Good night everyone - everywhere on earth - Way way way off topic

[Olham 164]

Joe the Plumber? Who the heck is that - could you explain to the people from over the pond?

[Von Paulus 8]

You didn't followed the American elections in 2008, Olham. Probably it was the last thing I followed thoroughly in the news. I had some hopes back there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Have 'No' knowledge of the 'History' of the British 'Healthcare' System, I should think very few do, other than youself of course

 

You're about to learn all about it Uncleal...thanks to Obama

[Olham 164]

Well, it seems to me, that a general health care would be good for those, who don't have any

health care yet - the very poor people.

Couldn't those people, who earn a better income, make additional health insurances, which would

provide them with a "first class health care" still?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, it seems to me, that a general health care would be good for those, who don't have any

health care yet - the very poor people.

Couldn't those people, who earn a better income, make additional health insurances, which would

provide them with a "first class health care" still?

 

I believe that is pretty much the route the US is now taking?

[Hasse Wind 46]

Well, it seems to me, that a general health care would be good for those, who don't have any

health care yet - the very poor people.

Couldn't those people, who earn a better income, make additional health insurances, which would

provide them with a "first class health care" still?

 

We have a system somewhat like that in Finland. Everybody is entitled to health care, a system which is funded by the taxpayers and has worked quite well for decades (and enjoys widespread popular support - maybe because we are a small nation and used to looking after every member of our society - we can't afford to "waste" our people), but if you want to get faster health care, you can get it from the private sector. Life-threatening conditions are always treated ASAP, even if you are poor. It just means somebody with a less serious condition will have to wait a bit longer to get his treatment (unless he wants to go to the private sector).

 

The concepts of Liberalism and Conservatism seem to be turned upside down in the US politics. It seems to me many Americans understand Liberalism to mean practically the same thing as Communism (and I have personal experience from that system, having lived in Estonia during the Soviet era) which is something I don't understand. And people who claim to be conservatives are really following a system of Liberalism (minimal state role etc.), maybe even Libertarianism as far as I understand these concepts. In European history, Conservatism has been something very different, even reactionary, in its support of old monarchical regimes and undemocratic societies. (Think of Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary for example, which were ultra-conservative.)

 

That probably didn't make any sense to anybody, but at least I got it out of my system. Now back to enjoying OFF.

[zoomzoom 2]

Well, here is part of the problem in a nutshell. Forgive me if its too simplistic, as I am trying to follow the most Excellent example of gentlemanly conduct as laid out by our friend Duce Lewis. (thank you by the way and well done sir )

 

The problem some folks have (or one of them, there are multiples) with the current attempt at centralized govt health care in the US is that it is being forwarded with the claim, (and I stress CLAIM) that it is being done so with the full intention of continuing to allow competition. Ie..that other insurers will still be allowed to compete with the govt offering. Well well...if its that simple and clean who could possibly complain you might ask?

 

Well, as with all things political, it isnt that simple and easy...in fact..in addition to forwarding the centalized system, the govt is also tampering with the private insurers to in effect, give itself such an edge as to put them out of business altogether. Not exactly a fair and level playing field.

 

One example: A new legislation is now REQUIRING insurance companies to accept individuals they wouldn't or couldn't previously. So, if Charlie shows up riddled with Cancer-consumptive syphilis, and a brain anneurism...already diagnosed and confirmed today...they now HAVE to take him on. Well, if you understand anything about the insurance business...this will simply bankrupt the system, so you are in essence, (in an underhanded way) left with only one option. (Woops, the govt. might say...what a subltle coincidence)

 

I exaggerated a tad on the health severity example, but after talking with some friends in the industry....not much.

 

So as you can see...this is just ONE of the concerning elements at play here, and they are all subtle...fuzzy...and tricky to discern.

 

ZZ.

