Brand new DM and FM now ready!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thank you, TSmoke. It is very gratifying to hear someone who generally doesn't use mods that they like one of your mods.

 

Incidentely, I am working on a revision to the DM that will hopefully reduce flamers a bit and further reduces the chances of a cable hit.

[Hellshade 110]

I'll volunteer to test it! Whoot. Fewer cable hits is a win for everyone. I bet it will be significantly harder still to take down planes then. The more manueverable the enemy AI stays, the harder it is to draw a bead on the vital areas of the plane to take them down.

 

Hellshade

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

And I volunteer to ask you to test it! I may have something in a day or two, so stay tuned.

[Creaghorn 10]

hello all,

 

i'm back and have to do some catchup reading as it seems.

 

maybe i missed it or HPW forgot to mention. his newest DM was tested and works best when gunspread is set to normal, not wide nor accurate.

 

if leaving bullet spread on wide, then it might happen that you see slowly dying flamers etc. not with bullet spread set on normal. so please, if trying out and commenting, then with bullet spread set to normal. that is giving the best and most realistic results.

 

 

p.s.

 

the bullet strengths file is actually not a "mod", i was just tweaking with impact figures, setting them lower. my feeling is that if the impact damage is reduced (similarly to bletchleys reduced flak impact), then the bullet won't parasite from the agility of you or AI so much. nonetheless when a thresholdvalue is reached, then something severe happens. maybe just placebo, but that's my impression. the main mod is HPW's DM and please use normal gun spread.

[Olham 164]

I have "main guns" set to "normal" always, and I still had Jasta 2 ace Frommherz flying around as

an endless flamer yesterday, Creaghorn. Do I miss something? Is there another setting you mean?

[+elephant 36]

So do I, and still see "flamers".

But, I think that HPW is already working on an update for th DM mod, that will eliminate the problem.

[Hellshade 110]

Setting guns to normal won't take care of the flammers. Creaghorn is just saying that the most realistic combat experience takes place when your guns are set to normal. HPW is indeed working on an update to try and get rid of some of the eternally flying flaming planes along with making cables stronger, etc. I look forward to it very much.

 

Hellshade

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Still working on the update. I've noticed that almost all of the flamers in the current DM come from hitting the engine. Therefore, I'm trying to decrease the chances of an engine flamer and to slightly increase the chance of a fuel tank flamer. I've also added a fuel leak just after either an engine fire or a fuel tank fire to (hopefully) shorten the length of time a plane that is on fire will stay in the air.

 

The other significant change is a reduction in hit probability to all cables from 20% to 5%. The original stock setting was 100%!

 

The mod should be ready for testing after I have flown a few more missions to help me evaluate the changes.

[+Winder 32]

Hi Guys,

 

As promised I looked into modding P3/CFS3 to ignore the MP online validity checks and alas I have to report that it is not a quick fix.

 

I simply do not have the time nor the resources to implement and test a change of this magnitude.

 

Remember MP online validity checks are important so understand why its there...

 

However all is not doom and gloom - you should be able to mod OFFIV craft without this kind of hassle - IOW I will endeavor to make the required changes for P4 - as it will be thorougly tested in beta.

 

 

HTH

 

WM

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thank you for looking into this, Winder. While I am, of course, disappointed, I completely understand that you are deep into the development of P4 and do not have time to implement this fix in P3. I look forward to seeing your solution when P4 comes out.

[Hellshade 110]

Totally understandably Winder. We appreciate you focusing on making P4 the best possible experience all the way around. For most of us, P3 will be a distant memory the moment P4 shows up on our hard drives. Your time, efforts and talents are put to best use on P4.

 

Hellshade

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Hello, gang!

 

I'm almost finished tweaking and testing an update for the DM and hope to have it released on Sunday.

 

Most of my work has been spent working on a fix for the "perpetual flying flamers bug." While I have not been able to completely stomp out the bug, I feel I have made good progress reducing it and making it less noticeable. While not guaranteed, aircraft that catch on fire seem more likely to go out of control now.

 

Other changes involve an increase to the hit points for the ailerons and wing-tips, along with adjustment to the threshold values so that damage effects and the final "break" command are roughly the same as in version 1.0. Cable hit probabilities have been reduced so that hits to rudder, elevator, and aileron cables should be much rarer now. Hit probabilities to the landing gear have also been reduced. The overall result should be both AI and human controlled planes that remain almost as maneuverable just before total failure as they are when they are undamaged, making for longer and more intense dogfights. Aircraft that have been hit only a couple of times and totally stop maneuvering should now be much rarer unless the pilot has been disabled.

