SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Caesar 305]

Eric, no reason to shoot any Super Bugs; it has already been shown from a player perspective that an AIM-54 can and will shoot down an AIM-120D laden foe, so there's no reason to give up once one takes off. I think you might want to try to take your AIM-120D's against a similarly equipped opponent and try the turn and run tactic, because in my own experience, I've tried to run from an incoming missile fired at Rmax and it catches me well beyond the missile's maximum range (though this WAS at older patch levels). Also, the AI doesn't usually take maneuvering measures against incoming missiles, it just dumps chaff, so he'll fly right into the incoming missile regardless of airframe (happens a lot to me going against MiG-29's and it makes me irate when a missile misses a non-evasive target - I blame it on bad fuzing!)

 

Boulder, the F-14B was more maneuverable than the A for sure, but it depends on what altitude and airspeed you're fighting at. The F-14B was a hell of an accelerating airframe out to about 1.6M; most of the Tomcat drivers and RIO's I've spoken to have said the bird will out-accelerate any other Teen-Series jet except for the F-16C Block 30 (specifically) at nearly any altitude, but that in a "drag race" the Viper would run out of fuel far more quickly. Even with the more powerful engines, the F-14B/D doesn't fight as well at very high altitudes as, say, an F-15C (25-35k). Like you explained against the F-14A, keep your speed up, keep him at high altitudes, and you should be able to out turn or out fight him in the vertical. The tricky part is that the F-14B corners about 100-120 knots slower than the F-15, so his radius is smaller, and it doesn't take as much "g" to achieve a higher rate at the lower airspeed. That said, so long as you keep your F-15 at higher speeds, maintain higher rates longer at higher "g", maybe your F-14B opponent will get his nose in your direction a few times, but he shouldn't be able to hold it there, especially if he's nose-up.

 

In an F-16, I'd recommend the same thing, only maybe not as high up (20-25k-ish), faster speed and higher g with higher sustained turn rate. Don't get slow against an F-14 in the F-16! This was a tactic usable even in the F-14A; beat the Viper down on speed and watch it run into its limiters. The F-14 has none, and with the flaps down it has been proven historically that the underpowered "A" can pretty easily have the F-16 if the Viper driver takes the bait and gets slow. Higher speeds, however, and it shouldn't be too difficult, just remember he'll probably have a smaller radius. For the F-22, I'd suggest checking your weight. If memory serves, it is a HEAVY bird with 100% fuel in-game. Either that or I've got an older model of it, and it has been updated. I think it's somewhat compensated for by the engine thrust, but the lighter the better.

[+Brain32 265]

Guys you do realize that Tomcat had by far the highest wingloading(higher than F-104) and the poorest thrust to weight in the teen series?

I mean I love the big ol' Cat too, but let's be realistic a man can out-pilot another man but nobody out-pilots physics ;)

[Caesar 305]

Well, not quite. The F-14 is the best wing loaded with the pancake considered (generating as much as 443sqft of extra lift and doesn't stall until 35 degrees alpha, with a resultant wing loading in a turn of about 52lb/sf at combat weight, which puts it at the lowest wing loading from a classical standpoint.) and the B/D is in the region of 1:1 TW at combat weight, better than 1:1 with 2 Sparrow, 2 Sidewinder and 50% fuel (dependent on altitude and airspeed, as with any other fighter). Which is why you have to be careful when you say "The F-14" - the A model at combat weight runs about .8:1, and then if you consider Phoenix pylons, the pancake ain't working, so in that instance, yes, you end up with a worse handling aircraft. Hence why operationally, if F-14's were on CAPs or Sweeps, they'd usually carry Sparrow and Sidewinder (such as in the Su-22 and MiG-23 shoot downs, no Phoenix were on board in either instance), but for patrols where bombers were the key factor, or in blue water ops where a mix might be appropriate, and stand-off shots expected, Phoenix would be carried. Its pilots attest to the difference in handling with and without the Phoenix pylons attached to the jet.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Caesar

[+EricJ 4,246]

Good points Caesar, but some tactics are good against specific threats, such as the tactic was useful against the Buk SAM system, and wouldn't work against say.. an S-300PS, which required it's own set of tactics to work out. SO I never said that the tactic is valid (it might, or might not) against my own preferred missile system, and besides a "hit and run" is better for the ego because the point is to stay out of his envelope.

