Asking for advices about adding chaff/flares ejector

[+Cliff7600]

Hi

 

I'm currently editing a

"what-if the F-104 Starfighter had been a dedicated SEAD bird, converted in this role by a red side middle-east air force in the late 80's"

 

The first idea came from the MiG-23UB model. It was natural to add the actual chaff/flares ejector of the MiG-23/27 (BVP-50-60).

 

But how to do it with the F-104B?

I'm using the F-104S pylons

 

Options are :

_ an ordnance carried under a pylon (and I'll have to find which pylon) like ALE-38, SUU-14 or LAU-62.

_ the AN/ALE-37A stuck under each wing (like Mirage F1-CR)

_ include the ejector in the data.ini and paint the ejection holes on the skin textures

_ using the BVP-50-60 like it is on the Flogger, on the back (?)

 

Do you have an idea? :)

 

 

Another thing : I'm about to modify an AA missile to convert it to Anti Radiation Missile. The Kh-25 and Kh-27 are great but they're too big for the F-104.

Which one? AA-2 Atoll, AA-8 Aphid (very small head) or the western AIM-7? Maybe the AS-30 Martel?

AGM-45 Shrike seems to simple, not enough fictitious, but it may be the best choice.

 

Thanks

Cliff

[+Fubar512]

 

Another thing : I'm about to modify an AA missile to convert it to Anti Radiation Missile. The Kh-25 and Kh-27 are great but they're too big for the F-104.

Which one? AA-2 Atoll, AA-8 Aphid (very small head) or the western AIM-7? Maybe the AS-30 Martel?

AGM-45 Shrike seems to simple, not enough fictitious, but it may be the best choice.

 

Thanks

Cliff

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-122_Sidearm

[+Wrench]

should be a SideArm in the old BunnyPak

 

as for dispensers, have you looked at the F-104S and/or S-ASA-M mods available???

 

Zipper seems a poor choice for WW -- short legs and not (quite) enough ordanance.

 

btw, a lot of the KLU Gs had ECM boxes added late in their service life.

[Lexx_Luthor]

Oh this is interesting.

 

 

Western AIM-7: If your Red side is close to USSR, then maybe they can use the K-25 missile, which was to be a copy of the Sparrow, but the R-23 was made instead. Then use a re-skinned Shrike. The K-25 was never produced, but maybe could be produced as ARM by the Soviet and exported to your Red side.

 

 

If your Red side is not close to USSR, then they might could do it themselves with exported R-13s. Assume your Red side (or Soviets) could not pack electronics that small, but that already happened with R-13 originally which was larger than Sidewinder, so this might cancel out.

 

 

Another idea -- follow this -- make use of Lindr's K-9 missile which was a radar homing AAM for use by some prototype MiG interceptors like Ye-152A in the early 1960s. Have it enter USSR service converted to ARM by the early 1970s, and if exported as ARM could still be used by Red side in the late 1980s. I'm always of the opinion that we should use things that otherwise would not be used in "real life". K-9 looks "kewl" and that's half the idea right there. Download Lindr's missiles if you have not yet, and czech it out.

 

---

 

I'm looking for an ARM. My scenario is B-47s and B-36s flying over USSR, finding S-25 SAMs about 1956, but these will be installed in much smaller sites scattered across USSR to defend dispersed areas trying to hide from SAC and RAF Bomber Command. This is different than the historical giant S-25 complex at Moscow which Kruschev(sp?) accused of being the Moscow Palisades. It turned out to be a great missile with development, but never moved beyond the ring around Moscow.

 

Anyways, SAC and RAF will encounter this thing, and in a rush will have to field a supersonic ARM. At the time there was jet powered cruise missiles being developed to home in on surveillance and GCI radars, to be carried by B-50s and B-47s, but this ARM was subsonic (but had like, 300 mile range).

 

I figure that US and UK work together, kinda like in WW2, to rush an ARM and on the same platform generally. RAF uses Canberra and SAC uses B-57. The missile I selected is to take the Navy's early Bullpup off the design table and make it ARM. I call it GAM-79. BP is very big and bulky but this is a few years before Shrike started development so that fits. Being used from high altitude, I'm hoping that allows more range than the real thing, or trade warhead for fuel.

[+Cliff7600]

Thanks a lot!

 

I didn't know about these ARM missiles

 

The SideArm started in 1990.

The K-9 looks great but it's too big for the F-104.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Cliff11

[+Gepard]

Try the KH-25MP. Soviet made ARM missile for Su-22.

[+Cliff7600]

I've done some tests :)

 

Here's the Kh-27PS :

 

 

and the Kh-25MP :

 

 

They're quite similar. Both are excellent but they're big missiles (and the K-9 is even bigger!)

The 195gal drop tanks are needed under the same pylons.

I tried to fly with one drop tank and one missile but in hard mode it's too much difficult and at least 4 drop tanks give enough range (2x170+2x195).

 

I found the AGM-87 Focus which was a A2G Sidewinder in the 70's. Some have been fired in VietNam with IR headseeker against trucks by night.

I guess that it could have been modified as ARM in the 80's... They fit very well, as the 90's AGM-122 SideArm.

 

 

Still needs some chaffs/flares dispensers and a recon pod no more long than 1.8 meter.

The Orpheus is 2.45 meters long and the F-104 recon pod modded by Wrench is 3.3 m long.

It doesn't fit the F-104B because the nose wheel is retracting to the rear.

(and the 3D model is 1 meter too short ...it still remains awesome! no complain)

I don't find 1.8 m long drop tank to make the trick... any idea?

Edited June 5, 2011 by Cliff11

[+Wrench]

tank108_p51???? suitably repainted

[+Cliff7600]

You're totally right

 

It's exactly the tank that fits, thank you!

[Derk]

should be a SideArm in the old BunnyPak

 

 

btw, a lot of the KLU Gs had ECM boxes added late in their service life.

 

ECM boxes yes, but no chaff/flare dispensers. For those have a look at Ravenclaws Starfighters (at least the German Navy had them)

For further dispensers (downloadable as separate items) and also tanks have a look at NF 5A or F5A/ F5C, don't know the exact dimensions but both the wing and central pylon tanks are quite small. And how about F86 tanks ?

 

Houdoe,

 

Derk

Edited June 6, 2011 by Derk

[Lexx_Luthor]

Cliff::

I didn't know about these ARM missiles

 

Have you seen this? ~> http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/index.html

 

Also, there's a site called Astronautix that covers some Russian stupf too. but its buried deep. Look around for it. I can't easily get to my bank (ugh) my vault of links now.

 

ah...here... http://www.astronautix.com/

[+Cliff7600]

@Derk : Good idea for the F-5 and F-86 tanks.

I need another bombsigh......errr ...recon camera for 10 000ft, or maybe under 5000ft (2500ft? to avoid being a very easy target for SAMs).

They're good options to test.

 

@Lexx : Thanks for sharing your vault, plenty of knoweldge here!

Maybe new ideas to come.

 

Thanks guys