Flak in WoV

[Canadair]

The Firecan itself is set up as "Static-AAA", and given an availabilty value of "Very_Rare". This spreads them around, with an average of one per every 30-50 square kilometers.

 

Excellent,, this is really a good idea. This is worth actually a sticky me thinks

[malibu43]

I've found that the best compromise, is to use realistic altitude and engagement distance values for the various AAA guns (My KS-30s reach up to 33,000 feet!). This results in the "layered" defenses discussed earlier. And yes, all weps from 57MM and up are networked as "AAA", along with the Firecan.

 

The Firecan itself is set up as "Static-AAA", and given an availabilty value of "Very_Rare". This spreads them around, with an average of one per every 30-50 square kilometers.

 

What do you think about uploading your firecan and AAA as a "Networked AAA" mod?

[+Fubar512]

What do you think about uploading your firecan and AAA as a "Networked AAA" mod?

 

Mainly because the Firecan model is a WIP, and as such, it's not mine to give away. The existing model is still quite crude.

[+JSF_Aggie]

Fubar,

 

These are some flak-related changes made in OTC prior to me joining the team. I always assumed this is why OTC's flak was more effective, primarily DamageShrapnelFactor.

 

In AIRCRAFTOBJECT.INI:

 

[GameObjectEffect]

ObjectFireEffect=AircraftFireEffect

ObjectFireSound=PlaneFire

ObjectExplosionEffect=AircraftExplosionEffect

ObjectExplosionSound=SmallExplosion

ComponentDetachEffect=AircraftDetachComponentEffect

ComponentDetachSound=SmallExplosion

ComponentShrapnelCount=20

DamageShrapnelFactor=0.02 \\ was: 0.0002

MaxDamageShrapnelCount=12

 

[shrapnelDebris]

Velocity=8.0

VelocityDeviation=0.4

AngleRateFactor=1.0

DragFactor=0.05

LifeTime=3.0

ShrapnelChance=50

ShrapnelCount=20

SmokeEffect=

FireEffect=

 

In BULLETOBJECT.INI:

 

Several of the gun effects have:

 

ShrapnelChance=100

ShrapnelCount=250

[+Fubar512]

JSF, I believe that I'd done that several years ago, in my megapack...

[+JSF_Aggie]

JSF, I believe that I'd done that several years ago, in my megapack...

[Lt. James Cater]

Just out of a WOV mission and feel somewhat indifferent.

 

Had a flight of Intruders on an armed recce in the Than Hoa area and destroyed a truck convoy despite flak thick enough to walk on. After a while, it was no different than testing on the Range.

[+331Killerbee]

JSF, I believe that I'd done that several years ago, in my megapack...

 

It was......I put "it" in with the Sounds that way in OTC....I found the same thing You did JSFAggie.......512Fubar gave Me the OK way back when. It was just Cool to Me, so I added it. But People started complaining some about the Flak Noise being too loud....lol

[+331Killerbee]

Something to consider about Flak too. In WWII, Aircaft were slower and in tighter Formations. They flew at sometimes Pre-determined Altitudes. Easy for the Enemy to "Fix" their Guns on a certian Area or Flight Path. With Jets, One has more Speed to deal with. Not as tightly formed Formations. A major Factor being that the Ground Guns had to compensate for the Speed to "Lead" the Rounds. Radar help with this some. But Leading the Rounds is a difficult matter.

 

It's like shooting Skeet. The faster the Clay Pigeon, The more "Lead" You have to give it.......

[ezlead]

Killer:

That LtCol was exactly right.

By the way,do you remember his name? I flew for VMCJ-1 (mostly) during Linebacker I. VMCJ-2 had a detachment in Danang at the same time. I might remember him.

 

By the way,when you guys get your AAA working so that you get hosed almost everytime,then you do what Jug said about going in and out. (Low and fast in the weeds)

[+331Killerbee]

ezlead,

Not off the top of My Head. This was in the early 80's and Q-2 was still a part of MAG-14 then. I'll see if I can dig up his name. We were at a CAX at 29 Palms. We were sitting around the "Lifer Juice" Can, And the conversations were about how each Squadron used their Aircraft for their types of Missions. Hard to beleave it's been over 20 Years ago. I'll think on it and let You know......He was either the C.O. or X.O......I just can't remember the Name. But I can remember the Conversation.....

[+suhsjake]

Hey guys, I can't seem to find the AA Revenments objects. Do you guys might know where they are at?

[+swambast]

Check PM...thanks.

[malibu43]

OK, this question is slightly OT, but someone posted something regarding this in the last day or so, and I can't find that thread now.

 

Does anyone know what typical fusing distances were for the SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, etc... ? I was trying out the "flying telephone pole" mod that Fubar just uploaded, and had an SA-2 go streaking right past my canopy with not detonation. I started digging through the weapon data, and found fuse distances of 10 - 25 m. Someone in a thread somewhere posted that they changed their values to 100m. Anyone know what would be realistic?