[+Brain32 265]

By pancake I believe you are referring to the lifting body design but F-14 is not the only one featuring it

 

As for AoA I think you are referring to the point were the plane is stable or something as I've even seen Tomcat doing almost a Cobra maneuver in testing trials but then again F-18/16/15 are FBW restricted and all this has to be at low speed(actually Hornet is used for high-alpha testing by NASA so it seems navy really likes high alpha machines).

I'm interested how stuff looks sustained especially since AFAIK Tomcat, unlike F-15 and 16 is not a full 9g plane...

 

Trust to weights I have are all with full fuel (no plane is rigged for perfection) considering the F-14 is in the low 0,9 and the F-15 around 1,1 I don't see Tomcat being at any kind of advantage here unless GE-400 at some altitude pushes A LOT better than PW-220.

Oh and I'm not mixing it with the first A's with TF30 as those Tomcats were just barely better dogfighters than Phantoms...

[Caesar 305]

If you consider full fuel, the Tomcat is always going to show as a disadvantage, since it also carries the most internally compared to any other Teen-series aircraft. It takes fuel to get to the combat arena, and it is assumed missiles will have been fired before-hand, so combat weight is listed in all of my sources as 60% fuel, 2 Sparrow, 2 Sidewinder - this is out of date since the Sparrow is largely replaced now by the AMRAAM. At that weight, the bird will produce between a range of about .96:1 and 1.06:1 depending on altitude and airspeed. While I know the F-14 isn't the only fighter to use the lifting body design (the F-15 does as well), it's been published repeatedly just how much the pancake does for the Tomcat.

 

And apparently, the GE's do push the F-14 a lot better, or Thrust to Drag is much in the Tomcat's favor compared to Thrust to Weight. Otherwise, it wouldn't out accelerate the F-15!

 

From the pilot standpoint, the A model was vastly superior even to slatted Phantoms. Although I've spoken to several of the pilots on the matter, one in particular, with time in the F-8, F-4, F-14 and F/A-18 put it this way: "F-8 and F-4 with equal pilots (1v1), the F-4 will kick the sh*t out of the F-8 at any altitude on any day, every time. Too bad the F-4 had no gun! What a mistake and not one repeated in future fighters!!! Then, when the F-4S came forth with, leading edge slats, smokeless motors, digital auto acquisition radar and VTAS...WOW... what a sheen! Your next question is going to be, how did this Phantooon do against the F-14A (1V1). It took it in the shorts! [got raped by the F-14] Anytime, any speed, any altitude, any day...even with a mediocre pilot in the Tomcat!" This, from a pilot with 2 combat cruises in the F-8, and prior to flying the Phantom, having been of the opposite opinion just from personal experience. His opinion of equal pilots in a fight against the F-16 was that an A should lose every time, but in a B or D, the F-16 "made a nice lunch" in a clean configured guns fight. That's a pretty damn big disparity.

 

If you want to start pulling out the charts, I'm afraid I'll just shut up. They're unclass, but they ain't releasable.

[+Brain32 265]

If you consider full fuel, the Tomcat is always going to show as a disadvantage, since it also carries the most internally compared to any other Teen-series aircraft. It takes fuel to get to the combat arena, and it is assumed missiles will have been fired before-hand, so combat weight is listed in all of my sources as 60% fuel, 2 Sparrow, 2 Sidewinder - this is out of date since the Sparrow is largely replaced now by the AMRAAM. At that weight, the bird will produce between a range of about .96:1 and 1.06:1 depending on altitude and airspeed. While I know the F-14 isn't the only fighter to use the lifting body design (the F-15 does as well), it's been published repeatedly just how much the pancake does for the Tomcat.

 

And apparently, the GE's do push the F-14 a lot better, or Thrust to Drag is much in the Tomcat's favor compared to Thrust to Weight. Otherwise, it wouldn't out accelerate the F-15!

