Brand new DM and FM now ready!

[Olham 164]

Thank you for the new SPAD FM, Herr Prop-Wasche - I will test them at least as opponents soon.

Later I also intend to create a new SPAD campaign pilot.

 

Your install advice was a bit confusing, or I did something wrong:

when I move the 5 SPAD folders over into MODS, I don't see your txt.file there.

 

One question now: I guess, one must decide, if one uses the one or the other SPAD -

always only one can be activated?

Which brings me to another question: which versions were used when?

[Panama Red 22]

Olham:

You should only activate only ONE SPAD VII and ONE SPAD 13 at a time in the JSGME. If you have two SPAD VII activated at the same time, the second one will overwrite the first SPAD VII. The same is true withe SPAD 13s, activate only one of the three SPAD 13s at once. Remember, the particular SPAD VII or SPAD 13 FM that you activate in JSGME is used by all the SPADs of the that particular type in the game, not just your squadron.

 

Obvously the fist SPAD VII that reached the front lines is the 150 HP, which will eventually be replaced with the SPAD VII 180 HP (for the rest of the war).

 

The first SPAD 13 was the 200 HP, whci was replaced by the SPAD 13 220 HP and finally the SPAD 13 235 HP at the end of the war.

 

The way you use them is detailed as such:

 

As an *approximate* guide to when each aircraft and engine upgrade entered service, please see the following chart:

 

Approximate Aircraft Entered Service:

Spad VII 150 February 1917 (start or default)

Spad VII 180 June 1917*

Spad XIII 200 January 1918 (start or default)

Spad XIII 220 April 1918*

Spad XIII 235 August 1918*

 

In order to simulate when a particular squad might have recieved their engine updgrade, I recommend that on the first of each month marked with an asterik, the player should roll a six-sided die. If you roll a number equal to or higher than the following guide, your squad gets the upgrade and you can install the newer engine.

If not, at the beginning of each following week, roll the die again until you obtain the upgrade. (If you wish, you may add +1 to each roll if you are in an elite squad).

 

Week Roll

One 6

Two 5,6

Three 4,5,6

Four+ 3,4,5,6

Edited August 6, 2011 by Panama Red

[Hasse Wind 46]

Is the date for the 150 hp version correct? Weren't they in service already in the final months of 1916, even as early as August or September 1916?

 

EDIT: The Aerodrome gives 2 September 1916 as the date for the SPAD VII.

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/france/spad_vii.php

Edited August 6, 2011 by Hasse Wind

[Panama Red 22]

I told HPW when he was making this mod that the BIGGEST disagreement will be the Front Lines Service dates. As I told HPW, there are a lot of dates out there so he if you noticed, he stated Approximate in the mod.

 

The dates came from the "French Aircraft of the First World War" by Flying Machines Press and it says that SPAD VII 150 HPs were being produced starting "late 1916 and a total of 24 had been delivered by September of that year. From October through December 143 were built." But under the OPERATIONAL SERVICE section on the SPAD VII, "By 25 February 1917 the number of SPAD fighters delivered was 268." Later is says "The first aircraft to arrive at the front included a single example sent to N49 on 7 November 1916 followed by a second machine sent to N49 in December, It is interesting to note that there was no attempt to equip an entire escadrille with SPAD 7s. Rather, a few examples were sent to each unit and when, during 1917 enough machines were delivered, the escadrille would change its designation to SPA"

 

As a result, it is not the macufacturing of the planes that count here, but when they became operational in the front lines. This is why there is a later date for the SPADs at the squadron level than when they are first manufactured.

 

But since thia is only a game, you are free to activate them any time you want.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Panama Red

[Hasse Wind 46]

Of course the introduction of all aircraft is dictated by the OFF manager, so we'll get the first SPADs when the manager says so. I can't remember the exact date for the SPAD VII in OFF, but it's definitely somewhere in late 1916.

 

It would be a nightmare to try to get every single date correct, I imagine. Even history books disagree with the dates in many cases. Somebody would have to read through all the war diaries of French fighter escadrilles to find out the dates when certain aircraft came into service, and how many of them there were. I'm sure that would be interesting reading, but maybe a bit too time consuming for sim development purposes.

[Panama Red 22]

Of course the introduction of all aircraft is dictated by the OFF manager, so we'll get the first SPADs when the manager says so. I can't remember the exact date for the SPAD VII in OFF, but it's definitely somewhere in late 1916.

