hurricane3 2 Posted July 23, 2009 Tailspin ,changing the OnGroundPitchAngle to 10.0 worked.Thankyou so much Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted July 23, 2009 If anyone knows a fix for the elevators that would be great :yes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 23, 2009 quack74: And what in particular do you see is wrong with the elevators (other than the plane climbs very slowly with the up elevator) ??? Panama Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 23, 2009 Check this link out: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_airco_DH4.html Panama Red.....Those numbers are what I see most often. I rember the US version had a cervice ceiling serveral thousand feet less than the Rolls. Something like 18000 to 19000 ft. Many sites list the ceiling of the VIII 22-23 thou. (I never fly that high)A lot of them recite the 143mph figure...maybe something in the mid-130s for the top of the line Rolls? Just tossing out ideas for discussion. I'll look for more info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 23, 2009 Tailspin ,changing the OnGroundPitchAngle to 10.0 worked.Thankyou so much No problem. Mine needed fixing too. I was trying to figure out what was happening with the planes exploding on the runway when I saw your post about your planes standing level on their wheels. Then I noticed that right after the game started the tail of the plane was dropping to the ground. That rang a bell...something about ground angle. Both problems solved. You actually pointed me in the right direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 23, 2009 Tailspin: Looking at my "British Aeroplanes 1914-1918", it gives the following info: 230hp Puma - 106 mph @ 6,500 ft 230 RAF IIIa - 122 mph @ SL 250hp Eagle III - 119 mph @ 3,000 ft 375hp Eagle VIII - 143 mph @ SL 400hp Liberty - 125 mph @ SL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Those all are very close to or match what I have seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+quack74 329 Posted July 24, 2009 quack74:And what in particular do you see is wrong with the elevators (other than the plane climbs very slowly with the up elevator) ??? Panama Red If I add up elevator slowly it seems ok and responsive. But when I give full up it loses function. The elevators show full up but they dont have any effect on the planes pitch. The plane will actually straighten out. It's not stalling. It happens even when the airspeed is high. It will do it in a steep bank. It cant just be me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Yes it could be just you. But not this time. Wonder how to fix that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Soooo....what do you guys think we need for engines for the DH4? Come on....speak up. Don't want to put any more work on Panama Red than necessary. I think definately the USAS Victory. As for the Rolls Royce engines and substitutes the guy in the link in my post above gives the clearest timeline (all I have for reference is the internet) but I don't see any references to the source of his info? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 quack74/Tailspin: I upped the response to the "up" elevators per your comments. I found out that it is going to take a little longer than I first anticipated to make all the different planes because upping the engine hp did not do the trick, I am having to adjust the 12 "drag" numbers to get the DH4 to fly the speed it was designed. It's not any harder, just takes longer having to adjust 12 numbers versus 1 number. Panama Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted July 24, 2009 Soooo....what do you guys think we need for engines for the DH4? Come on....speak up.... Okay TS, here's my (as you American's say) "two cents worth": The subject of DH4 engine installations is bewildering to say the least, but I've looked through the following references: 'Airco DH4' (Windsock Datafile Special)...By J.M. Bruce. 'British Aeroplanes 1914-1918'...By J.M. Bruce. 'The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps'...By J.M. Bruce. 'Airco, the Aircraft Manufacturing Company'...By Mick Davis. 'DeHavilland DH-4, From Flaming Coffin to Living Legend'...By Walter J. Boyne. Most of the early DH4's were powered by the 250hp Eagle (I-IV), and had an average top speed of 113mph, at 10,000ft. Although deliveries began in January 1917, by the end of March, only 50 odd had been delivered. So I would use March 1917 as the 'ServiceStartDate' in the DATA.INI file. The 375hp Eagle VIII version, which saw very limited use (especially by the RFC), appeared around August 1918. It had a top speed of 126mph at 10,000ft. The 400hp Liberty engined version was also introduced in August 1918. It had an average top speed of 117mph at 10.000ft. I think that'll do it...Any more versions would be overkill, IMHO. Hope that helps. Bucky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Found some production numbers for the RR Eagles. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Eagle Eagle I (Rolls-Royce 250 hp Mk I) (1915), 225 hp, 104 engines produced in both left and right hand tractor versions. Eagle II (Rolls-Royce 250 hp Mk II) (1916), 250 hp, 36 built at Derby. Eagle III (Rolls-Royce 250 hp Mk III) (1917-1927), 250 hp, increased compression ratio (4.9:1), strengthened pistons. 