 

It had most fuel internally(although not that much more than the Eagle) but it also had by far much more powerfull engines.

So I don't see why Tomcat at 60% fuel vs fully fueled F-15C would be a fair comparison when difference is about 15% while in the same time Tomcat has about 10% more thrust from engines. As for the pancake I don't know how much it helps the Tomcat but I do know F-15 landed without a wing...I'd say that's A LOT.

 

As for eating F-16, I can see that happening only if for some reason Viper guy decides to enter AoA pulling competition...which goes back in man vs. man category...

 

If you want to start pulling out the charts, I'm afraid I'll just shut up. They're unclass, but they ain't releasable.

I don't have engine charts, just manuals...but then again, we are starting to spam this topic lol

[Caesar 305]

I agree. We are, and realistically, it is of no consequence. The Tomcat is retired, it was on the same side as the F-15, -16 and -18 when it was in service (mostly), we modeled the FM alright for a home computer game, and that's about good enough for me.

[Caesar 305]

Well, time to put my own theories to the test. I will say this, the F-16N does need to be kept at higher airspeeds, and so long as it is, you shouldn't have a problem against the F-14B/D. This fight wasn't a super-one-sided matter, however.

 

Starting at about 18k with the F-14 below me with minor angle off, I pull into him in a descending turn. I've got a little bit much speed on me, but the aircraft burns it down as I modulate the throttles to get the best rate I can. The F-14 is keeping his speed high as well, deciding to come down with me. I roll and pull into the vertical, since this isn't going anywhere. The Tomcat pulls up behind me, and I wind up bleeding a lot of energy, but not so much that my F-16 is useless. The F-14 doesn't pitch enough for a snap shot, and as I come down, I'm not in a great position, but nor is he. I've got the plane in a turn for a moment, and the F-14 does the same, but checking our relative speeds, it won't give me an advantage. Instead, I push vertical again. As the F-14 starts getting his nose on, I can see he won't be able to get a firing solution if I maintain altitude, so rather than continue immediately for a loop, which could endanger me, rather than put me on his tails, I hold altitude, then as he overshoots, nose up and very low on energy, I decide I've had enough and am going to get my bird into the mid 400's and just see what happens in a one-circle since I capt prosecute him from my current situation.

 

 

 

 

Accelerate and begin to start a very shallow turn to keep some sort of defense for when he recovers, but not so much as to lose my acceleration. The bird is speeding up and its sustained "g" numbers are climbing. The F-14 is turning into me, but now I've got more "g" and a higher rate on my bird than he does. I've got about 9g on the aircraft, and the AI is pitch pulsing, averaging about 7 or so. As I get towards his seven o'clock he makes the standard AI mistake of reversing, and I end up right on his tails.

 

 

 

The F-14 is a huge airplane, so landing a hit on him with guns isn't the most difficult issue, however, he is flinging that bird around very well. At one point I damn near overshoot! Tight high yo-yo, get my bearings straight, get back on his tails, get gun tracking, burst 1 takes out the port engine and some flaps. More following but finally burst 2 brings him down.

 

(Near overshoot)

 

 

 

Takeaways: In about the 450-480KIAS range, the F-16N will just pull like a mad man (~9-9.5g sustained). I guess I haven't fought against the F-14B in a while because it wasn't as easy as I remember, but it certainly wasn't too tough. I was still driving the fight, and once I got the Viper into that sweet spot, it worked out pretty damn quick.

[saisran 84]

well according to Grumman Engineer's(I wan't an F-14, Tomcat Sunset or MATS). The tomcat's airframe can take more than 11G's. Navy rated it to 6.5, they say to improve meantime Protect electronics and something. i think it's so that Air force big wigs wont get jealous of the new plane.). About the F-15 Flying on one wing It's basically flew like an F-4. A huge engine with a cockpit. The plane ain't doing maneuvers and were just flying straight and fast. kept stable by the twin vert tail. I any case the argument about how fuel, flaps, pancake and tunnel layout improving the Tomcats ability against other fighters won't end. Either way Me and my tomcat may or may not be the best circus performer in the air but one thing i'm sure Compare to the other teen series. It's by far the most beautiful. Far prettier than Cyrano de bergerac nosed eagle. or the half plane viper or the collection of parts which is the Hornet. Only the blind and those lacking in aesthetic sense can argue this point.

