That "other WW1 flight sim"

[themightysrc 5]

I have to agree with SvK in his assessment of ROF, even though my own tenure was a mere 72 hours.

 

There are, however, deeper problems with ROF which are rooted in the authenticity that is touted as its main virtue.

 

In essence, flying in ROF is quite demanding - I have no problem with that, as it is meant to be a true flight sim, and therefore, one assumes, is meant to be both complicated and demanding of the end user. I think that most people would agree that aircraft management in ROF is more complicated than OFF (although I do cheat and use auto-mixture, which is, I know, naughty...), however it also strives to be a mass market game, and from user reactions that I've read elsewhere, this level of complication, taken along with the various other problems with the game, hasn't exactly endeared it to the market.

 

Certainly, when casual gamers (ie, not the sort of fanatics you find here and at SimHQ) start saying that all it's got going for it is that it's pretty, then NeoQB are pretty unlikely to convert the initial sale into subsequent aircraft add-on sales. That's compounded to some degree by the rather defensive and petulant attitudes sometimes seen on SimHQ, for example. Criticisms are generally met with denial and/or accusations that ROF is simply the One True Way, waiting for a little more polish. Certainly, I've seen multiple examples of ad hominem arguments that if such and such a body doesn't like ROF, for whatever reasons, then they're clearly not a flight sim enthusiast, and should return to playing simpler games (as if ROF wasn't a game).

 

This is simply sticking one's head in the sand. The game is fairly flawed, and one of the reasons why I've backed away from purchasing it (apart from those given above and my crap internet link on my games PC) is that I simply do not expect NeoQB to still be in existence in a couple of years time, regardless of whether or not they've sorted out the game to my satisfaction. That, and the DRM currently in place, would ensure that I had bought a very nice looking drinks coaster and nothing else.

 

Whilst fans (or perhaps fanbois) of ROF sing its praises and deny the vital need to change or improve various areas of ROF, then there is no real incentive for NeoQB to improve the game and make it more polished and complete. Why should they if a cadre of diehards buys anything and everything they're offered? Unless the ROF community makes a stand and tells NeoQB that they will not countenance another release/bugfix unless it contains at least one of the missing areas - DF for example - and refuse to buy any more add on planes, then change, if it occurs at all, will be glacially slow and unsatisfactory, and that can hardly be a great ad for the product.

 

My 2d.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I was just out of internet action for 30+ hours. Something went bad in the broadband provider system. It is afterall -20F. here this weekend. Anyway, I was able to enjoy my time of no tv and internet by flying OFF.

 

$20?, seems to have all that is currently available by download I'ld be looking at $100 and then I would be campaigning in OFF. Maybe when times were better, but not now. I am curious but I am extremely happy with what I have.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

You are right RoF has its own game engine, I think he is confused to the Canvas Knights a free WW1 ad-on game based on the IL2-1946 engine which is still a good game engine. All info on Canvas Knights ! 

 

 

It is still to released in summer2010 I think and the planes have a comic book look, more a less transformed RB3d planes, this ad-on could have a lot of potential to a higher level like OFF1 to OFF2 to OFF3, so who knows. 

 

     

 

Yes, im looking forward to seeing what that is like!..They seem a keen bunch of guys, much in the mould of the OFF chaps!...it will be interesting

(the question for me is.. "Will I get to fly a Snipe in BHaH Before the release of Canvas Knights)...which has a Snipe listed as in it!

Edited January 3, 2010 by UK_Widowmaker

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

the record option RoF is AMAZING!

[SGCSG1 0]

With the DRM that comes with that.......... there's not a price low enough to get me to buy it.

 

 

Amen, brother. You couldn't give me a game that requires single-player authentication multiple times when playing single-player. And it decides when to update your installation, not you? Their business model is FUBAR.

[Dutch_P47M 9]

Like OFF3, RoF is a great game, now Pat Wilsons RoF-Campaign manager is released. As a WW1 flysim fan you should have them both (and IL2-CK in 2012???) Keep in your mind, that even you have only the 4 out of the box planes, the additional planes are still in the game, it is only you can not fly them by your self.    

 

But I think it is simple inhere: if you have a internet from the stone age or a moderate PC then do not even think about RoF. In my opinion RoF is only a good runner on a Quadcore i7 (or maybe a i5) and the Vcard should be something like a GTX260 or a HD4870-1Gb to start at.   

