Freakin' SA-8's

[+malibu43 142]

Notice the availability is VERY_COMMON - so you could put it back to COMMON or RARE also.

 

That's funny. I thought I had changed it to very_rare already, but it was at common. Dropped it down to rare, and now things are much better.

 

Still getting my @$$ handed to me by ZSU's, migs, and SA-13's though!

[Vampyre 24]

Ehh I just jam the thing. Doing some Jammer testing and if you got a good jammer, you can stroll right up to it or pop it with a Mav. Though usually I think in those terms because I don't take wingman anymore on strike missions. CAS maybe or the rare CAP, but no no no.

 

Good idea EricJ... I decided to do nothing but SEAD so now I have to bring my jammers along.

 

Now all I have to do is stroll on in and pop them with an AGM-69.

 

SAM's are no problem now . It's amazing the difference a few electrons make when properly focused

Edited June 17, 2009 by Vampyre

[+EricJ 4,001]

Damn straight man, EA is a reality these days, and I apply that logic even in the sims. Not sure how a Spark Vark works against an SA-10.... but that's just something to check out..

[+EricJ 4,001]

Just be careful though, I've just flown a test mission, and SA-10.. I would say a good 20-23 miles before the SA-10 burns through on the Vark, and the SA-8 you can jam and he should miss. He had a solid lock and fired all four before I gave him a HARM in return.

[Vampyre 24]

Just be careful though, I've just flown a test mission, and SA-10.. I would say a good 20-23 miles before the SA-10 burns through on the Vark, and the SA-8 you can jam and he should miss. He had a solid lock and fired all four before I gave him a HARM in return.

 

The SA-10 will be dead before I get that close. I'll have to extend the availability of the AGM-69A until about 2011 though (rocket propellant cracks be damned). Nuclear warhead, MACH 3 with a 100 mile range... The SA-10's won't know what hit them.

[MigBuster 2,875]

Its a shame there is no way to implement a HTS - you just lock the HARM onto the target and fire - in F4 you can outrange the SA-10s with HARMS :)

Also was the AGM-45/78 just a point and shoot weapon? or could you lock that onto specific em sources?

[+EricJ 4,001]

The SA-10 will be dead before I get that close. I'll have to extend the availability of the AGM-69A until about 2011 though (rocket propellant cracks be damned). Nuclear warhead, MACH 3 with a 100 mile range... The SA-10's won't know what hit them.

 

Well... do what you gotta do

 

You can still outrange the SA-10 with a HARM shot, the trick it actually hitting the radar, which is setup for you to miss, but still it's a threat, but one that can be avoided if you are paying attention.

[Slartibartfast 153]

The SA-10 will be dead before I get that close. I'll have to extend the availability of the AGM-69A until about 2011 though (rocket propellant cracks be damned). Nuclear warhead, MACH 3 with a 100 mile range... The SA-10's won't know what hit them.

 

I prefer to play with my prey makes them feel like they have a chance...

[Vampyre 24]

Well... do what you gotta do

 

I will still use the tried and true tactics for dealing with SAM's and AAA. Its just fun to clobber half the map with nukes every once in a while. There is no kill quite like overkill.

[+EricJ 4,001]

Heheh the best defense is offense

[+Gepard 10,699]

HARM was a nice missile and easy to fool. In 1999 the Serbs used Microwaves (!) for this job and it worked perfectly. One of the HARM they sent so toward bulgarian capital Sofia.

Switch of the radar and switch on the microwave

 

 

 

BTW: the source of my statement about SA-8 anti jam capability are german military magazins from early 1990th "Wehrtechnik", "Soldat und Technik" and the book ""Die Landstreitkräfte der NVA".

Edited June 17, 2009 by Gepard

[Slartibartfast 153]

There was one Serb battery that enjoyed playing with Harms and most of the Harms missed so they let the RAF in with an Alarm and bang no Radar. This was down to the Alarm with its loiter ability the Serbs thought the missile had missed and the Alarm got the jump on them and went down the throat... nice and sneaky ninja style...

 

I know its Wiki but its the quickest source I have at present

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALARM

Edited June 17, 2009 by PACMAN

[MigBuster 2,875]

HARM was a nice missile and easy to fool. In 1999 the Serbs used Microwaves (!) for this job and it worked perfectly. One of the HARM they sent so toward bulgarian capital Sofia.

Switch of the radar and switch on the microwave

 

 

 

BTW: the source of my statement about SA-8 anti jam capability are german military magazins from early 1990th "Wehrtechnik", "Soldat und Technik" and the book ""Die Landstreitkräfte der NVA".

 

 

Guess nobody told the Iraqis

 

Every missile system is touted as anti jam / anti that / ECCCCCCM etc - until its used in combat theres no way to tell how good it was against the ECM of the time.

 

How many jets did the SA-8 account for and what ECM systems did they have? - is the question that cant be answered.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

I heard somebody say there's a different technique for going after ZSU-23 and ZU-23. So what is the technique? I'm getting roasted by those things! Granted, I'm often trying to strafe them after a fighter sweep. Is that out of the question? I've only ever survived while attacking with A-10's and Harriers with cluster bombs.

