Prop-Head Modding and 3d Discussion

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

Your right to Kevin some times new models are need but i thing only wend there some shape diferences but sometimes we might need to use placeholders until the proper model his made.

 

A prop-head forum whould be great thing to have ther it whould eazyer to make things like that naming convencion!

 

I use the exporter notes naming convesion for my models for the main parts like wings flaps etc.

 

 

Ps im sure that our ancient one:grandpa: cloud solve the diferent naming issues in the inis.

[zmatt 2]

Can you change the object mapping names with a hex editor or is that a bad idea?

[Shaolin 0]

Can you change the object mapping names with a hex editor or is that a bad idea?

 

I'm not sure, but wouldn't it be much simpler (and more save) to adjust the node names in the data.ini?

[Wrench 9,733]

No, nada, never. Once they're set and locked-in in MAX, they can't be changed. A node is a node is a node, unless it's your nose

 

If one attempts this, one would learn quite quickly that it don't work by the multitude of CTDs one would experience.

 

They are what they are, which makes Greg's work just that much more difficult.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+gregoryp 1]

Hi Guys, just want to say LoD's are not the enemy, they are your friend

 

Mathias, who is a god at visual models tied to teach me this. The package we did for FSX has far more detail than other FSX visual but because of the intellegent use of LoD's has a much higher frame rate than other FSX visual.

 

The physics are pretty simple. A low poly with say 4000 will always have 4000 no matter what the viewing distance. With intellegent LoD's the far visuals could have as low as 8. With a 100 aircraft formation that's 400,000 vs 8,000. That makes a big difference in frame rates. The MAW's special "Mother of all Missions" had 8 each of MAW's LoD aircraft (about 250 planes) all heading towards the same point. Now that was an insane dogfight! With MAW I've flow over the harbor and have a 100+ flak bursts and aircraft around me. It's pretty amazing. The guys that did MAW made maximum use of LoD's. They LoD's everything from planes to ships to houses to tanks to terrain features.

 

I think there is also some kind of compression on the textures that TK doesn't use (way outside my area of expertise here).

 

Anyway, in theory a good 12,000 poly fighter with LoD's will have much better framerates than a low poly version of the same aircraft. It's 2009, we really need to modernise things. Every visual you create should have Lod's. I've been told that the latest versions of max will do most of the work for you.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Wrench 9,733]

For those that don't know what he means by multiple lods of varying polygon count...the example below is for the stock BM-14

 

[LOD001]

Filename=bm-14-16.lod

Distance=100

 

[LOD002]

Filename=bm-14-16_lod002.lod

Distance=250

 

[LOD003]

Filename=bm-14-16_lod003.lod

Distance=500

 

[LOD004]

Filename=bm-14-16_lod004.lod

Distance=8000

 

and for the stock E Phantom:

 

[LOD001]

Filename=F-4E.lod

Distance=100

 

[LOD002]

Filename=F-4E_lod002.lod

Distance=250

 

[LOD003]

Filename=F-4E_lod003.lod

Distance=500

 

[LOD004]

Filename=F-4E_lod004.lod

Distance=1000

 

[LOD005]

Filename=F-4E_lod005.lod

Distance=10000

 

distance, as always in 3W games, is in meters. As you get closer, the "detail' gets higher; converserly, as you get farther away, it gets less. This has the side effect of imporving frame rates, especially with large formations, and LOTS of effects (like the aforementioned flak bursts), as less has to be 'drawn' on-screen, freeing up CPU and GPU cycles (or so I'm told!!)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[zmatt 2]

Ok, if we can't change the node names than can we make our own models and have the same texture mapping for compatibility?

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

Ok, if we can't change the node names than can we make our own models and have the same texture mapping for compatibility?

yes if you do the exact same mapping on your model.

[Spinners 15,984]

Oi Wrench! It's all your fault!