 

I'm running RoF on a dualboot HD (500Gb fastest HD below $100,-- according to Tomshardware) with XP32bit (64bit OS is slower on 32bit games) this OS is mean & lean, did all the speed tweaking, removed all the not needed software/services and cleaned-up the registry, but still I'm monitoring that my system is running to the CPU limit when all is set to the max. this game is demanding a lot of CPU multicore power.   

 

CPU AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ OC to 3.5Ghz

 

4gb Crusial Ballistix DDR2-800mhz 5-4-4-15

 

Sapphire 4890-1Gb VapporX

 

 

[Siggi 10]

The equation for me is quite simple and pertains to depth. OFF is deep enough to swim in; RoF is a puddle.

[zoomzoom 2]

And a puddle that you have to go through a Russian Server to swim in at that.

 

ZZ.

 

By the way, ROFL is now a coaster, and a $40.00 one at that, beside the machine where I play OFF. It reminds me to be more carefull before I buy in the future. Does keep me-tea from marring the finish though.

[Siggi 10]

In my opinion, ROF's greatest problem is that it's company will be gone long before all of ROF's myriad and substantial issues are sorted. Big main-line companies with deep pockets dump games with fewer issues, so I cannot see how ROF will manage. Once the revenue-stream dries up it'll be goodnight Irene.

[ConradB 0]

You are right RoF has its own game engine, I think he is confused to the Canvas Knights a free WW1 ad-on game based on the IL2-1946 engine which is still a good game engine. All info on Canvas Knights !

 

 

It is still to released in summer2010 I think and the planes have a comic book look, more a less transformed RB3d planes, this ad-on could have a lot of potential to a higher level like OFF1 to OFF2 to OFF3, so who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just took a look at it. Although the graphics look dated, if it has a decent campaign, and FM along the lines of OFF, and RB3D, I would buy it. The gameplay in more ways is more important than pretty pictures and eyecandy.

 

ROF from what I've seen is a good idea in principle, but the requirements to have internet access to play a single player game is rediculous. And if it has that many quirks, then the requirement they have is really out there.

 

I have watched it from the time it was first announced, but since like IL2 it is geared more towards online play, I don't really want to spend anything on it.

 

That's what I always appreciated about games like RB3d, and OFF, is they catered to both. For those who like offline play, there is a great campaign, and OFF's has developed nicely with each major release, even if a few corners need honing with a mini-patch.

 

The other thing I really appreciate about OFF, is the team was honest from the start, in that the individual was not misled into thinking they were getting a complete game out of the shoot. It is realized that it gets better with each Phase that is released. So you know from the get go, that things are compensated for, and will be addressed in the future. It doesn't get any better than that.

[appraiserfl 0]

In my opinion, ROF's greatest problem is that it's company will be gone long before all of ROF's myriad and substantial issues are sorted. Big main-line companies with deep pockets dump games with fewer issues, so I cannot see how ROF will manage. Once the revenue-stream dries up it'll be goodnight Irene.

 

People never cease to amaze me how narrow minded they can be. I stated earlier that a video game forum for a specific game is not the place to discuss another game, especially if the other game is a competing product because you get all kinds of narrow minded crap.

 

The fact of the matter is ROF kills OFF graphically (my God man I can see the valve lifters working and glistening in the dynamic sun light!), the replay feature of ROF is fantastic and ROF also seems to be much more realistic in terms of actual battle and the immersive feeling of "being there." However, I enjoy both games for what they are and I do not dwell on what they are not because in the 30 plus years that I have been playing video games I have yet to find the perfect game.

 

The existance of ROF only encourages OFF to become better and more complete and vice versa. To wish or obsess over the ruin of another companies product is the stupidest thing one can do, unless you compete against that company. But if you are just a lowly consumer than you should never hope for only one cat in the game as that breeds laziness and a subpar product.

Edited January 4, 2010 by appraiserfl

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

appraiserfl, I didn't read that anyone is wishing for the company to fail, only that it may well be likely to given the current state of it's primary product. If they are in it for the money then they will drop a non-profitable, troublesome product without giving it another thought. We are really quite spoiled here at OFF because the devs seem to be in it more for the wish of just doing it than actually making money. That sort of approach creates a scenario whereby support and development will continue even though no profits are being generated. Not a smart business model but a super approach if you want to push a sim as far as it can go. Also, I am all for competition as it nearly always improves products in the marketplace.

 

.