Edited March 31, 2010 by zoomzoom

[Mr_Dirt 1]

This is my 2 cents on US healthcare. I do not always agree with a government sponsored insurance, but there is a need for healthcare reform. I am a pharmacist and my wife is a Regsitered Nurse, so our living is affected by healthcare problems. The US has already had gov. sponsored healthcare in the form of Medicare on Medicaid for years. I have watched insurance companies control most of everything we do. We are forced to buy insurance for our autos by law, you can not afford to not have some type of health insurance. I watch as the pharmacy I work for was shut down because Medicare D could take as long as 6 to 8 months to pay their claims, if they paid at all. They were very good at denying claims and not paying at all. Another favorite trick was to pay at a cost less than the medication cost us wholesale. Medicare D is the governments way of letting the insurance companies run gov. healthcare. In the US you will not see many mom and pop pharmacies much longer, they can not compete with the Walmarts and Walgreens. RX drugs in a pharmacy may make you a 5 to 6 percent profit, that is why walmart and walgreens sale all the other things in their stores. I also see the insurance companies side of the healthcare system. I recently had double bypass surgery and stents were put in later because the bypass failed . I have recently started receiving the bills from the surgery. My wife requested the bills be itemized so we could check the cost. I am what the nurses call a hard stick, because the viens in me are deep and small. I had to have an IV placed so they use a needle call an angiocath to do this. The lab tech used 4 angiocaths before she got one to work. I was charged $249.00 apiece for these angiocaths. The angiocaths cost the hospital $2.47 apiece. I know the hospital pads the bill on people that have insurance to offset the cost of the ones that have no insurance. I would not want these kind of price increases if I am an insurance company. The insurance companies offset this by raising their rates and raising deductibles. I know in the long run what will happen, the insurance company will deny paying for the angiocaths and I will be responsible for payment. Our healthcare system is broke and needs fixed, but I do not know how we can do it so everybody is happy.

[zoomzoom 2]

You make an excellent point Mr. Dirt. And this price hiking (in my opinion) IS exactly what needs to be addressed and reformed in the pre-existing system. Unfortunately the govt. has seen this as an opportunity to get its greedy fingers in on the equation, and thats not going to help matters either. In fact, quite the opposite.

 

A great example,much like your own, is as follows.

 

My father, now 85, was a friend of another elderly woman and helped her conduct the affairs of her estate until her death. She asked him to help her with this, as she had no family she trusted.

 

On one occasion before she died when she was sick, they took her to the hospital for test to determine what was wrong. Much like your account Mr. D, they asked for an itemization, only after the bill came back a bit higher than expected. Amongst the items they listed they had performed on her (she was in her 90's) was a pregnancy test. Ok...need I say more. And the mentality of tacking things on and hiking things up IS exactly what needs to be checked/regulated, and ties right back into the driving greed that(as mentioned by others here before) is exaclty what causes the problem in the first place. Its a good sytem, it just needs to be cleaned up. In a very similar way to which the credit card companies are being required to behave themselves in a less abusive way (one good note of late). We don't need a govt credit card either, just like we dont need govt health care that will eliminate eventually all other options, just logical regulations to the pre existing forms. At least thats my 2 bits, but others my differ....and thats fine.

 

ZZ.

 

PS. "Our healthcare system is broke and needs fixed, but I do not know how we can do it so everybody is happy."

 

Well, that'll NEVER happen! Maybe shoot for %75 happy?

Edited March 31, 2010 by zoomzoom

[zoomzoom 2]

"See that's a prime example of being spoon-fed your information."

Well, not so much, exactly. I mean please, dont ask me who's who or whats what regarding German, or even English politics. I am quite clueless. And the same is to be expected of those not in the loop of whatever the "National Scene" is for any given country.

 

ZZ.