 

It would be a nightmare to try to get every single date correct, I imagine. Even history books disagree with the dates in many cases. Somebody would have to read through all the war diaries of French fighter escadrilles to find out the dates when certain aircraft came into service, and how many of them there were. I'm sure that would be interesting reading, but maybe a bit too time consuming for sim development purposes.

 

You and I are in 100% agreement in every thing you say above.

[33LIMA 972]

The 150HP SPAD 7 was definitely at the front from late August 1916 and in action from at least September. See Squadron Signal 'SPAD Fighters in Action', for one; while Osprey's 'SPAD XII/XIII Aces of WW1' gives as December 1916 the date of Georges Guynemer's letter to SPAD designer Louis Béchereau in which Guynemer said 'The 150HP SPAD is not a match for the Halberstadt' . The former records that Guynemer flew the SPAD for the first time on 4 September and that Lt Pinsard got the first SPAD kill on 26 August with one of the first production machines. Like the SPAD XIII its rate of entry into service would have been limited for some time by the many problems affecting both production and service (like the radiator makers running out of raw materials in October) but SPAD 7s were flying and fighting in Autumn 1916.

 

Unless I'm flying a SPAD myself I'll stick to the 150HP and 200HP versions, will help rein in those AI flying without fuel or ammo loads.

 

Another good mod HPW!

Edited August 6, 2011 by 33LIMA

[Olham 164]

Okay, that is a fine chart for me to use, thank you, Panama Red !

According to Wikipedia, the early SPAD VII still had problems (engine overheating; gun jams),

and the improved version came early 1917. But some got delivered from August 1916 on.

 

I also agree, that the OFF Manager should decide, which craft appeared when.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Olham

[Panama Red 22]

Olham:

The OFF Manager only states when the SPAD VII (150 HP) or SPAD XIII (200 HP) appears, unfortunately it does not give us when the SPAD VII 180 HP, SPAD XIII 220 HP or SPAD XIII 235 HP appears . That is why you have to look at those dates, roll the dice and install the upgraded SPADs.

 

I sure hope the Devs put these planes into P4 since they have the varous upgraded Albatrosses in the game, but ignored the SPADs (German bias ???)

[Olham 164]

The OFF Manager only states when the SPAD VII (150 HP) or SPAD XIII (200 HP) appears, unfortunately it does not give us

when the SPAD VII 180 HP, SPAD XIII 220 HP or SPAD XIII 235 HP appears . That is why you have to look at those dates,

roll the dice and install the upgraded SPADs.

Yes, I had understood that. Will do.

 

I sure hope the Devs put these planes into P4 since they have the varous upgraded Albatrosses in the game,

but ignored the SPADs (German bias ???)

No, there is no German bias - I had sometimes seen it exactly the other way round, but I guess, they tried to balance it.

As the Albatros productionwise was a main aircraft (the Messerschmidt Bf 109 of WW1 so to say), they had to create

all versions, as they were always in service in great numbers.

 

Here are the fighters each nationality can fly in OFF so far - you see, that the Germans are not biased (much rather the British):

 

BRITISH

Bristol Scout

Sopwith Strutter 1B1

FE2b

Airco DH-2

Nieuport 11

Sopwith Pup

Nieuport 16

Nieuport 17 Lewis

Bristol F2b

Sopwith Triplane

SPAD VII

Nieuport 24 Lewis

DH-5

S.E.5a

S.E.5a Viper

Sopwith Camel

 

GERMAN

Fokker E.III

Roland C.II

Halberstadt D.II

Albatros D.II

Albatros D.III

Albatros D.V

Fokker Dr.1

Pfalz D.IIIa

Albatros D.Va

Albatros D.Va 200

Fokker D.VII

Fokker E.V

Foker D.VII F

 

FRENCH

Nieuport 11

Nieuport 16

Sopwith Strutter 1B1

Nieuport 17

SPAD VII

Nieuport 24

SPAD XIII

 

AMERICAN

Nieuport 17

Nieuport 28

SPAD VII

Sopwith Camel

SPAD XIII

Edited August 6, 2011 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Well, there's definitely no French bias.

[Olham 164]

That's also true, I think. The French will now get the early Morane-Saulnier.

Apart from those early Morane types I don't see another French fighter missing anymore.

But I hope they will also get one or two of the many two-seater types they had, like the Caudron or the Breguet.

 

The British will get another good fighter with the Snipe.