[+Fubar512]

OK, this question is slightly OT, but someone posted something regarding this in the last day or so, and I can't find that thread now.

 

Does anyone know what typical fusing distances were for the SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, etc... ? I was trying out the "flying telephone pole" mod that Fubar just uploaded, and had an SA-2 go streaking right past my canopy with not detonation. I started digging through the weapon data, and found fuse distances of 10 - 25 m. Someone in a thread somewhere posted that they changed their values to 100m. Anyone know what would be realistic?

 

"The SA-2 is a medium to high altitude two stage surface to air missile dependent on radar command guidance and armed with either a 15kt nuclear or a 195kg fragmentation warhead, each with contact, proximity or command detonation capability. The booster is a solid rocket propellant motor fitted with four large fins. The second stage is equipped with a storable liquid propellant sustainer motor and three sets of fins, a large set of four is mounted in the mid section, a smaller set of power control fins is mounted at the base, and an even smaller set of fixed fins is mounted on the nose. The warhead is mounted in the second stage forward of the large fins. At medium and low altitude the kill radius is 65 meters and the blast radius is 100-120 meters, which compensates for the missile's 75 meter circle of accuracy. At high altitude the blast radius is 250 meters. "

[Lt. James Cater]

Decided to do a little experimenting last night.

 

I went to downloads and got the 1950s AA mod.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=5363

 

Followed the instructions except that i changed the years to allow me to fly certain aircraft.

 

Took a Thud and made a beeline to where i knew a Soviet airbase was at. Lots and lots of flak at altitude but no hits so i decided to make things as easy as possible for the gunners.

 

Despite making multiple passes in imitation of a clay pidgeon, i came out unscathed. I'll go back soon and try to see what i can find.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Lt. James Cater

[Lt. James Cater]

I finally got hit!

 

After making about 7 passes going lower and slower each time i finally got fatally damaged. Didn't list what got me on the log but i suspect it was the 57mm stuff. Damn things really spit out the fire now! That was the first time EVER i've even as gotten scratched by something other than the light stuff.

 

Still no joy with the 100mm, they're harmless. If anyone can think of something in the numbers, PM me and i'll try it out.

 

Anyways, back to work.

[malibu43]

Also did some more AAA and SAM tweaking on Sunday. I changed the fuse distances for the SA-2's to 75m, however, this resulted in missiles that should have been a direct hit detonating before they reached the jet and not doing any damage. So I set that all back to 25m.

 

I did notice, however, that the noise rejected and CM rejection values in the stock weapon data.ini are much higher for the SA-2's than they are after installing the MF weps pack. I increased those to match the stock values, and started getting downed by some SAM's.

 

The entire time I was trying to get hit by SAM's, I was really slow over some flak, and never got hit. I'm giving up on actually getting hit by flak at this point, and just leaving there for effect. I did double the particle lifetime for the flak cloud in flakeffect.ini, and got some nice lingering streaks of flak over target areas.

[Lt. James Cater]

For WOE i'm sure that only a lucky hit will get me but the mod will devastate AI aircraft. For WOV i'm going to try The changes in the link i provided above and see what happens.

 

Somewhere, somehow, there has to be a reasonable solution.

[jaeger_301]

i made some time ago a AAA enhancement where the flak is networked and the gunnery skills are improved, with medium and hard settings.

 

 

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WXLP610P

 

enjoy

 

 

 

jaeger

[Lt. James Cater]

Hey Jaeger,

 

I linked to your thread earlier. I have all the numbers down and am going to start on it after i get out of work. Only now can i figure on tackling WOV. (Comp finally running right)

[Canadair]

Also did some more AAA and SAM tweaking on Sunday. I changed the fuse distances for the SA-2's to 75m, however, this resulted in missiles that should have been a direct hit detonating before they reached the jet and not doing any damage. So I set that all back to 25m.

 

I did notice, however, that the noise rejected and CM rejection values in the stock weapon data.ini are much higher for the SA-2's than they are after installing the MF weps pack. I increased those to match the stock values, and started getting downed by some SAM's.

 

The entire time I was trying to get hit by SAM's, I was really slow over some flak, and never got hit. I'm giving up on actually getting hit by flak at this point, and just leaving there for effect. I did double the particle lifetime for the flak cloud in flakeffect.ini, and got some nice lingering streaks of flak over target areas.