 

2x F14B with 4x AIM-54CE 2x AIM-7N 2x AIM-9M vs 2X F-15C 2X F-16Cblk32 2x FA-18F all long range load. AIM-120 is limited to AIM-120C-5 as i dont have the D model. Anyways the D weren't around during the tomcats time.

 

The Superior radar on the Tomcat coupled with my Altitude advantage meant that picking up the Eagle from 80nm was a piece of cake. A few jabs on the Jammer is enough to make the Tomcat invisible on the Eagle's radar. Wingie my boy waste them.

 

 

Nice Job wingie.

 

Death! A huge Fireball

 

that tiny speck out there... that's death staring you at the face... Boom!!!

t

A few moments later RWR rang out im being painted. Set radar to range and activate jamming for a short burst to avoid tracking. Picked out both vipers and hornet. Got a good lock on the Vipers. Set to multiple engagement mode. Fox 3 all 4 in succession. Lead Viper and hornet was reduced to ash. but both number two escaped

 

 

Went for much closer viper and sent wingie over to the Bug.

 

The viper succumbed to a sparrow and died. the Hornet to sheer Game engine cheating. manages to evade 2 sparrows fired at It while not doing any evasive managed to send all of his AIM-120 in my direction. unfortunate for im all his missile missed and he forget wingie is after him.

[MigBuster 2,884]

well according to Grumman Engineer's(I wan't an F-14, Tomcat Sunset or MATS). The tomcat's airframe can take more than 11G's. Navy rated it to 6.5, they say to improve meantime Protect electronics and something.

 

You will find that the limits normally refer to sustained G - and the amount of G specified in design and what its been tested to. Most airframes can take way over the stated limits but for very short periods ( instantaneous G) - ie pull 11Gs for more than 2 seconds and very bad things start to happen - this will vary with airframe - but typical accounts of over G (such as engines coming out of mountings in F-4s) don't bode well.

 

Also taking airframe life time into account a lot of Gs on the F-16Ns didnt do them much good - look how quickly they were pulled out of service and thats with an actual 9G rated frame and a FLCS limiter - only 10 years:

 

http://www.f-16.net/..._article22.html

Edited February 6, 2013 by MigBuster

[saisran 84]

I fell asleep on my computer.. I was already high on medication when i posted my last post. please ignore it.

[+EricJ 4,246]

I think we've all done worse (I know I have) so no worries.

[macelena 1,070]

Even some of us never do better

 

 

 

Back on topic, i´ve been trying an scenario with the campaign customizer that had Iranian F-14s fighting on the Syrian side in the lebanon war (I know intraislamic politics would have made it unlikely) and i had mixed results, yet interesting:

 

Phoenixes are rather unpractical i guess due to the intensity of EW the Israelis deploy.

 

Tomcats, at the altitude at wich most combat happens, own the Eagles.

 

F-16s are to be downed from a distance, but they are not as much as a trouble as one could think. It may be like Phantoms Vs Frescos, for that matter, only that the big one is the one who should play for slow.

 

Also, any aircraft can own you in a moment of low situational awareness. I was about to engage a Kurnass flight when Kfirs flew from 9 o´clock, launched a salvo of IRMs and struck my whole 4 planes flight.

Edited February 7, 2013 by macelena

[+SupGen 79]

I fell asleep on my computer.. I was already high on medication when i posted my last post. please ignore it.

 

Now wait a minute...I'm supposed to just forget "that collection of parts that is the Hornet"; "the Cyrano de Bergerac nosed Eagle"? Oh no no...I am sorry madam, but you hit the nail too close to the head on both of those for me to let it go. The one thing that still sticks in my craw, above all else, is that the Viper, the Eagle, the Warthog, Et Al, are still in the inventory and the Tomcat is not...I could still strangle Dick Cheney in his sleep for that one.

[+EricJ 4,246]

Alright alright... yes we know of the decisions made, and from a personal perspective the Strike Eagle and Warthog were worth it. It's beyond us to determine what stays and what goes, hence the title "Game Only" portion of the topic, there's a forum elsewhere on the site to handle matters like this...