[zoomzoom 2]

Agree with you on the "competition breeds a better product" appraiser. No doubt. Thats why, however, the rest of your statement simply falls apart. It's just what we are doing here, expressing honest opinions (and I have seen little or no narrowmindedness) that causes this betterment to occur. Like many, I was hoping for a great outcome from this product (ROFL) as well, but the fact that we are expressing here is that it simply falls short. It doesn't "suck-on-ice or anything, sure its got some eyecandy, if you love rockerarms and all and they are your biggest thing. But the rest of us really like agame that plays well on many platforms, is immersive, has depth as well as expandability, and that you don't need big brother looking over your shoulder in order to play a simple one player round. Sorry....due to bad decision making ROFL has had its arse kicked. And as Siggi stated, the future due to these bad decisions, seems a dire one indeed.

 

ZZ.

 

(It's a pity really)

Edited January 4, 2010 by zoomzoom

[appraiserfl 0]

Agree with you on the "competition breeds a better product" appraiser. No doubt. Thats why, however, the rest of your statement simply falls apart. It's just what we are doing here, expressing honest opinions (and I have seen little or no narrowmindedness) that causes this betterment to occur. Like many, I was hoping for a great outcome from this product (ROFL) as well, but the fact that we are expressing here is that it simply falls short. It doesn't "suck-on-ice or anything, sure its got some eyecandy, if you love rockerarms and all and they are your biggest thing. But the rest of us really like agame that plays well on many platforms, is immersive, has depth as well as expandability, and that you don't need big brother looking over your shoulder in order to play a simple one player round. Sorry....due to bad decision making ROFL has had its arse kicked. And as Siggi stated, the future due to these bad decisions, seems a dire one indeed.

 

ZZ.

 

(It's a pity really)

 

I can understand and respect the decision to pass based on the Draconian DRM, but for only $20 I wont listen to the complainers saying that ROF is not complete because that is a bargain price for what you do in fact get. I seem to be playing devils advocate here, when I do in fact prefer OFF. However, we could compose a huge list of everything that is missing from OFF and I DO MEAN A HUGE LIST, but why bother? As it is OFF is excellent and only getting better by the day. But OFF has been in development for what, five years now, whereas ROF has only been out for six months. While the threat of competition may not be a driving force for the OFF developers because they "Do it for the love," and not the money, the fact is I really like their style and wish to see them proceed with a better game engine based on their ever growing user base and maybe one day they can do it for the money and retire in paradise while we get to relive WWI fantasies.

 

And yes I love seeing those valve lifters work, at first I thought my graphics drivers were buggy and then I took a closer look (thank you track ir) and was pleasantly surprised. I love seeing the recoil, I love seeing the bullets feed into the guns, I love seeing the spent shells falling to earth, I love seeing the dead enemy slumped in their cockpit on flames, I fawking love the detail and want more, I WANNA SMELL THE LEATHER AND CORDITE MAN! Who doesn't want more eyecandy? Why must eyecandy be sacraficed for depth? Why can't we have it all? First developer to do that gets more of my green!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, with the sheer enormity of OFF...the fact you can fly SO many aeroplanes, in SO many situations..I really cannot see why anyone would want to log onto a server in queerland or wherever, and fly 4 planes!...but hey!..thats just MHO

[themightysrc 5]

"I can understand and respect the decision to pass based on the Draconian DRM, but for only $20 I wont listen to the complainers saying that ROF is not complete because that is a bargain price for what you do in fact get."

 

Well, the DRM is a great disincentive for me, as I've said, but I should also point out that I'd need a brand new PC, which is rather unlikely unless I come up on the National Lottery. For me, the ultimate killer is the lack of a dynamic and in depth campaign. OFF and RB3D have it, so I own both (although I don't play RB any more). FE and ROF don't have it, so I don't play FE any longer, and probably won't buy ROF with such an omission. Eye candy is nice, but essentially an immersive campaign is the theatre of the mind, and no amount of graphic splendour can compensate for that.

 

I remain on the fence.

[zoomzoom 2]

"And yes I love seeing those valve lifters work, at first I thought my graphics drivers were buggy and then I took a closer look (thank you track ir) and was pleasantly surprised. I love seeing the recoil, I love seeing the bullets feed into the guns, I love seeing the spent shells falling to earth, I love seeing the dead enemy slumped in their cockpit on flames, I fawking love the detail and want more, I WANNA SMELL THE LEATHER AND CORDITE MAN! Who doesn't want more eyecandy? Why must eyecandy be sacraficed for depth? Why can't we have it all? First developer to do that gets more of my green! "

 

Ok.....I can't argue with that. lol

 

ZZ.