 

I downloaded your Martlet two days ago and I've enjoyed props so much since then that I've done a 'Middle East Mod' (using froggy's multiple install tip).

 

Even if props fly a bit quirky in SF2 (not that 'Ace Pilots' like me notice) I've had more fun than I ever did in IL-2!

Edited June 29, 2009 by Spinners

[Wrench 9,733]

 

And yet another joins The Dark Side....

 

click the attachment .... hope this works

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Baltika 84]

Oi Wrench! It's all your fault!

 

I downloaded your Martlet two days ago and I've enjoyed props so much since then that I've done a 'Middle East Mod' (using froggy's multiple install tip).

 

Even if props fly a bit quirky in SF2 (not that 'Ace Pilots' like me notice) I've had more fun than I ever did in IL-2!

 

 

Welcome aboard the TW prop-fest

 

If you haven't already, check out this interim fix for the old prop FMs:

 

http://avhistory.org/communityserver/forums/t/694.aspx

 

That will at least enable the AI to handle most planes without endlessly falling into unrecoverable spins. You can still push the envelope too far, but at least with that little fix in place you have an even chance of recovering from spins.

[zmatt 2]

The avhistory FMs are a major improvement but they aren't eprfect. The aircraft in general are more sluggish than in '06 and they still handle funny. For example the P-51 can't fly level. It always has slight down trim.

[WarlordATF 1]

The avhistory FMs are a major improvement but they aren't eprfect. The aircraft in general are more sluggish than in '06 and they still handle funny. For example the P-51 can't fly level. It always has slight down trim.

 

I think thats one of the drawbacks of not having a real trim adjustment. I saw a post about setting up your arrow keys as a trim function, i think i might try that for prop planes.

 

My question is does anyone know how to adjust the distance from waypoint 9 when you come out of warp? I use warp quite a bit to get in as many missions as possible during my playtime, but when i warp home it usually still takes 5 mins of flight before i can turn onto final and land.

 

I know i can manually adjust it by moving waypoints on the map preflight, but is there something in an .INI where i could make the distance closer to home? I would like to adjust it to something a little closer to FEs distance.

 

Otherwise, I am having a blast with the WWII planes in WOE 08. Heres a screen of a Mission i flew earlier in a FW 190, after the enemy aircraft were taken out we started picking off the AAA guns, Alot of FUN!!!

 

Edited June 30, 2009 by WarlordATF

[+Stary 2,427]

Quick question -where are the new AVHistory FMs available? Capun's? Here I found 51, 47 and Zeke only, are there others?

[WarlordATF 1]

Quick question -where are the new AVHistory FMs available? Capun's? Here I found 51, 47 and Zeke only, are there others?

 

As far as i know they only have the P-51D,P-47,Zero and Fw 190D available right now.

[+gregoryp 1]

The avhistory FMs are a major improvement but they aren't eprfect. The aircraft in general are more sluggish than in '06 and they still handle funny. For example the P-51 can't fly level. It always has slight down trim.

 

When TK said the vs Mach was not supported for many of the stability derivatives it hurt us a bit. I've normalized the stability data to 0.2 Mach.

 

Current (.175) aircraft available are through here and the other site are:

 

A6M5a

Bf-109G-10DC

F4U-4

FW-190D-9

Ki-43IIb

P-47M-1

P-51d-30

 

I think you'll find the latest (.175) are a step up from the others. Make sure you are in hard mode.

 

Since there is no trim they are pre-trimmed to fly level at their corner speed. If the nose drops you’re going to slow in combat. If the nose rises you are going too fast.