 

Finally, one miscellaneous change involving the Spad VII and XIII to increase the wing hit points so they are not so easy prey anymore.

 

I hope that this will be the last of my DM updates for awhile. With the fix to the flamers problem, I think the DM is absolutely my best effort yet. I hope you will enjoy flying with it.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Oh, I almost forgot to mention. Stay tuned for a special announcement involving an addition to the FM involving the Spad series that Panama Red and I have been working on. Many of you will remember Panama Red from his fantastic work on the FM for Red Baron 3D. He has agreed to help me out in developing and testing several more additions to the FM. Our first project involves the Spad VII and XIII, which currently only have two FM models. I won't say anything more about that until a little later. :wink:

[Javito1986 14]

Looking forward to seeing it HPW, thanks so much for all your efforts. Now we all have to ensure our pilots survive until Sunday so they can benefit from the update

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Update 1.1 to the HPW Ultimate Damage Model has been submitted to the administrators for approval and should be available soon for download. Here is a list of some of the major changes to version 1.1:

 

• --Forever flying flamers bug squashed (mostly).
• --Hit probabilities for aileron, elevator, and rudder cables reduced substantially so that hits to cables should be much less frequent than before. Hit points for all cables also increased slightly.
• --Hit probabilities to pilot and center fuel tank adjusted slightly.
• --Hit points for ailerons increased by approximately 150% and threshold values adjusted.
• --Minor increase in wing tip strength.
• --Hit probability to landing gear reduced by 50%.
• --Minor adjustments to threshold values for engine, oil reservoir, and center fuel tank.
• --For DH5 only, chance of fire and explosion to auxillary fuel tank removed and replaced with fuel leaks.
• --For Spad VII and Spad XIII only, increased wing hit points by approximately 5% to reflect sturdy reputation of Spad series.

The most important changes are the fix for the flamers bug and the increase in aileron strength. Installation with JSGME is the same as before. You may wish to disable and delete the original version of the damage mod after you have installed this new version. Please let me know if you have any questions or problems. Happy flying!

Edited July 31, 2011 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Olham 164]

--Minor adjustments to threshold values for engine, oil reservoir, and center fuel tank.

Thank you for your work, HPW.

What does the above mean - is it strengthening the engine?

Cause, I have noticed, that the Albatros engine is still getting demolished on almost every attack

on two-seaters, even though I am usually only receiving 2-3 rounds.

But the engine is always getting hit, and very often destroyed.

 

I read, that the fighter pilots went pretty close in their attacks on two-seats, but I didn't read that their engines

got destroyed anywhere near as often, doing that.

Rear guns are already set to "less accurate" in "Workshops".

So I guess the engine-damage hit box was still too large.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Olham

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I did not increase the engine hit points, although I did some adjustments to the threshold values so the engines may be a tiny bit tougher than before. I also prefer to use my reduced accuracy rear-gunner mod to make two-seater attacks a little less risky, though still very difficult.

 

If you wish to use my rear gunner mod, you will have to install a second version of JSGME in your OBDSoftware folder in addition to the one already in your OBDSoftware\CFSWWI Over Flanders Fields folder. A second copy will not interfere with your installation of OFF. You just have to remember where to put the appropriate mods!

Edited July 31, 2011 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Hellshade 110]

It posted and I have already downloaded it and tried a couple of missions. My N17 flying for RNAS 8 met a group of Halb DIIs (I didn't turn on labels so I don't know which squadron they were from) and had quite a good dogfight. I was only able to score one kill for certain, with a possible second, which I didn't see crash. We lost a couple of squadronmates but we ended up getting the better of the huns on that day. It's only been two missions, but so far I love the work. Excellent job HPW. Thanks for all that you do.

 

Hellshade

[Olham 164]

I think it would be enough, if you could drastically reduce the engine hit-points, HPW.

And I mean, by 75%.

So, if there are only 4 hit points now, it should have only one.

No joke - the engine is getting damaged almost every time I attack a two-seater.

And since I know that the RL flyers went pretty close, and had engines damaged rather rarely,

this is totally distorted.

