, thats the GPU-2, with a M-197 20mm cannon, 300 rounds capacity and its battery powered. IOC was in the early 70's, iirc. ( 1972/73 or so)

 

The SUU-16/23 pods with M-61 Vullcan cannon used all linkless feeds, and only the empty shell casing were ejected . During loading ( with linked ammo), the belt was run through a delinker which stripped the rounds off the links, moving them into the ammo drum

 

The pods in the video are all SUU-16's

 

 

Edited March 25, 2009 by Crusader

[+331Killerbee 840]

The GPU-2 used the Mk 4 Pod. Sometimes the aft Section of the GPU-2 were flat. Gas Supressor on the end was alittle different. We used to call them "Mk.4-3's"......But it's no biggie.

Edited March 25, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+Crusader 2,101]

Perhaps you guys had a rebuild Mk 4 , where the Mk 11 cannon was replaced with the M-197 .. ?

The GPU-2 is much smaller in diameter, its an entire different pod, no relation to the Mk 4.

[+331Killerbee 840]

Perhaps you guys had a rebuild Mk 4 , where the Mk 11 cannon was replaced with the M-197 .. ?

The GPU-2 is much smaller in diameter, its an entire different pod, no relation to the Mk 4.

 

Wouldn't doubt it. H&MS ORD Units did alot of monkeyin' around.Yes the GPU-2 was a Smaller Dia. But were in the Mk.4 Housing We used..... The M-197 had a Re-Chargable Battrey in the Pod. The Mk.11 Mod 5 had to use the Aircraft's own electrical System. I never seen both on Phantoms, Just smaller Aircraft.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[sugarblues 0]

If you really want to be creative, you could do what I did with my WoV install; I have separate USN and USMC Phantoms - just copy the a/c folder, rename the appropriate .ini's (in my case F4B and F4B_USMC). That way my Leatherneck Phantoms carry gunpods, and my Brownshoe boys carry the 600 Gal tank. If you're into campaigns - don't forget to go into the campaign files and make the appropriate mods to the individual squadron entrys.

 

SB

[thudg 1]

Here's My Entries for the F-4J. But it can apply to any Navy Phantom if You want....

 

F-4JData.INI

 

[CenterlineStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=5

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.37,-1.01

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-2.0,0.0

LoadLimit=2050

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,EOGB,LGB,NUC,GP,MER,RCN <<<<< GP is still in there

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=pylon_centerline

PylonMass=24.95

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=

MinExtentPosition=

MaxExtentPosition=

 

F-4JLoadout.INI

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[05].WeaponType= <<<<<<<< Removed SUU23/Mk4 Entries.

Loadout[05].Quantity=

Loadout[06].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Loadout[07].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[07].Quantity=1

Loadout[08].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[08].Quantity=1

Loadout[09].WeaponType=AIM-7E-2

Loadout[09].Quantity=1

Loadout[10].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[10].Quantity=1

Loadout[11].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[11].Quantity=1

Loadout[12].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[12].Quantity=1

Loadout[13].WeaponType=AIM-9H

Loadout[13].Quantity=1

 

This way one can load them if You want or need them. It keeps the Phantom still Gun Pod capable, But You and the rest of Your Navy/Marine Flights won't automatically load them. Just remove any reference to SUU23 or Mk4's from the Loadout.INI, and You're set....

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

[+331Killerbee 840]

 

BTW, A good subsitute is that 600gal CL Tank someone has suggested.....

Edited April 1, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[thudg 1]

Thanks to all for fast response. Removing GP & modifying station [5] did the trick. Unfortunately, removing the gun also removed all AIM-7's. All F-4B & J's only carry AIM-9 now. Tried leaving centerline tank off as well but still no Sparrows. I'm sure I missed one little detail, but this still makes flying over the North much more accurate. I still have F-8's, Air Force F-4C gunfighters & Huns to deal with when flying for the VPAF. Maybe one day I will actually survive a WoV campaign. It's always been full difficulty or nothing.

Another note I heard as to why USN birds relied on center tank only was because full wing drop-tanks caused Phantom to oscillate during catapult launch.

It was good to hear from people that were really there. My only close encounter w/ the Phantom II was a pair of R.o.K F-4E's during my one year PCS at Osan AB. Got as close to the end of the runway as possible. A sight & vibration I will never forget.

TSgt J (thudg) USAFR

[+331Killerbee 840]

Removing GP & modifying station [5] did the trick. Unfortunately, removing the gun also removed all AIM-7's. All F-4B & J's only carry AIM-9 now.

 

Another note I heard as to why USN birds relied on center tank only was because full wing drop-tanks caused Phantom to oscillate during catapult launch.

 

TSgt J (thudg) USAFR

 

Sounds like a Typo in the Loadout.INI somewhere......I'd check that first....

 

Yhea, Plus the fact that it took away Ordnance that could be hung from those Stations durning Alpha Strikes.....An IFR Probe was a must for Navy/Marine Phantoms...

 

 

331KillerBee

Edited April 1, 2009 by 331Killerbee