 

PS....but I wan't it all, and at a zero FPS hit......ummm, and to win the lottery while we're at it!!!!

Edited January 4, 2010 by zoomzoom

[Siggi 10]

I can understand and respect the decision to pass based on the Draconian DRM, but for only $20 I wont listen to the complainers saying that ROF is not complete because that is a bargain price for what you do in fact get. I seem to be playing devils advocate here, when I do in fact prefer OFF. However, we could compose a huge list of everything that is missing from OFF and I DO MEAN A HUGE LIST, but why bother? As it is OFF is excellent and only getting better by the day. But OFF has been in development for what, five years now, whereas ROF has only been out for six months. While the threat of competition may not be a driving force for the OFF developers because they "Do it for the love," and not the money, the fact is I really like their style and wish to see them proceed with a better game engine based on their ever growing user base and maybe one day they can do it for the money and retire in paradise while we get to relive WWI fantasies.

 

And yes I love seeing those valve lifters work, at first I thought my graphics drivers were buggy and then I took a closer look (thank you track ir) and was pleasantly surprised. I love seeing the recoil, I love seeing the bullets feed into the guns, I love seeing the spent shells falling to earth, I love seeing the dead enemy slumped in their cockpit on flames, I fawking love the detail and want more, I WANNA SMELL THE LEATHER AND CORDITE MAN! Who doesn't want more eyecandy? Why must eyecandy be sacraficed for depth? Why can't we have it all? First developer to do that gets more of my green!

 

You say OFF has been in development for five years and RoF out for only six months...what point are you trying to make there? The same one as RoF has been in development for five years and OFF out for only twelve months? How about comparing OFF's advantage of being a mod based upon an existing engine vs RoF's advantage of having a huge team of developers but being built from the ground up?

 

It's all chatter really. The bottom line is "What do I get for my money?" The one and only thing RoF excells at is eye-candy. It has no dynamic campaign, it's supposed saviour is a woefully under-par MP, it's AI, FM and DM are highly suspect, it lacks planes to the point of absurdity and it needs to connect to the KGB before it'll allow you to play it (DRM). I'm so un-impressed by everything I've read I've not been even mildly tempted to try the demo, much less part with cash.

 

If, and I say if, the RoF team can hang together for another year (at least), what's already available might be patched to an acceptable level. For a dynamic campaign, how many more years required, realistically? I was laughed out the door at SimHQ for predicting, in 2007, that SoW wouldn't see the shelves until 2010. Here's another prediction...RoF will be a ghost-town within two years. I wish I could believe otherwise, because RoF's graphics allied with everything else in OFF would be sublime. I just don't believe that's ever going to happen though, which is sad. I'm not down on RoF for the sake of it, I'm calling it like I see it. If they do somehow manage the miracle of making RoF an OFF with superb graphics I will be very glad.

[Bandy 3]

The "other WWI flight sim" ? First Eagles???

[JimAttrill 24]

The OFF Campaign is terrific. I went in today and was told I couldn't fly because the weather was too bad! The ability to stay with the same squadron/Jasta through changes of airfield and aircraft - all authentic, is terrific. And to do this the sim requires many different aircraft. I think it great that the devs added the DH5, not because it was a fantastic aeroplane, but because it was required to go through the war with (for example) 24 sqn.

 

So my point is - a sim without a decent campaign is just a game. shooty shooty bang bang. OFF has pulled me in to something greater. I want to get a pilot (or pilots) through the war in the same squadron/Jasta, while shooting down a few opponents on the way. But the requirement to stay alive makes me more careful, just like in reality.

[appraiserfl 0]

I should also point out that I'd need a brand new PC, which is rather unlikely unless I come up on the National Lottery. Eye candy is nice, but essentially an immersive campaign is the theatre of the mind, and no amount of graphic splendour can compensate for that.

 

I remain on the fence.

 

You do realize that you sound like the guy that refused to switch over to the automobile and stay with yer ol trusty buggy and whip! And yes you really should upgrade from those candles and use electricity, yea I know the light is not as calming but from a strict safety stand point you should really go with electricity over candle light. And also, plumbing, you should really let the outhouse go and modernize your home with a sewage link, while its true that you will have to pay for the service it just really is more sanitary so you should really go with that!

 

On a serious standpoint, ROF is not worth upgrading your rig over, that is an unfair pressure for any game. Your rig is worth upgrading for, ROF, WOP, (SOW in two weeks ) and eyefinity which is simply amazing!