[Hellshade 110]

Do you mean reduce the size of the engine hit box or the probability of it being hit, Olham?

 

Hellshade

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

The more hit points, the "tougher" the component, so I don't think he means he wants me to reduce the hit points. Without expertise in GMax, I can't do anything with the size of the hitboxes, so that is up to the devs for now. I'm also not sure about reducing the hit probability, because that risks making it too hard to get hits on the engine and making the aircraft hard to destroy.

 

I do know that my DM has done nothing to make the engines less sturdy or easier to hit--in fact, it should be the opposite, so I'm not sure why Olham seems to be having such difficulty against the two-seaters. Perhaps because the two-seaters are also tougher to shoot down means that you have to remain in their line of fire longer, so a greater chance of them hitting you?

[SirMike1983 3]

Flew a mission tonight, shot down two Fokkers and damaged a third with none of the prolonged flamers. Both kills were "quiet" ones-- appeared to be killed pilots and the planes spun into the ground after a few bursts each. I'm hoping the mission is indicative that he flamer issue is locked down. I'm liking the FM/DM in this version.

[33LIMA 972]

The more hit points, the "tougher" the component, so I don't think he means he wants me to reduce the hit points. Without expertise in GMax, I can't do anything with the size of the hitboxes, so that is up to the devs for now. I'm also not sure about reducing the hit probability, because that risks making it too hard to get hits on the engine and making the aircraft hard to destroy.

 

I do know that my DM has done nothing to make the engines less sturdy or easier to hit--in fact, it should be the opposite, so I'm not sure why Olham seems to be having such difficulty against the two-seaters. Perhaps because the two-seaters are also tougher to shoot down means that you have to remain in their line of fire longer, so a greater chance of them hitting you?

 

I would have thought that attacking a 2-seater from close range anywhere in the cone of fire of the observer, if the 2-seater wasn't stunting, SHOULD result in the attacker getting a good dose of lead somewhere, more often than not. Which is why the drill was to attack from under the tail, and stay there (many will have seen the RFC/RAF training poster showing how to turn first in the opposite direction if a 2-seater you attacked this way turned, so you would stay in his blind spot, before turning back in). The observer's moveable gun(s) would often be more than a match for the attacker's fixed gun(s) - easier to aim, all things taken into account. Some aces like McCudden are on record as believing a well-handled 2-seater was more than a match for a scout (and we're not talking Bristol Fighters here). Attacking two or more alert 2-seaters flying in formation would be quite dangerous for a single scout (apart from BE2c's, tho in OFF the lack of realistic defensive armament means they are too easy). Massacres like the 6 RE8's attacked & shot down by Jasta 11 in Bloody April were the exception not the rule. Many 2-seaters shot down were surprised while the observer was occupied with his work, they were not just air gunners but had to spot for the artillery, or take photos, or carry out visual recce's. Using OFF Manager to minimise gunner accuracy is probably a crude-but-reasonably-effective way of allowing for this sort of thing, albeit indirectly.

 

So I'm not sure the (stock?) DM is at fault here (apart from the engine sometimes falling out of the often-intact airframe, which I have seen regularly in the Albatros). I have flown many sims which are much worse for 'sniper' rear gunners like IL2, CFS2 (and 3 to an extent) and B17-2.

Edited August 1, 2011 by 33LIMA

[Creaghorn 10]

in real downing twoseaters was always considered tougher than downing scouts (contrary to the knighthood-movie-romance-blah myth that it was easier and less honorable than against scouts). especially when surprising the scouts, while it was tougher to surprise twoseaters.

if you are in the line of fire, behind him, then the chance to get a hit into the engine is big because you mostly offer the observer your front.

that's why they wether stayed in the blind spot or they dove from above shooting and turning away immediately, then repeat the manouver several times, often with more attackers. good example is in hell's angels when they attacked the bomber in the dogfightscene. both variants and tactics are shown there. first the wolvelike group attack and than the swoop from below.

but, if you are in the gunners line of fire, your engine might suffer, if not or just as long as necessary, than not.

[+Polovski 460]

Just for the record, the engine hit box is often the same or even slightly smaller than the actual engine as it is in each craft and it's considered to other parts around it.

 

It doesn't make sense Olham as the whole point of HPW's mod is to make engines much tougher (as we used to have it).