column5 62 Posted July 21, 2009 Official: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_...ense_spending_9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheStig 38 Posted July 21, 2009 B I G M I S T A K E Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted July 21, 2009 very bad mistake and an extraordinarily short-sighted decision. I pray we never pay for this idiocy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheStig 38 Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) My guess is the next Administration will restart it, just like Reagan restarted the Bone Program after Carter axed it. Reality is, there are many in Congress that want this aircraft still. There must be some sort of political pandering and incentive for those who voted 'no' on this. Only time will tell as to when they will realize the true importance of this aircraft and the fact that it's cheaper in the long run to have F-22s than to continuously fix aging F-15s and F-16s rather than replacing them with Raptors and Lightnings. Edited July 21, 2009 by TheStig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
future_tuskegee_airman 13 Posted July 21, 2009 I just read this too and I was shocked! I mean stopping production at only 187 fighters...wheile the Soviets have numerous SU-27/30/35 family fighters plus newer developments of the Mig-29/35 (no offense to the Russians because I love thier fighters...I'm just concerned about protecting US skies); I think it's ridiculous! But at the same time I agree that the F-35 needs to be developed quicker and more funding needs to be directed towards that program. It really shouldn't be as behind schedule as it is right now. The Air Force seems to have had an over-abundance of funding on particularly the F-22 among other projects. It's time for the Air Force and Navy to get some attention too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheStig 38 Posted July 21, 2009 Apparently I am hearing that Obama "thanked" the Senate today and that this decision will "protect our troops." You have got to be ****-ing KIDDING ME. This guy needs to be caned for his stupidity! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted July 21, 2009 Well it's not like any politician would claim something they pushed for would "hurt the troops", would they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheStig 38 Posted July 21, 2009 Looks like Dodd and Chambliss aren't going to let the F-22 Program go down without a fight to the death. They have vowed to continue to press for more F-22s. I hope their resolve remains strong and convinces more people in Congress that the Raptor is crucial for our future Defense and the standard of air power and superiority for the United States. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) Actually, a while ago I got a chance to talk to some of the maintenance personell for the F-22 at Edwards and they don't talk too proudly about that aircraft. Infact, if I were to recall their attitude, it would have been disgust and I remember one of them saying that we're still better off with F-15s and F-16s and all the hype on the F-22 is bulls***. I asked how they can say that with the aircraft being so stealthy and having freaken powerfull engines. What they told me was kind of contrary to what I've heard about the aircraft. According to them, there are some serious issues with the aircraft that haven't been revealed to the public and that it's costing too much money to resolve and that the problems aren't getting fixed with the latest Raptors that have been recently built. I admit, I got a little defensive over it, but hey, they're the ones working on it and should know a bit more about it than I do. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're talking about. I know last year when I was working security for the Raptor at our air show, one of the hydraulic hatches flew off while it was doing a practice flight over Moreno Valley. They said that's a common problem and the hatch cost $25,000.00 to replace, not to mention that it compromises the stealth capabilities of the aircraft. I also noticed a hydraulic leak from the weapon bay doors as the aircraft was parked on the ramp. So who knows, maybe there are some legitimate reasons to stop production of this aircraft. I mean if the guys who work on it even say that we're better off with F-15s and F-16s, there's got to be something seriously wrong with this bird that we don't know about. All I know is that it's above my pay grade and security clearance to know. Edited July 21, 2009 by serverandenforcer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
column5 62 Posted July 21, 2009 Well it's not like any politician would claim something they pushed for would "hurt the troops", would they? Anything the current government says must be read backwards: help the troops = hinder the troops reduce health care costs = increase health care costs etc., etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
column5 62 Posted July 21, 2009 Actually, a while ago I got a chance to talk to some of the maintenance personell for the F-22 at Edwards and they don't talk too proudly about that aircraft. I have no doubt that it has its share of problems. All new aircraft do. FC made some good points about this in the previous F-22 thread. As far as hydraulic leaks go, my reading suggests that the F-14 began leaking when they filled the reservoir for the first time at the factory, and never stopped until they pumped it out for the last time at the bone yard! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheStig 38 Posted July 21, 2009 It could be worse. It could be an F-100C Super Sabre. :warning2: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mannie 21 Posted July 21, 2009 For all those who voted "Obama". You wanted change? you got it!