[Do335 382]

"the Cyrano de Bergerac nosed Eagle"

 

lol didn't realize that... i think my love on the F-15's look is ruined!!

 

heck the Eagle is still very potent today. compared to cat it's just different. if it's featured in a similar top gun movie i'm sure it'll be just popular!

 

 

btw the (apparently) go to vid of eagle for anyone who's yet seen. more of an ACT than dact tho. gotta love those brevity!

Edited February 7, 2013 by Do335

[Caesar 305]

I have to agree with Eric on this - we've gotten WAY off topic. I'd recommend bringing this back to in-game discussion for dissimilar air combat training missions and findings.

[Slartibartfast 153]

Okay Back to topic from me apologies guys no pictures on this one as it was rather intense...

 

My seat A-4M Guns + 6 Mk-82 Snakeyes Centreline 2 Tanks 2 LAU-3 rocket pods.

 

Opponents

 

2 x J-6 Guns

 

Place Taiwan Straits...

 

Right take off and flight set for a single jet strike so bombs and tanks on the Scooter target was a oil storage tank. Anyway these 2 jokers bounced me as I hauled of the target first indications were from the green glow balls flying past my poor little scooter... pulled up and cleaned dropping tanks etc. This was a classic bounce by the J-6's one was marginally high and the other was on my tail within around 1nm which for anyone is a problem especially with a J-6 thankfully their aim was awful... Okay this is a time when you cannot runaway and have to fight with what you have got which in my case was a pair of colts and 400 rounds of 20mm oh how I wished to be able to switch back to not carrying the rockets and carrying sidewinders...

 

Anyway after cleaning up and going fight on and fangs out the only advantage I had was err none I had around 450kt's and not a lot of height to play with as I was doing my usual low level approach 300 metres and below... turned into the first bad guys and the second comes down of his roost to take potshots at me by this point I am low and slow and not too happy flaps coming out to take off to help haul me round I squirt a few rounds at the second J-6 and manage to damage him but not kill as he zooms back to the sky I clean up the flaps and keep the engine firewalled and stay in as tight circle felt like a wagon wheel all of one with the 1st J-6 coming to take me to task which is not fun as he was booming and zooming thankfully still awful in the aiming department... problem here was that they had a nice base only a few miles away where as I had to fly all the way back to Taiwan! Back to the fight one eye on the fuel gauge and the other everywhere else the damaged guy comes back and copies his lead one comes down as I line up on the one who has just opened and zoomed out of it... still no good shot... as both of them seemed really happy at this and I know I cannot open fire with too much g on as it will jam the guns and I want to hit back with something other than harsh language... this basically was a circle fight with me timing my breaks on when they came down at me. I got another shot off at the number 2 and he limped away trailing fuel and flame but he had too much speed for me to get a kill. The problem was this had been going on for around 6 turns 7th turn was not my lucky one as I took a hit in the wing bird stayed in the air thankfully and no flames but it does not help out in the fuel department as I start leaking fuel as well but I am still managing just about to head for the coast in my circles. After what seems like forever I find I am now in a very used and batterd A-4 and the lead J-6 keeps on his booming and zooming but not firing so much now so I level wings and use the little height I have picked up to gain some speed and maybe turn the tables on the J-6 but this does not happen as I take a bunch of rounds and the A-4 comes apart...

 

What I did was mistime my level out and dive I thought I had time and space to do this as I had done the worst thing I could have I lost sight of the J-6 and he was further into his turn than I thought... Takeaways I lost this from some basic errors first I tried to gain height in a circle which killed my speed and kept me slow through the fight and I had bad energy management, and I lost sight after we got down to 1 v 1... Also I suspect I underestimated the J-6 and overestimated my ability with the A-4 (been awhile since I have been flying one)... Unfortunately this is one where you cannot run from the badguys...

 

Anyway next time out I will remember the camera...