[MigBuster 2,875]

I heard somebody say there's a different technique for going after ZSU-23 and ZU-23. So what is the technique? I'm getting roasted by those things! Granted, I'm often trying to strafe them after a fighter sweep. Is that out of the question? I've only ever survived while attacking with A-10's and Harriers with cluster bombs.

 

Hitting them with Mavericks is easy - but if you have rockets or guns only try to stay out of range or dive from a high altitude if you can. Attacking any gun head on isn't such a good idea - you may get the gun before it gets you - its about 50/50 though!

 

 

I never attack ZSUs unless I have to - particularly the later ZSUs - of course the new AI is now ace at taking them out!

[Vampyre 24]

I heard somebody say there's a different technique for going after ZSU-23 and ZU-23. So what is the technique? I'm getting roasted by those things! Granted, I'm often trying to strafe them after a fighter sweep. Is that out of the question? I've only ever survived while attacking with A-10's and Harriers with cluster bombs.

 

There are two ways I use to defeat the ZSU-23 and ZU-23 gun systems. The first is to figure out the farthest effective range of your gun. I've gotten really good at long range gun shots. The second is a version of the old rope-a-dope which I only really use if I'm having an "off" day. It involves flying circles around the target gun system just within the range of his weapons keeping him at a 90 deg beam position until he runs out of ammunition. Beware of multiple gun systems in the area. It takes a while for them to run out and will get kind of boring after the first few orbits. It is more for a last ditch effort on SEAD missions where you have to take them out to complete the mission. If you don't have the ordnance to expend on them and they are not a priority target then I suggest flying over or around them.

[Stingray72 6]

Not sure if anyone found anything, but I just read "Palace Cobra", a book by Ed Rasimus, an F-105 and F-4 driver who flew over 250 combat missions over North vietnam. He outlines the details of the SA-8 pretty well in one section of the book. I am not sure what to compare it to because I am not that into the little ins and outs of of all this sort of stuff, more of a hobbyist. Hope it helps a little!!

 

~Tax

[+malibu43 142]

Not sure if anyone found anything, but I just read "Palace Cobra", a book by Ed Rasimus, an F-105 and F-4 driver who flew over 250 combat missions over North vietnam. He outlines the details of the SA-8 pretty well in one section of the book. I am not sure what to compare it to because I am not that into the little ins and outs of of all this sort of stuff, more of a hobbyist. Hope it helps a little!!

 

~Tax

 

I think you mean either the SA-2 or the SA-3...

[+Dave 2,319]

I just use a SRAM or a nuke ALCM. You guys are making this out to be such a big deal.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

Hmmm...I was hoping for method to use when nukes weren't available, hehe.

 

My most successful strafing method so far has been to approach the gun obliquely (with the gun in a 2 o'clock position from me) then I pop up, roll over and dive in a steep angle. My idea for this is that my vector is changing for two angles at once which should make it hard to get a sight picture for the gun.

 

Trouble is, I need a couple moments to line the gun up too. Sometimes I take too long and the gun fires just as I do.

Bummer!

[+Gepard 10,699]

The best methode against Flak and SAM is called in german "Alle zugleich" in english "All together". Which mean encircle the battery and strike from different directions at one time. But unfortunatly it will not work in game, because you can only direct your wingman to your designated target, not the entire wing.

[FastCargo 412]

Mavericks are your best friend when it comes to AAA (and SAMs for that matter).

 

FC

[ShrikeHawk 384]

Oh yeah, I loooove the Mavericks. Cluster bombs are fun too.

[+EricJ 4,001]

I heard somebody say there's a different technique for going after ZSU-23 and ZU-23. So what is the technique? I'm getting roasted by those things! Granted, I'm often trying to strafe them after a fighter sweep. Is that out of the question? I've only ever survived while attacking with A-10's and Harriers with cluster bombs.

 

As above, but most of the time I just pick them off for giggles. Don't take them lighly but the best thing to do is jink heavily. As with any sim, the bullets are aimed either by eye or by the Gun Dish on the Shilka. The more you maneuver, the harder it is for them to hit you, simply put. As for targeting... hit E until the ZSU is targeted, and hit F4 for padlock, and if it's the one you want, learn how to maneuver your a/c until you get within a few degrees (Mavs can sorta offboresight, but my EELs are great for that ) launch and pull away, and if you hit it, the view will return to center. If there's no SAM threat then go high and pick them off.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

Thanks guys. I have no trouble if I have Mavs. With a Harrier and rockets, I worked out a good attack profile that was reasonably safe if I attacked from Angels 4.

 

Thing is my mood for missions changes at the drop of a hat. So commonly, after a fighter sweep and a couple mig kills, I'm in the mood to go after some AAA. But in such a situation, I'm not armed for flak suppression (no Mavericks and no Rockeyes). So I'm hoping for a technique to get them with guns that's survivable. So far, it seems too risky without the proper tools. I'll keep trying.