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eraser_tr 29 Posted July 21, 2009 Another example of shortsightedness. What he apparently means by protecting our troops is instead spending the money on more direct costs for afghanistan, so its not stupidity, but a narrow view, the rationale makes sense, but we all disagree with it. I did read McCain was one of the sponsors of removing the F-22 funding, so regardless of how the election turned out, the same thing would have happened. Considering most of our deaths in afghanistan I've heard are simply due to crashes and accidents, the obviousness of our equipment needing replacement is easy to see. The F-22 is a necessary counter to countries with a real air power, like China. Reading about plans to get manufacturing back stateside, we may very well end up with a more hostile relationship with china. If we reclaim our manufacturing, their economy will collapse (but ours will be rescued, so be it) and China will likely try to retaliate in some form, most likely economically. But economic rivalries can very much progress into shooting. Still, you don't need as many of them as we used to need of even F-15s. A relatively small contingent of Raptors can clear the skies in a short period of time at the beginning of a conflict, while the rest of the aircraft can operate with impunity the rest of a conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted July 21, 2009 Sorry, EVERY gov't lies when it speaks. It doesn't matter what letter follows their name, they're lying. I would be happy if all 535 members of Congress, every high court judge, and the executive branch were replaced tomorrow by random people taken from the population. I guarantee things would get better, maybe a LOT better. Oh, and the bureaucracy must be thrown out. I don't care what forms you THINK are needed, they aren't. All your rules justify YOUR existence. The US gov't is as effective as Tylenol against ebola. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted July 21, 2009 As far as hydraulic leaks go, my reading suggests that the F-14 began leaking when they filled the reservoir for the first time at the factory, and never stopped until they pumped it out for the last time at the bone yard! Yeah, that seems to be quite true with most aircrafts. I know our KC-135s do the same thing with the engine nacelles if they get slightly over filled. However, I heard that the hydraulic fluid, running along the airframe of the aircraft, isn't good for the stealth coating for the F-22. But apparently, to name a few things, they're going through engine parts faster than what should be considered exceptable. But they did give a big emphasis on the "superiority" of the F-15s and F-16s on reliability with maintenance, saying that they're less likely to brake down. I heard some other mission operational issues with the F-22s that I thought was just rediculous. There's some kind of a software conflict issue with mission related equipment and aircraft functionality. Won't go into too much detail about this, but they said this problem has been addressed many times and keeps getting ignored due to the amount of funding that would be needed to resolve this. Again, this is according to the people who work on the aircraft, not my synopsis. Maybe they're just biased because the're Eagle and Falcon lovers. Who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted July 21, 2009 I know our KC-135s do the same thing with the engine nacelles if they get slightly over filled. What? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted July 21, 2009 What? The engines on the KC-135, they leak if if the maintenance crews top off the hydraulics in them a bit too much. I had to report fluid leaking from them almost a month ago. One of the maintenance guys says that occasionally happens when they over fill the hydraulics in them. I'm not an aircraft mechanic expert, so I'm going by what he said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted July 21, 2009 The hydraulic dump vents are underneath the wings, outboard of the #1 and #4 engines. One for each system (2 systems). When overserviced or the crew leaves the system pressurized prior to engine shutdown, they will piss fluid all over the place. Well, the question is what will happen to the money. Will it be spent as promised; to further and speed up the F-35 program? Or will it end up elsewhere, not helping anyone. If this gets drug out for a long time, the money won't go anywhere and we still lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted July 21, 2009 Well look at it this way: Currently, capatibilities of F-22 are not really needed, other aircrafts in the USAF/USN inventory can carry out any tasks required from them as history backs up even MORE than satisfactory I think we can all agree on that. It's quite obvious that not everything is exactly peachy with the plane, but never mind that, this baby can serve as an excellent stop-gap/testbed for saaaay F-42 Super Raptor I mean in a year or two PAK-FA will show up, and God know what kind of technologies will show up and it might be entirely possible that huge numbers of current Raptors may show as a burden instead of relief. This way you can test, adjust, repair and add your asses off with the current Raptors and when the time comes a new fighter that will shadow the competition may show up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,870 Posted July 21, 2009 shame to hear this - not only unmatched but a real F-15 successor in every way. I suppose there are still enough to deter other airforces - and as said im sure the R&D wont be in vain - this could just be the F-102 to the new F-106 (lets hope its manned though hey!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mannie 21 Posted July 21, 2009 The way I see it? America is fast losing its position as No1 great power! If that happens, we will soon see China up there making new rules to the game. And its gonna be a whole different ball game for the free world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted July 21, 2009 The way I see it? America is fast losing its position as No1 great power! If that happens, we will soon see China up there making new rules to the game. And its gonna be a whole different ball game for the free world. Yeah they will form a coalition with Martians and strike all major cities in the world on 4th of July, and then - only Will Smith can save us You do know that if one nuclear super power get's pi$$ed of at another we will all have penises growing out of our forheads? All 2 of us that survive the first day of war that is That is what MAD is for, Raptors or whatever don't serve as deterrence against major nuclear powers...although China is nowhere near Russia or USA considering nuclear arsenal so any kind of attack at either of those two would be a completely insane act of a lunatic... But scenario is ok for a video game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