 

Open the AvH_US_P-51D-30a_FlightModel.ini file, I put lots of good data there for you pilots to memorize

Edited June 30, 2009 by Sarge714

[+gregoryp 1]

Here's the header from the AvHistory P-51D-30

 

// ==================================================================

// ============= AvHistory.org Flight Model Program =================

// ================== (Strike Fighters Version) =====================

// ==================================================================

//

// Name: P-51D-30 Mustang

// Mfg: North American

//

// Engine: Engine: Packard Merlin V-1650-7 engine

//

// HP vs Altitude:

// 1656 HP, Speed 375(326) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 0 ft

// 1750 HP, Speed 422(367) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 10000 ft

// 1300 HP, Speed 408(355) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 16700 ft

// 1218 HP, Speed 442(384) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 26000 ft

// 828 HP, Speed 410(356) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 34500 ft

// 719 HP, Speed 222(193) TAS mph(knts), Altitude 41900 ft

//

//

//

//

// Stall Speeds:

// 100 mph at 8441 lbs Empty Weight - Zero fuel, full ammo

// 105 mph at 9545 lbs Combat Weight - Full fuel, full ammo

// 132 mph at 15500 lbs Max Gross Weight

//

// Climb Rates (Sea Level):

//

// Power setting

// Weight 0.85% MIL WEP

// 8441 lbs 3317 4049 4203 fpm at 161 mph (IAS)

// 9545 lbs 2783 3431 3567 fpm at 171 mph (IAS)

// 15500 lbs 1128 1527 1611 fpm at 218 mph (IAS)

//

// Corner Speeds:

// 284 mph Aerodynamic pulling 8g

// 184 mph Pilot Strength

//

// Level Turn Performance (max aerodynamic) at Sea Level

//

// 13.9 dps 943 ft radius 2 g 60 deg Bank Angle 156 TAS mph

// 17 dps 839 ft radius 2.5 g 66.42 deg Bank Angle 170 TAS mph

// 19.5 dps 789 ft radius 3 g 70.53 deg Bank Angle 183 TAS mph

// 23.5 dps 742 ft radius 4 g 75.52 deg Bank Angle 207 TAS mph

// 26.9 dps 718 ft radius 5 g 78.46 deg Bank Angle 229 TAS mph

// 29.8 dps 702 ft radius 6 g 80.41 deg Bank Angle 249 TAS mph

// 32.6 dps 690 ft radius 7 g 81.79 deg Bank Angle 268 TAS mph

// 35.1 dps 681 ft radius 8 g 82.82 deg Bank Angle 284 TAS mph

// 37.5 dps 672 ft radius 9 g 83.62 deg Bank Angle 300 TAS mph

// 39.8 dps 665 ft radius 10 g 84.26 deg Bank Angle 315 TAS mph

//

// Roll Rates:

// 34 dps at 95 IAS mph

// 64 dps at 189 IAS mph

// 91 dps at 286 IAS mph

// 61 dps at 365 IAS mph

// 40 dps at 444 IAS mph

// 24 dps at 525 IAS mph

//

// ==================================================================

// Aerodynamic Coefficients

//

// Lift Slope = 5.3893 Wing

//

// CL = 0.0678 at zero deg

// Max CL = 1.4626 at 16.56 deg

//

// CD_0 = 0.0145

// CD_I = 0.1401 at 16.56 deg

//

// ==================================================================

// Stability derivatives normalized at Mach 0.2 and 2.0 deg AoA, CL at 2 deg = 0.2429

//

// Cm_adot = -5.6538

// Cm_q = -11.1093

// Cm_ih = -2.3315

//

// Cy_beta = -0.6009

// Cy_p = -0.0065

// Cy_r = 0.3629

//

// Cl_beta = -0.0252

// Cl_p = -0.4313

// Cl_r = 0.1253

//

// Cn_beta = 0.1579

// Cn_p = -0.0756

// Cn_r = -0.5068

//

// Cm_de = -1.6581

// Cl_de = 0.3233

//

// Cl_da = 0.1263

// Cn_da = -0.0008

//

// Cy_dr = 0.1877

// Cl_dr = -0.0003

// Cn_dr = -0.0968

//

// ==================================================================

// V4.00.175 Created 6/27/2009 10:16:37 AM

// ==================================================================

Edited June 30, 2009 by Sarge714

[Wrench 9,733]

While not exactly "prop-head", this IS era approiate.....