110 built at Derby. Eagle IV (Rolls-Royce 250 hp Mk IV) (1916-17), 270/286 hp, 36 built at Derby. Eagle V (Rolls-Royce 275 hp Mk I) (1916-17), 275 hp, high-lift camshaft, 100 built at Derby. Eagle VI (Rolls-Royce 275 hp Mk II) (1917), 275 hp, first use of twin spark plugs, 300 built at Derby. Eagle VII (Rolls-Royce 275 hp Mk III) (1917-18), 275 hp, 200 built at Derby. Eagle VIII (1917-1922), 300 hp, extensive modifications, 3,302 built at Derby. According to these figures the 275hp versions (Eagle V-VII) were more common (600 vs. 182). Also worth noting since RR refused to contract out its engine production these numbers account for only around half of the DH 4s delivered and all these engines were not used in the DH 4 exclusively. FWIW, I think once Panama Red gets one FM up to speed it will be easy enough for anyone to change a couple of numbers and get the intended performance. With that in mind I would build the fastest first to get the drag numbers worked out. Then it would be a simple matter of reducing the max speed at SL number in the data.ini and changing HP in the engine section. No? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 Tailspin: That is a good idea to start with the fastest and work down. It was sort of frustrating last night when I upped the hp and there was ZERO increase in speed. I then knew that I was going to have to do it the hard way and dig into why it was resisting me ("ah, but ve hav 'our vays to make you comply"). I was able to get a true 106 mph and 117 mph version, but with too high a hp number . Once I reduce the drag, I can then put the real hp numbers back into the DH4_data.ini file. In case you did not know, the provided DH4_data.ini only had 98 mph max, so it is no wonder you were run down by those fighters. Panama Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Don't forget to set the max speed @ SL in the data to the desired number. IIRC that also affects player aircraft. I, and everyone else I'm sure, appreciate you taking this on, BTW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 I always set then when I adjust the hp, but that had no effect last night till I reduced the drag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 I figured you knew that but didn't want to take if for granted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 First of all, many many thanks to all who participated in this excellent new aicraft model (looking forward to the DH9 now - wonder if the FE flight model is smart enough to factor in frequent random engine failures?) Just one teensy observation though. When I fly the DH4 and look "behind" me - the gunner's cockpit is empty. Is there a simple fix for this? (BTW I have adjusted the left & right pilot view yaw limits in the *data.ini file to 190 degrees either way - I always like to see what's on my tail). Mike Hey Mike. I don't have my view slewing quite as far back as 180 so I can't see the gunner either. In the "check six" view I can see the gun, the gunners hands and parts of his arms. The rest is clipped. Not sure if there is a fix for this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 Tailspin: It never hurts to remind, especially as we all get "older". Panama Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 Amen to that. BTW...wasn't there a Panama Red involved with Red Baron? That wouldn't be you, would it? Anyway, I've been fiddling with the elevator response. It seems that if your speed is higher the elevator works like it should. To me it acts like a very quick stall. Pull back hard at slower speeds you slow down and lose lift very quickly and the aircraft stops responding to elevator input. Do you suppose this could be related to the high drag factor thats affecting top speed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 The same RB3D Panama Red (which is why I like "tinkering" with FM's ). The drag that I'm talking about is the "lift/drag" coefficient that each part of the wings and fuselage has in the formulas. I'm having to reduce it to allow the plane to achieve it's true rated speed (without tinkering with the hp/empty weight numbers) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panama Red 22 Posted July 24, 2009 Tailspin: Making good progress. After removing ALL the "lift/drag" from the DH-4, I have the Eagle VIII 375hp up to 131 mph @SL (the best we are going to get and ties in to SB's mph @ 10,000 ft), now I am working back down. Panama Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted July 24, 2009 The same RB3D Panama Red (which is why I like "tinkering" with FM's ). The drag that I'm talking about is the "lift/drag" coefficient that each part of the wings and fuselage has in the formulas. I'm having to reduce it to allow the plane to achieve it's true rated speed (without tinkering with the hp/empty weight numbers) Cool. Can't believe I just now made the connection. I wasn't a regular RB3D guy but I did spend some time downloading most of the mods and trying them out. I do recall some of your work FM/DM work. Good stuff. Glad you're interested in First Eagles. I enjoy FE about as much as any flightsim I've tried...including RB3D and EAW back in the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Dora 171 Posted July 25, 2009 First of all, many many thanks to all who participated in this excellent new aicraft model (looking forward to the DH9 now - wonder if the FE flight model is smart enough to factor in frequent random engine failures?) Just one teensy observation though. When I fly the DH4 and look "behind" me - the gunner's cockpit is empty. Is there a simple fix for this? (BTW I have adjusted the left & right pilot view yaw limits in the *data.ini file to 190 degrees either way - I always like to see what's on my tail). Mike Fixed it. In the [Fuselage] section of the DH4_DATA file, I just changed ShowFromCockpit= from "FALSE" to "TRUE". Gunner now shows up. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southside Bucky 1 Posted July 25, 2009 Nice as this model now looks with Quack's excellent skins, unfortunately, it's all but unusable for me due to the frame rates, which with any more than one plane in my flight, appear to be something in the region of one frame every ten seconds! D'you reckon there's anything we can do about this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