[Mr_Dirt 1]

I agree zz, but who polices the system the Dr's can not because they are the ones who order the tests that are not needed. The gov. can not because they do not know how to manage period. I see the people as the ones caught between a rock and a hard place. I t is almost impossible to get one Dr. to disagree with another. The problem is the greed built into the system. When you go to the Dr. and he puts you in the hospital and another Dr. is brought in because your disease is beyond the scope of the first you end up paying both Drs. instead of one. Twenty years ago I had a Dr. who was an ortho surgeon who rebuilt my left arm after a farming accident. This Dr. saw me every month for 3 years and only charged me one office call. He did 8 surgeries on my arm and was payed for them, but he did save some of the use in my left arm and hand. I should have lost the arm, but 3 surgeons worked 10 hrs to save it. This was done in a small hospital. I was in the ICU for 6 weeks and the total hospital bill was around 40 thousand dollars. The thing about it was my insurance paid most all the bill. I would hate to stay in the ICU 6 weeks now I would most likely have to take a loan against my house to pay the bill. The Dr now want MRI and CAT scans every time. Like you said this adds cost to your bill which the insurance does not like to pay.

 

I agree zz, but who polices the system the Dr's can not because they are the ones who order the tests that are not needed. The gov. can not because they do not know how to manage period. I see the people as the ones caught between a rock and a hard place. I t is almost impossible to get one Dr. to disagree with another. The problem is the greed built into the system. When you go to the Dr. and he puts you in the hospital and another Dr. is brought in because your disease is beyond the scope of the first you end up paying both Drs. instead of one. Twenty years ago I had a Dr. who was an ortho surgeon who rebuilt my left arm after a farming accident. This Dr. saw me every month for 3 years and only charged me one office call. He did 8 surgeries on my arm and was payed for them, but he did save some of the use in my left arm and hand. I should have lost the arm, but 3 surgeons worked 10 hrs to save it. This was done in a small hospital. I was in the ICU for 6 weeks and the total hospital bill was around 40 thousand dollars. The thing about it was my insurance paid most all the bill. I would hate to stay in the ICU 6 weeks now I would most likely have to take a loan against my house to pay the bill. The Dr now want MRI and CAT scans every time. Like you said this adds cost to your bill which the insurance does not like to pay.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Mr_Dirt

[Mr_Dirt 1]

I agree zz, but who polices the system the Dr's can not because they are the ones who order the tests that are not needed. The gov. can not because they do not know how to manage period. I see the people as the ones caught between a rock and a hard place. I t is almost impossible to get one Dr. to disagree with another. The problem is the greed built into the system. When you go to the Dr. and he puts you in the hospital and another Dr. is brought in because your disease is beyond the scope of the first you end up paying both Drs. instead of one. Twenty years ago I had a Dr. who was an ortho surgeon who rebuilt my left arm after a farming accident. This Dr. saw me every month for 3 years and only charged me one office call. He did 8 surgeries on my arm and was payed for them, but he did save some of the use in my left arm and hand. I should have lost the arm, but 3 surgeons worked 10 hrs to save it. This was done in a small hospital. I was in the ICU for 6 weeks and the total hospital bill was around 40 thousand dollars. The thing about it was my insurance paid most all the bill. I would hate to stay in the ICU 6 weeks now I would most likely have to take a loan against my house to pay the bill. The Dr now want MRI and CAT scans every time. Like you said this adds cost to your bill which the insurance does not like to pay.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Mr_Dirt

[Mr_Dirt 1]

sorry about the double post

[zoomzoom 2]

Hmmmm. Did some farming myself back in the day. What got you, a grain augur, PTO shaft, or an animal?

 

One of the few professions, other than Coal Mining or actual combat, where folks really desrve combat pay.

 

ZZ.

[zoomzoom 2]

Where your valid point falls apart, he is the leader of the Free World, his actions or inactions have far reaching effects. And while the average German would have no say in his election. It might be of passing interest, that many folk say he's a Liar, where if he stated his intentions, he never would've been elected.

 

Ok whatever. All I'm sayin is, I don't know jack about foriegn politics, so why, "Free world or no" ( a tad egocentric if you ask me) should they know every little detail about ours. As far as Obama being a manipulative politician....I agree...but thats not even a point I'm making. I think he makes it well enough on his own if people are truly objectively following things.