 

one of 2 NEW skins; the other is desert tan/green mottle for JG-27. This is one JG-1. BTW, it's for a 'production' version V3A (note the pylons and X-4s)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

While not exactly "prop-head", this IS era approiate.....

 

one of 2 NEW skins; the other is desert tan/green mottle for JG-27. This is one JG-1. BTW, it's for a 'production' version V3A (note the pylons and X-4s)

 

wrench

kevin stein

cool A/C Kevin

[Shaolin 0]

While not exactly "prop-head", this IS era approiate.....

 

one of 2 NEW skins; the other is desert tan/green mottle for JG-27. This is one JG-1. BTW, it's for a 'production' version V3A (note the pylons and X-4s)

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

My all-time favorite since SWOTL!

 

One of the (if not the) most beautiful planes ever!

[Wrench 9,733]

I have a very 'strange' range of aircraft I favor ... flying boats and flying wings top the list. Why??? I really don't know, except they are hellacool!!!

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+gregoryp 1]

While not exactly "prop-head", this IS era approiate.....

 

one of 2 NEW skins; the other is desert tan/green mottle for JG-27. This is one JG-1. BTW, it's for a 'production' version V3A (note the pylons and X-4s)

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

Stuff like this is what makes WW2 interesting!

 

I did a DATCOM FM of this. As a bomber interceptor its ok, but as a dogfighter it is a deathtrap. I had some firsts in the FS series and this was the first true flying wing (no invisiable tail like everyone else uses). I poured over all the tech data on this. Did you know its wings used wash in (most aircraft use wash out) to add to the yaw stability?

 

Wrench, any way to add a working yaw string to the forward windscreen? If you don't tap dance continously on the rudders and let the yaw exceed a certain angle, you will die.

 

Last triva, the planned follow on looks very similiar to a tailess F-117 basic shape.

[Wrench 9,733]

Unfortunately, I can't add the 'string'. And it uses a not-quite-right pit (even though it's the stock one that came with it from Pasko's own 163)

And it makes a LOT of use of 'dummy components' for the elevators, although the drag-rudders DO work quite well!

 

BUT...I did tweek the StallMoment= for the RAF Peregrine version of the post-war F-79 Manta (ok, basically, the same airplane, reskined for USAF, the reskinned AGAIN!! for RAF -and it looks like the Manta will be getting a small update, too...) Been flying it extensively in 08 WoE and SF2, and it really works SOOO much better. Although, I don't know if that trick will work in 06 level, but I'll be trying to test that today, as there's a small 'issue' on autopilot takeoffs (like climbing up to 10-30 meters, nosing down INTO the runway,and breaking off the gear!).

 

I take you have Myhra's "CloseUp" book on the Ho-229? There are some of those flight chart graphs in it.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[gbnavy61 1]

Gents, I missed the boat on all the prop stuff and am way behind on all the need to know items.

 

What's the stallmoment= tweak? I would really like my Corsairs, etc. to stop falling out of the sky.

[Wrench 9,733]

What it is physically, I don't have a clue!!! The math is so far above me....

But whatever it is, is seems to really help out these Early Birds in the 08 and above patch levels.

 

In Wolf's Corsairs (and undoubtedly my mods for them, as I just reused his data ini), somewhere in EACH wing call out, there's this statememnt:

 

StallMoment=0.05

 

btw, there's 4 of them in the F4Us, in each of the Wing/OuterWing sections of the data ini. Changing it to read

 

StallMoment=-0.50

 

seems to do something!!!. My adivce is to add the new line, and comment out the old...like this

 

//StallMoment=0.05

StallMoment=-0.50

 

that way, if it don't work, it's easy to restore.

 

Has anyone tested this fix at on 06 level install??? Just curious to see if it changes anything there as well

 

wrench

kevin stein