[+EricJ 4,246]

Me: F-35A with 6 x AIM-9X, 2 AIM-120, gun

Opposition: Mig-29 with 4 x IRM, 2 x SARH

 

Started above him and when he came up decided to play around with him a bit. After he realized that I was there he began to dodge me. Realistically the only reason I fly the F-35A (and derivatives) is that me and MigBuster been PMing info back and forth, and a little help from Fubar512 on AoA settings was the basis for this DACT. So this whole thing will be more of a takeaway rather than a full blown description since the Mig-29 lawndarted into the ground so I didn't get a kill only mission success. Anyway, the more information I get on the LIghtning shows that the airplane is going to be good but as I told MigBuster, it'll never rock my socks so to speak as there are some issues with it. Despite the g limitation i never blocked out and with a max AoA of 50 degrees... had to take it out. But the gist is that it's great to handle and I was able to roll with the Mig until it decided to crash into the ground.

 

Me: F-35A with 8 x AIM-9X, 4 AIM-120, gun

Opposition: Mig-29 with 4 x IRM, 2 x SARH

 

This one was more "spirited" than the previous mission but also still with more work on the -35A. After the Mig detected me we went into some rolls and energy circles, and with the adjusted engine and AoA it truly felt like I could roll with the Fulcrum forever. However I get tired of such things and for the few times I had a bead on the Fulcrum, most of my 9Xs missed, either due to countermeasures or stoopidness. However, once the Mig-29 rolled ahead and leveled out, I shot him with a 9X and downed him.

 

Takeaways: Tweaking the F-35 with more published data is giving me an insight into the aircraft but since it's a game, then game-wise its getting there...

[+Brain32 265]

OK after this interesting discussion I tried some dissimilar stuff in game too.

In all cases targets were 2xF-14B, merge was at 3km, GUNS ONLY

 

Flight#1 - F-15C

Immediately after the merge I went vertical, AI responded by dumping all energy in a tight low speed turn, I applied some boom and zoom and quickly dispatched one. As that was way too easy I decided to dump some energy too and come down to play, here we ended up in rolling scissors AI again dumped speed too soon and after some barrel roll with pronounced vertical component from my part he quickly ended up ripped apart I had energy advantage at all time and complete control of the engagement.

Conclusion - In a gunfight AI is completely hopeless in vertical

 

Flight#2 - F-18C

Again after the merge I went sharply up again(this should be common sense right?) and made a split S on the closer one which ended up in a corkscrew where I quickly put him out. AI didn't bother to use speed advantage but just kept high alpha diving corkscrew which works like a charm for a Hornet.

But hey I left the other one up there right? He should just BnZ me to death right?

Nope.

He dived down and I quickly drove him into rolling scissors on the edge of a stall, few secs later - trrrrrrrr

Conclusion - A-what-I? No seriously they really don't understand vertical or even I would say basic advantages of their planes.

 

Flight#3 - F-16C blk30

Merge, bla,bla,some same ol stuff, noticed that F-16's roll rate totally kills it, fastest mission yet.

 

Flight#4 - MiG-29A

Basically applied same technique as in the Eagle but here something weird happened, last Tomcat actually went up - at worst possible moment as I was coming at him at vastly superior speed

AI is just totally hopeless in vertical fights I didn't eve know how much

 

Flight#5 - Su-27

Played out pretty similar to the F-18 mission except here I bested him in strait out tail chasing turn and burn fight.

 

Further explanations:

Notice one thing however the fight evolved all this success is based on the fact that AI responded extremely poorly to my initial vertical move, you notice how after the merge I always get in a position of advantage pretty quickly right? Well basically it's all about grabbing the E advantage after the merge as AI can not respond to that...

 

Note#1

- Fuel was kinda an issue in a Fulcrum

 

Note#2

- Russian cockpits are kind of cramped and gunnery is harder for some reason

 

Note#3

- Not that I'm bragging but I'm a really good shot with a gun which helps handling those 2vs1 situations.

[saisran 84]

TF-9J Cougar vs. Mig-17 Fresco an entire swarm of them!

 

A routine mission in a routine campaign. Went deep into commie territory and sent a couple of rockets to their Fuel Depot. Well the commies didn't like me blowing up their fuel reserves.