 

My interest has been peaked however by Mr. Dirts Farm injury, so I'm totally distracted. See how short an attention span I have!!

 

Please tell me it wasn't an augur....thats just plain nasty.

 

ZZ.

[Mr_Dirt 1]

zz pto on an auger. went around and around until my weight finally caused the tractor to die. The left arm was bent way behind my head. I pulled my coat over my head unwrapped my coat from the pto and walked to my truck. I could not drive because it was a 4 spd stick. I called the boss's wife told her to come and get me. Went to the hospital told the Dr. to save it if he could, cut it off if he could not, but at least I was alive. When I woke up I was afraid to look because I thought they would cut it off. I went back to school became a pharmacist.

[zoomzoom 2]

DAMN!! Sorry friend. Most people dont understand how horrific that is. Its like (for those of you who are unfamiliar) being caught in a tractor powered meat grinder that simply twists and beats you to death. You are lucky the tractor died, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. Glad you are still with us.

 

ZZ.

Edited March 31, 2010 by zoomzoom

[Mr_Dirt 1]

I was very lucky, that and mad. I kept telling myself I will not die hung on this tractor. I might die walking to the truck but not hung on this tractor. I had ben around machinery most of my life. I worked in rock Quarries and farms. My whole life changed in a split second it took to pull me into the pto.

[Flyby PC 23]

I'm not being political, but can somebody explain the US hostility towards a National Health Service? I don't get it.

 

In the UK, part of your tax pays for the NHS so medical care is free. It's like buying a lottery ticket when you can't lose. If you need medical treatment, you get it. If you don't need any treatment, you still have the peace of mind of knowing help is there if you ever do need it. If you want to pay twice for private medicine then that's up to you. But follow the logic, and rich people will soon be hiring mercenaries because they think the army is under funded. God forbid they may have to wait to be defended!

 

Would I trust the NHS over and above private health care? Absolutely. The NHS is there to get me better, not to profit from my misfortune for the benefit of shareholders.

 

People run down the UK NHS because it's chronically under funded and fails people from time to time, but don't be fooled. The NHS is a wonderful institution and something the UK should rightly be very proud of and fight hard to defend.

 

My grandpa on my mother's side went self employed in his own timber yard in the late 40's. Unfortunately, shortly afterwards, he fed his fingers into a saw and lost three of them. I don't recall the details exactly, but an important letter hadn't been sent, either the insurance form or maybe registration for the NHS. Bottom line is he lost out big time. He got nothing. No payout, no compensation, lost the yard, his livelihood and such like, and life became a lot tougher for my gran. He was a grizzley old git. When I was a toddler I used to suck my index finger all the time as kiddies do, but grandpa would jank my finger out my mouth and wave his stumps at me saying that's what happened if you sucked your fingers too much. Old git. Scared the life out me. (Stopped sucking my finger though).

 

 

[catch 81]

if you understand anything about the insurance business...

 

Well generally speaking, it's legalised extortion to maximise profits whilst minimising services and using every dirty low down trick in the book not to pay out fully on valid claims. It's about time they were reeled in.

[Burning Beard 14]

Actually Catch the same thing could be said about the government.

 

Beard

[Duce Lewis 3]

Well, here is part of the problem in a nutshell. Forgive me if its too simplistic, as I am trying to follow the most Excellent example of gentlemanly conduct as laid out by our friend Duce Lewis. (thank you by the way and well done sir )

Thank you zoomzoom, I was a tad nervous when typing that out

Thought I might be just leaping into the fray myself

Half expected a "Bugger Off You" but it's simmered down nicely here

In reality this forum is a very decent lot of chaps

We get along 99% of the time but some topics are emotional and the typed word is such a poor conveyer of thought

 

I'm not being political, but can somebody explain the US hostility towards a National Health Service? I don't get it.