 

I tried all the optimization included in this thread in WOV. In some cases the FLAK is really just for effect, despite the networking, (althoguh the firecan as static_AAA is a very good idea) the unrealistic "upping" of the warhead weight, and adding the "sharpnel" entries in the bulletobject. In other cases thoguh it is really nasty, and it really hurts. In campaign missions in some area I suffer a lot of attrition from AAA, and that was just with the warhead weight upping. My tests at the moment were limited, due to time, to the "going downtown" stock mission. I will report with further

also, I noticed :

 

[GunData046]

TypeName=85MM_KS12

FullName=85mm KS-12 Cannon ;646

Caliber=85.000000

ROF=15.000000

MuzzleVel=792.000000

AmmoWt=9.240001

WarheadWt=284.600006

Reliability=95.000000

Accuracy=65.000000

AddLight=TRUE

MaxLightRange=1200.000000

FireColor=0.500000,0.450000,0.320000

GunFireEffect=TankGunFireEffect <--------------------------------------------------please note

GunFireSound=AAA

EffectClassName=TankGunEffects

EffectTime=0.100000

TracerTexture=Tracer2.tga

TracerSize=0.200000

TracerDistFactor=0.002000

TracerLength=0.018000

MaxVisibleDist=4000.000000

MaxStreakVisibleDist=1000.000000

TimeFuzed=TRUE

 

Therefore

 

[TankGunEffects]

TracerEmitterName=

GroundHitEffectName=TankGunGroundHitEffect

GroundHitSoundName=SmallExplosion.wav

WaterHitEffectName=LargeRocketWaterHitEffect

WaterHitSoundName=

ObjectHitEffectName=TankGunObjectHitEffect

ObjectHitSoundName=SmallExplosion.wav

ArmorHitEffectName=TankGunObjectHitEffect

ArmorHitSoundName=

AirBurstEffectName=FlakEffect

AirBurstSoundName=SmallExplosion

ShrapnelChance=100 <---------------------needs to be added

ShrapnelCount=250 <---------------------needs to be added

 

On the other hand I wonder if those aren't just graphical effects thoguh. What do you think?

Edited April 7, 2009 by Canadair

[malibu43]

I tried all the optimization included in this thread in WOV. In some cases the FLAK is really just for effect, despite the networking, (althoguh the firecan as static_AAA is a very good idea) the unrealistic "upping" of the warhead weight, and adding the "sharpnel" entries in the bulletobject. In other cases thoguh it is really nasty, and it really hurts. In campaign missions in some area I suffer a lot of attrition from AAA, and that was just with the warhead weight upping. My tests at the moment were limited, due to time, to the "going downtown" stock mission. I will report with further

also, I noticed :

 

[GunData046]

TypeName=85MM_KS12

FullName=85mm KS-12 Cannon ;646

Caliber=85.000000

ROF=15.000000

MuzzleVel=792.000000

AmmoWt=9.240001

WarheadWt=284.600006

Reliability=95.000000

Accuracy=65.000000

AddLight=TRUE

MaxLightRange=1200.000000

FireColor=0.500000,0.450000,0.320000

GunFireEffect=TankGunFireEffect <--------------------------------------------------please note

GunFireSound=AAA

EffectClassName=TankGunEffects

EffectTime=0.100000

TracerTexture=Tracer2.tga

TracerSize=0.200000

TracerDistFactor=0.002000

TracerLength=0.018000

MaxVisibleDist=4000.000000

MaxStreakVisibleDist=1000.000000

TimeFuzed=TRUE

 

Therefore

 

[TankGunEffects]

TracerEmitterName=

GroundHitEffectName=TankGunGroundHitEffect

GroundHitSoundName=SmallExplosion.wav

WaterHitEffectName=LargeRocketWaterHitEffect

WaterHitSoundName=

ObjectHitEffectName=TankGunObjectHitEffect

ObjectHitSoundName=SmallExplosion.wav

ArmorHitEffectName=TankGunObjectHitEffect

ArmorHitSoundName=

AirBurstEffectName=FlakEffect

AirBurstSoundName=SmallExplosion

ShrapnelChance=100 <---------------------needs to be added

ShrapnelCount=250 <---------------------needs to be added

 

On the other hand I wonder if those aren't just graphical effects thoguh. What do you think?

 

I can echo your statement that it seams for the most part to be for effect. I also tried most of the things listed in this thread and still have not been hit by any flak (even while stalled @ 85 kts directly over ZSU-57's firing 20 round bursts at 120 rounds per minute).

 

I did add the lines to all the appropriate entries in bulletobject.ini, and no change.

 

For now, I'm OK with it being there for effect. SAM's and small caliber automatic fire still get me every once in a while. That'll have to be enough.

[+swambast]

Guys, just a comment here. The YAP2 developers definitely got the flak effects right! I don't have any insight into exactly what they did, but for the purchase price alone it more than provides at least for me the "flak immersion factor." When the flak guns start opening up on me, I literally have a sense of panic as I can watch them getting closer and closer especially if I do not perform evasive maneuvers. It just feels realistic, I have been downed by "YAP FLAK" often enough to put a habit into making "evasive tactics" part of every target run - and I think that is exactly what they set out to accomplish. Obviously you need to balance your investigation time vs. the YAP2 cost, but just another option to think about.

Edited April 7, 2009 by swambast

[+MigBuster]

Yeah even in YAP1 the flak was lethal and a bit of a shock - you cant ignore that!