[appraiserfl 0]

It's all chatter really. The bottom line is "What do I get for my money?" The one and only thing RoF excells at is eye-candy. It has no dynamic campaign, it's supposed saviour is a woefully under-par MP, it's AI, FM and DM are highly suspect, it lacks planes to the point of absurdity and it needs to connect to the KGB before it'll allow you to play it (DRM). I'm so un-impressed by everything I've read I've not been even mildly tempted to try the demo, much less part with cash.

 

You have not played the product, thus you have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, but that is just plain ignorant. I was on the fence, and had read all the negative stuff, even regretted the purchase as it was downloanding, then I was very happy to realize that it was an excellent game to experience. Don't talk until you try otherwise you may end up eating the wrong end of a goat!

Edited January 5, 2010 by appraiserfl

[shredward 12]

OK guys, it's starting to get nasty. Back off or we'll shut it down.

Cheers,

shredward

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

I've been having quite a bit of fun flying team co-op missions in RoF. One mission in particular has the Allies trying to take out a train before it gets to a certain destination. The Central pilots have to defend the train. It's set in rolling hills covered with trees and a large river. VERY fun.

 

I called my buddy today, the one who I bought a copy of OFF for, and told him to get RoF so we could fly as wingmates, and take out a few trains :)

In the same breath I told him he needed OFF for playing solo, with the outstanding campaign, when he just needed some air time and a respite from his rough schedule. When we can coordinate schedules to fly, and have a tasty single malt scotch at the same time, while talking smack over skype/teamspeak, it'll be an outstanding event.

 

I guess my point is well illustrated by my two cars: my Honda SUV that my wife drives, which is a very safe vehicle and one that is comfortable, and my old honda accord...20 years old, and not very sexy, but it gets me to work every day and hasnt let me down. The AC blows good and cold too.

 

I dont think I could manage without either vehicle.

 

For $20, you're really missing something (if your pc can handle it). If your pc cant handle it atm, then in the future when you upgrade, it'll be a good and well worth it purchase.

 

BTW, one of the things about how great OFF is, is the community. I've learned so much here, and received very helpful assistance with all my questions. Not many communities are mature and respectful like this one.

Add in the very uber-cool Devs, and it's just another great slice of pie for ww1 pilot wannabes... :D

 

S!

Edited January 5, 2010 by Broadside uda Barn

[LtCasey 0]

I've been having quite a bit of fun flying team co-op missions in RoF. One mission in particular has the Allies trying to take out a train before it gets to a certain destination. The Central pilots have to defend the train. It's set in rolling hills covered with trees and a large river. VERY fun.

 

I called my buddy today, the one who I bought a copy of OFF for, and told him to get RoF so we could fly as wingmates, and take out a few trains :)

In the same breath I told him he needed OFF for playing solo, with the outstanding campaign, when he just needed some air time and a respite from his rough schedule. When we can coordinate schedules to fly, and have a tasty single malt scotch at the same time, while talking smack over skype/teamspeak, it'll be an outstanding event.

 

I guess my point is well illustrated by my two cars: my Honda SUV that my wife drives, which is a very safe vehicle and one that is comfortable, and my old honda accord...20 years old, and not very sexy, but it gets me to work every day and hasnt let me down. The AC blows good and cold too.

 

I dont think I could manage without either vehicle.

 

For $20, you're really missing something (if your pc can handle it). If your pc cant handle it atm, then in the future when you upgrade, it'll be a good and well worth it purchase.

 

BTW, one of the things about how great OFF is, is the community. I've learned so much here, and received very helpful assistance with all my questions. Not many communities are mature and respectful like this one.

Add in the very uber-cool Devs, and it's just another great slice of pie for ww1 pilot wannabes... :D

 

S!

 

You hit the nail!

 

Me thinking, these two games are not comparable. The only thing that both have in common is the scenario and timeline.

 

What amazes me in ROF is MP and the possibility to navigate via landmarks an your map and compass. You dont need any labels or Tacs or navmarkers.

 

For OFF its that outstanding community, the creativity of them e.g. Siggi and his DID standard, really present devs, and a fantastic campaign, that immerses me everytime. Thats why I bought HitR. And for support, ofcourse!

 

Maybe OBD will earn enough money with the OFF franchise, to spend it on an own game engine to put this great game even further. Then there will be no discussions anymore .

 

Regards

Edited January 5, 2010 by LtCasey