I'll take a stab at that one Flyby

But this is only my opinion on the facts ...or on my fantasies

 

I don't think there are many, conservative or liberal that don't think Health Care is in crisis in America

Costs have been spiraling up double of inflation for literally decades

It's now 1/6 of the economy and there's no stopping in sight

 

It's also putting a severe crimp on US companies

Most health care in the US is provided by employers with employees contributing 10-20%

Competetion from China/India, etc is really tough and if you add spiralling health care costs, competing gets tougher every year

Outsourcing jobs overseas is pandemic

 

But Americans tend to hold to our "rugged individualism" and the majority don't think Gov't Healthcare is the answer

There's a lot of eveidence for this

Both Tennessee and Massachusetts incorporated healthcare at the state level and they're having serious budget crisis'

I personally know severl Canadians that complain that you can't get an MRI for months

I won't try to detail your system to you, but we're getting reports that in Europe quality is down, delays are long, and costs are out of control

 

Polls show that America is 20% Liberal, 40% Conservative, & 40% Independent, this makes us a Center/Right Country

In general we tend to favor small gov't, low taxes, and letting the people decide what they want to do with their money

Ronald Reagan was wildly popular here because he expoused those principles

Many ask why will the cost of health care stop increasing or go down simply because the gov't starts paying for it?

There's an old national sarcastic line that goes "Yeah, nationalise it and make it as efficient as the Post Office"

This is not a universally held believe and since the # of independents is so large, the popular opinion can swing back & forth some

 

Now Barrack Obama gets elected, an extremely charismatic man, but also the man with the most liberal voting record in the Senate ...not a Centrist

He promises many things, Change in partisan Washington politics, a new era of Bipartisanship, Televised negotiations on Healthcare

Very quickly the reality proved just the opposite

All health care negotiations were behind locked doors, no cameras or Republicans allowed

Republicans weren't even allowed to offer ammendments to the Bill

Democrats were riding high, winning the House of Representatives by about 80 Seats and a 60-40 filibuster proof majority in the Senate

They thought they could get everything they wanted and make no compromises

 

Well the Bill turned out to be so liberal, that even some Democrats wouldn't vote for it

That's when the back room wheeling dealing started

ex. Some States were exempted from new healthcare costs just to get their Senator's vote

Most Americans really hated this as; Why should only some pay for the healthcare for all?

Even the citizens of those states benefitting hated those deals

 

This Bill claims to save 138 Billion, but it's devoid of any real cost cutting measures

It adds 32 million to the healthcare rolls ...simple economics: increase demand, prices go up

It adds 4-500 Billion in taxes on employees health care benefits

It takes 400 Billion out of Medicare (seniors) with no provision how that will be put back or simply just Medicare service cuts

It allows people with pre-existing conditions to sign-up then get immediate treatment

There are fines if people don't sign up ahaead of time but the fines are less than they'd pay for healthcare premiums

 

Some of the good Republican ideas that were ignored:

- Allow insurance companies to sell policies cross stte lines to increase competition

Currently each state sets it's own healthcare standards so there are few options in each state

 

- Legislate Torte Reform (Limiting hugh legal settlements that drive healthcare costs up)

Many blame the Doctors and Insurance Companies for spiraling healthcare costs

But what's really going on?

In many areas, Women can't even find a Obstetrician in their county

They've all been driven out of business by hugh malpractice Insurance Costs and the Insurance Companies limiting their payments

But are the Insurance Companies really getting rich?

A simple look at Wall Street shows top Insurance Companies are typically making 2, 3, 5% profits

There is no Hot Tip in the Stock Market to buy Insurnce Company Stock ...there's no profit there!

