SA-2s

[MaverickMike 10]

I was just flying through a few missions in SF2:Vietnam campaign (rolling thunder 65) and ive come to notice something about the sa2s. Whenever they get me locked up they let off a sam and I watch as it goes up into the air, flies in my general direction and as i perform a slight turn or jink in any direction the missile misses. Where the sa-2s in these early days that easy to defeat? Don't get me wrong it makes for a hair raising flight when im going 'downtown' especially with the AAA but i feel the sams not to be much of a threat at the moment. Another thing is that the Sa2 is the only sam ive come across. Was this the only SAM in service with the NVA at the time?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Viper6 3]

I was just flying through a few missions in SF2:Vietnam campaign (rolling thunder 65) and ive come to notice something about the sa2s. Whenever they get me locked up they let off a sam and I watch as it goes up into the air, flies in my general direction and as i perform a slight turn or jink in any direction the missile misses. Where the sa-2s in these early days that easy to defeat? Don't get me wrong it makes for a hair raising flight when im going 'downtown' especially with the AAA but i feel the sams not to be much of a threat at the moment. Another thing is that the Sa2 is the only sam ive come across. Was this the only SAM in service with the NVA at the time?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

I believe so. In the first WOV I did not see any SAM's til '67.

[+daddyairplanes 10,257]

though maybe not that easy to defeat SA-2's could be defeated through last minute manuevers. sams were such a big problem early on because 1) most fighters at the time did not carry rwr tuned to the sams if at all. the way most were detected at first was to actually see the sam lifting off.2) the sam threat forced strike packages down low into range of AAA which is what shot down most planes for the duration of the war. APR-25, jamming pods and Wild Weasel/Iron hand were all devised to counter the SAM threat

[Gr.Viper 131]

14 SA-2s will miss, the 15th won't leave you a chance to eject

Their accuracy wasn't that great. I've seen figures that one out of 10 or out of 16 would hit, one out of 33 when ECM arrived, then 1/50, and finally one out of 100 when jamming became widespread.

SA-2 is a 2-stage missile which uses an extra booster stage to gain speed and altitude. They don't guide it while the booster burns.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

In WOV, SAMs can really ruin your day if you're not careful.

 

Personally, THE most important factor when route planning is where the SAM sites are. Remember, the majority of sites have overlapping coverage and the farther into RP 5 and 6 you go the more likely of multiple site launches. The SAM you dodge will not be the one that gets you and the more you manuver the lower and slower you get.

 

Which leads us to the next SAM related threat...Triple A. Laugh now, but when some 14.5 or 23mm gun shoots up your clay pigeon target aircraft because too much energy was wasted avoiding SAM, you'll learn to have a healthy respect for the flak gomers and also to re-think SAM.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Lt. James Cater

[+EricJ 4,254]

That's just a matter of lack of situational awareness. I agree, you don't pay attention and you'll get chopped up. However, if you do pay attention, you can pretty much not worry about it. Only when you get towards the modern spectrum of SAMs you can get worried. If your RWR works, and you're flying in 'Nam during the good ol' days, then just look at the lines, pretty easy to interpret.

[Gr.Viper 131]

That's the best thing about most missiles in TW sims. They miss, they aren't difficult to dodge and avoid, but at the same time ignoring them completely is asking for big trouble. Aside from SA-8. That's big trouble at any time.

 

And, damn, you provoked me http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6763

[MaverickMike 10]

Im not saying that im ignoring them. Just that they dont have much significance. If my RWR is saying im locked up and someone shouts 'SAM Launch' then I do try and break lock and find the SAM thats headed my way. I usually find myself heading into a playground of AAA by then and that is definately not a good day out.

 

Mike

[Lt. James Cater 62]

If you are alone, all fine and dandy.

 

If you are not you have to think of your fellows. To get your people in and out of a high threat area unscathed is sometimes of more importance than hitting the target itself. I know of one ocasion where a SAM missed me by so close that i swear went right over my left wing. While i was snickering at the miss the SAM kept on going and blew away my wingman who was about a mile back and up behind me.

 

I also remember another time where we were egressing and at a point across the Red that i thought was safe for us. Damned if a SAM didn't thread the needle from 6 O'clock through the two following flights to get my #4 man.

 

Hell, in WOE a few days ago i lost the best man in our squadron to a SA2 because i stupidly decided to change the intitial point in at the spur of the moment and SAM came up and got him not three minutes after we changed course. Personally, i never received any kind of warning on the RHAW. We had ECM and i ordered him to break but he still got it.

[MigBuster 2,884]

You should have noticed the SAMs have different models - the SA-2B and C were always easy to avoid in WOV - but the SA-2F was a bit of a death ray unless you used your "super chaff".

 

It looks like the SA-2F has been toned down (and the chaff) since then but you still need to be careful with the F models.

 

There is an SA-2E now by default although havnt had much dealings with that.

 

From what some Pilots say from that era they were relatively to beat "if you saw them coming" - and quite a few different jamming methods were used in that period which ultimately made them fairly ineffective.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Some people may call this cheating - others will call it a handy tip, but anyway;

Sometimes when my RWR starts screaming 'lock!' at me and when I get a missile launch warning I wait a second or so, then pause the game, press F6 and I have a three dimensional look around for the tell-tale SAM trail. This gives me the exact location of the launch and I'll know exactly which way to manoeuvre after I resume the game.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Remember, in this thread it's about SAMs you can see coming.

 

In a info overload type situation SAM launches behind your 3-9 line can wreak havoc. Personally, i've gotten good enough at reading screens to be able to get a rough idea of an area's SAM threat potential enough for my flight to get in and out unharmed.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Remember, in this thread it's about SAMs you can see coming.

 

In a info overload type situation SAM launches behind your 3-9 line can wreak havoc. Personally, i've gotten good enough at reading screens to be able to get a rough idea of an area's SAM threat potential enough for my flight to get in and out unharmed.

 

 

So whenever I do this I'm cheating then. Don't worry though - I'm not always too lazy to check! I might do that from time time if I've got no RWR display and audio warnings only - as in the case of the A-4E_65

[+malibu43 142]

Eh... I just use the 'R' key when I get a SAM launch call. I know it's not "realistic", but I figure that makes up for the fact that there are a bunch of guys calling out "SAM launch!" without any indication of who they are, who they're talking too, where it's coming from, or where it's heading.

 

PS - I know that did happen that way in real life sometimes, but hopefully not as much as it does in game...