 

Mission completed and flying happily en route home. my wingman suddenly screamed. He just got shot down by a Fresco. Engine on full dove to the deck as tracers streams past. Quick map vie to check how many there are. 4 Migs directly on my tail and several other broke course and heads toward my six. This is no time for fighting Mig's as i dont think my Cougar can take on several squadrons on it's own. so i ran...

 

 

ran for an hour...

 

And some...

 

I ran for how many miles i couldn't tell as i was busy trimming grass, breaking left, breaking right. trying desperately to put distance from my self and the closest of the faster Mig. Just like a pack of wolves as one looses energy trying for a gun kill and climbing up to avoid hitting the ground. another Mig takes his position. Should i try to get on the offensive? nope the Cougar ain't really handles well for dog fight. So i ran hoping to ran into friendlies while Control keeps denying help..

 

Fortunately The cougar has a better mileage one by one the migs break pursuit and heads back. debug view shows they're running empty.

 

 

Still have 1k worth of fuel, more than enough for the Cougar. So i lined up one of the Damn Fresco and pulled the trigger.... Guns jammed. There they are my pursuers who tormented me for about two hours flying slow and straight and here i was eye on the piper and can't do nothing.

 

[MigBuster 2,884]

Still have 1k worth of fuel, more than enough for the Cougar. So i lined up one of the Damn Fresco and pulled the trigger.... Guns jammed. There they are my pursuers who tormented me for about two hours flying slow and straight and here i was eye on the piper and can't do nothing.

 

 

 

 

Maybe some justice in that!

[saisran 84]

Maybe some justice in that!

 

That is so unfair! :biggrin:

 

When Caesar does his guns only it all seems so easy. I on the other hand had to force a scissors just to get the faggot in front of my F-9J.

 

Did a strike mission solo as i'm running low on wingmen. The Iron on target was rather uneventful but on trip back i found myself being shot a Mig-15. Turned a one circle which ended up with me fruitlessly wasting energy which put me short of a half loop. The Mig was right in my tail sending cannon rounds up my tail. The cougar just takes too long to build energy departs easily if i turn lower than 130kts. I was were flying at about 2000ft at speeds of 200-300ish. it took about six or more reversals finally hit the airbrakes, rool to my right and pulled. the mig passed underneath and ended up slightly infront. rolled again in the other diretion retract brakes. drop flaps and pulled. Finger hard on the trigger as the mig passed in front sending sparks and smoke up my wind shield, my bullets shredding the Mig. yeah i pulled it off but that ain't easy.

 

The reversal leading to the Mig's demise...

[Caesar 305]

I think Brain brings up a good point and it's one I've exploited in the various gunfights I've done (including that 1v1 in the F-14A vs. the F-15C) is that using the vertical against the AI is a surefire way to get them in trouble with few exceptions. A few nights ago I went into a high-altitude fight against an F-16N in the F-14B, we were at about 30k feet, and I was above him. He wound up running out of energy, and started a horrendous pitch/push cycle, I rolled down on him and sawed him in half with the Vulcan. Since I've started fighting with the debug on as a kind of TACTS support, I've found out that what seems to be happening is that they are trying to pull to "lag persuit" but especially at either high altitudes or low airspeed, they hit the aircraft's stall line, which then changes the AI action to Stall Recovery. As they now have energy, they cycle back to lag persuit or defensive turn, pull hard, which runs them into the stall line again, and it switches back to Stall Recovery in an endless cycle until either the player aircraft shoots them down, or is no longer a threat due to distance or position.

 

I'm not sure why some aircraft do this more than others, the older F-5 performed this "death porpoise" cycle once you got on its six, while the new one doesn't (or it hasn't been prominent anyhow), the older CFM'd F-14 did, v2 very rarely. I don't usually see an F-15 or A-4 perform this cycle, nor the F-16 except at very high altitudes trying to pitch onto the player or wingman a/c like what happened a few nights ago.

 

The aircraft that usually follow me into the vertical without too much difficulty are the MiG-17, MiG-19 Field Mod and once in a while the Su-27, but this is rare. An F-14 has done it before while I was in the F-16 (illustrated last page), but it wasn't effective enough to threaten me.