By contrast when oil prices went through the roof a couple years ago, everyone who'd bought oil stocks cleaned up

Follow the money, who's getting rich ...the lawyers

There's hardly a Doctor, good or bad, who isn't beset by multiple lawsuits

In the end, all those costs get passed down to us

 

Here's an expmple of how Torte Reform can work

Texas was losing Doctors in their border region at an alarming rate

Texas is a conservative state nd instituyted Torte Reform

You could still sue for 100% of medical costs and lost wages

...but pain and suffering was limited to $250k max

Teaxs reduced their healthcare costs by 40%

...and the Doctors started signing up to practice in Texas at the highest rate in their history

 

Epilogue (you know it's an interminably long post when you have to add an epilogue )

A bad healthcare Bill can be much worse than no healthcare Bill

Scrap this monstroucity and start over - with true bipartisanship

And why doon't we focus on jobs?

A guy with a job doesn't need subsidized healthcare

[rabu 9]

Thank you zoomzoom, I was a tad nervous when typing that out

Thought I might be just leaping into the fray myself

Half expected a "Bugger Off You" but it's simmered down nicely here

In reality this forum is a very decent lot of chaps

We get along 99% of the time but some topics are emotional and the typed word is such a poor conveyer of thought

 

 

I'll take a stab at that one Flyby

But this is only my opinion on the facts ...or on my fantasies

 

...snip......

Epilogue (you know it's an interminably long post when you have to add an epilogue )

A bad healthcare Bill can be much worse than no healthcare Bill

Scrap this monstroucity and start over - with true bipartisanship

And why doon't we focus on jobs?

A guy with a job doesn't need subsidized healthcare

 

Sorry, Duce, I've got to make a comment here, you seem to be parroting every bad rumor about the bill and it's consequences and totally ignoring the facts that are actually known. Yes, it needs a lot of improvement, but it's a first step and does have a lot of really good things going for it.

 

Here are just a few reputable links to non partisan sites that talk more about the bill with out an agenda:

 

Probably the most honest and well respected reporting is by the Monitor and this recent article on how it will affect the economy (click here)

 

FactCheck.Org has also been reliable in non biased reporting, correcting misleading and false statements on all sides:

 

Top recent health care Falsehoods (click here)

and on U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop's statments (click here)

Brest cancer lies by the organizer of the Tea Party movement (click here)

Voting for a Health Care Takeover? (click here)

26 Lies about HR 3200 (click here)

 

PolitiFact.com tends to investigate and report fairly also exposing both sides of issues that are true, or misleading or untrue:

Health Care statements analyzed for truth (click here)

Thier ObamaMeter of facts(click here)

 

Just thought some of you might like to read some informative articles instead of some of the intentional, or unintentional, misleading rumors floating around.

 

Oh, and on your Texas Tort reform and its implications: (click here)

Edited April 1, 2010 by rabu

[Flyby PC 23]

Thank you zoomzoom, I was a tad nervous when typing that out

Thought I might be just leaping into the fray myself

Half expected a "Bugger Off You" but it's simmered down nicely here

In reality this forum is a very decent lot of chaps

We get along 99% of the time but some topics are emotional and the typed word is such a poor conveyer of thought

 

 

I'll take a stab at that one Flyby

But this is only my opinion on the facts ...or on my fantasies

 

I don't think there are many, conservative or liberal that don't think Health Care is in crisis in America

Costs have been spiraling up double of inflation for literally decades

It's now 1/6 of the economy and there's no stopping in sight

 

It's also putting a severe crimp on US companies

Most health care in the US is provided by employers with employees contributing 10-20%

Competetion from China/India, etc is really tough and if you add spiralling health care costs, competing gets tougher every year

Outsourcing jobs overseas is pandemic

 

But Americans tend to hold to our "rugged individualism" and the majority don't think Gov't Healthcare is the answer

There's a lot of eveidence for this

Both Tennessee and Massachusetts incorporated healthcare at the state level and they're having serious budget crisis'

I personally know severl Canadians that complain that you can't get an MRI for months

I won't try to detail your system to you, but we're getting reports that in Europe quality is down, delays are long, and costs are out of control

 

Polls show that America is 20% Liberal, 40% Conservative, & 40% Independent, this makes us a Center/Right Country

In general we tend to favor small gov't, low taxes, and letting the people decide what they want to do with their money

Ronald Reagan was wildly popular here because he expoused those principles

Many ask why will the cost of health care stop increasing or go down simply because the gov't starts paying for it?

There's an old national sarcastic line that goes "Yeah, nationalise it and make it as efficient as the Post Office"

This is not a universally held believe and since the # of independents is so large, the popular opinion can swing back & forth some

 

Now Barrack Obama gets elected, an extremely charismatic man, but also the man with the most liberal voting record in the Senate ...not a Centrist

He promises many things, Change in partisan Washington politics, a new era of Bipartisanship, Televised negotiations on Healthcare

Very quickly the reality proved just the opposite

All health care negotiations were behind locked doors, no cameras or Republicans allowed

Republicans weren't even allowed to offer ammendments to the Bill

Democrats were riding high, winning the House of Representatives by about 80 Seats and a 60-40 filibuster proof majority in the Senate

They thought they could get everything they wanted and make no compromises

 

Well the Bill turned out to be so liberal, that even some Democrats wouldn't vote for it

That's when the back room wheeling dealing started

ex. Some States were exempted from new healthcare costs just to get their Senator's vote

Most Americans really hated this as; Why should only some pay for the healthcare for all?

Even the citizens of those states benefitting hated those deals

 

This Bill claims to save 138 Billion, but it's devoid of any real cost cutting measures

It adds 32 million to the healthcare rolls ...simple economics: increase demand, prices go up

It adds 4-500 Billion in taxes on employees health care benefits

It takes 400 Billion out of Medicare (seniors) with no provision how that will be put back or simply just Medicare service cuts

It allows people with pre-existing conditions to sign-up then get immediate treatment

There are fines if people don't sign up ahaead of time but the fines are less than they'd pay for healthcare premiums

 

Some of the good Republican ideas that were ignored:

- Allow insurance companies to sell policies cross stte lines to increase competition

Currently each state sets it's own healthcare standards so there are few options in each state

 

- Legislate Torte Reform (Limiting hugh legal settlements that drive healthcare costs up)

Many blame the Doctors and Insurance Companies for spiraling healthcare costs

But what's really going on?

In many areas, Women can't even find a Obstetrician in their county

They've all been driven out of business by hugh malpractice Insurance Costs and the Insurance Companies limiting their payments

But are the Insurance Companies really getting rich?

A simple look at Wall Street shows top Insurance Companies are typically making 2, 3, 5% profits

There is no Hot Tip in the Stock Market to buy Insurnce Company Stock ...there's no profit there!

By contrast when oil prices went through the roof a couple years ago, everyone who'd bought oil stocks cleaned up

Follow the money, who's getting rich ...the lawyers

There's hardly a Doctor, good or bad, who isn't beset by multiple lawsuits

In the end, all those costs get passed down to us

 

Here's an expmple of how Torte Reform can work

Texas was losing Doctors in their border region at an alarming rate

Texas is a conservative state nd instituyted Torte Reform

You could still sue for 100% of medical costs and lost wages

...but pain and suffering was limited to $250k max

Teaxs reduced their healthcare costs by 40%

...and the Doctors started signing up to practice in Texas at the highest rate in their history

 

Epilogue (you know it's an interminably long post when you have to add an epilogue )

A bad healthcare Bill can be much worse than no healthcare Bill

Scrap this monstroucity and start over - with true bipartisanship

And why doon't we focus on jobs?

A guy with a job doesn't need subsidized healthcare

 

Thanks for that Duce.

 

So the actual healthcare itself is a side issue?

 

Seems to me your enemy isn't national healthcare, but disreputable lawyers and insurance companies running out of control, abusing the system in their pursuit of profit at whatever cost. - Not unlike other 'untouchables' like the Banks, and we all know how well that one's turning out....

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Which leads us neatly back around to my Original post about Greed.

 

Disreputable Lawyers, Insurance companies and Banks are high on my Hitlist!