I wonder what we Germans will be given - a Siemens-Schuckert D.III or D.IV would be great, or a Roland D.II, D.III or D.VI.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thank you for the new SPAD FM, Herr Prop-Wasche - I will test them at least as opponents soon.

Later I also intend to create a new SPAD campaign pilot.

 

Your install advice was a bit confusing, or I did something wrong:

when I move the 5 SPAD folders over into MODS, I don't see your txt.file there.

 

One question now: I guess, one must decide, if one uses the one or the other SPAD -

always only one can be activated?

Which brings me to another question: which versions were used when?

 

Did you get answers for your questions yet, Sir?

 

The text file will not show up in the mods folder unless you also copy it and place it there. It sounds like you have the Spads in all the right places, though. And Panama Red is correct, you can only have one version of the Spad VII and one version of the Spad 13 activated at one time. (You can have both one Spad VII and one Spad XIII active at the same time, of course).

 

For when which versions were used when, please refer to the readme file.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I told HPW when he was making this mod that the BIGGEST disagreement will be the Front Lines Service dates. As I told HPW, there are a lot of dates out there so he if you noticed, he stated Approximate in the mod.

 

The dates came from the "French Aircraft of the First World War" by Flying Machines Press and it says that SPAD VII 150 HPs were being produced starting "late 1916 and a total of 24 had been delivered by September of that year. From October through December 143 were built." But under the OPERATIONAL SERVICE section on the SPAD VII, "By 25 February 1917 the number of SPAD fighters delivered was 268." Later is says "The first aircraft to arrive at the front included a single example sent to N49 on 7 November 1916 followed by a second machine sent to N49 in December, It is interesting to note that there was no attempt to equip an entire escadrille with SPAD 7s. Rather, a few examples were sent to each unit and when, during 1917 enough machines were delivered, the escadrille would change its designation to SPA"

 

As a result, it is not the macufacturing of the planes that count here, but when they became operational in the front lines. This is why there is a later date for the SPADs at the squadron level than when they are first manufactured.

 

But since thia is only a game, you are free to activate them any time you want.

 

I win! You said it would only take five posts before someone questioned me about the service dates for the Spads. Since it was the sixth post, you owe me a virtual beer! Of course, the fact that your reply to Olham was the fifth post, making Hasse Wind's post the sixth, only adds a delicious element of irony to the tale.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Of course the introduction of all aircraft is dictated by the OFF manager, so we'll get the first SPADs when the manager says so. I can't remember the exact date for the SPAD VII in OFF, but it's definitely somewhere in late 1916.

 

It would be a nightmare to try to get every single date correct, I imagine. Even history books disagree with the dates in many cases. Somebody would have to read through all the war diaries of French fighter escadrilles to find out the dates when certain aircraft came into service, and how many of them there were. I'm sure that would be interesting reading, but maybe a bit too time consuming for sim development purposes.

 

Absolutely right, HW! The Spad VII and the Spad XIII aircraft come to the front when the OFF Manager dictates when they come to the front, and not before. In the game, the earliest Spad VII to be delivered to a squadron is in September of 1916, I think, and the first Spad XIII is delivered in December, 1917. Of course, it is then up to you to activate the Spad VII 150 HP or the Spad XIII 200 HP version (or other version of your choice) at those times.

 

Note that you can activate the early Spad versions at any time before the above dates and it will have no impact on your game. Just don't forget to "upgrade" when the approximate time for a new engine arrives.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

The 150HP SPAD 7 was definitely at the front from late August 1916 and in action from at least September. See Squadron Signal 'SPAD Fighters in Action', for one; while Osprey's 'SPAD XII/XIII Aces of WW1' gives as December 1916 the date of Georges Guynemer's letter to SPAD designer Louis Béchereau in which Guynemer said 'The 150HP SPAD is not a match for the Halberstadt' . The former records that Guynemer flew the SPAD for the first time on 4 September and that Lt Pinsard got the first SPAD kill on 26 August with one of the first production machines. Like the SPAD XIII its rate of entry into service would have been limited for some time by the many problems affecting both production and service (like the radiator makers running out of raw materials in October) but SPAD 7s were flying and fighting in Autumn 1916.

 

Unless I'm flying a SPAD myself I'll stick to the 150HP and 200HP versions, will help rein in those AI flying without fuel or ammo loads.

 

Another good mod HPW!

 

Thank you for the information, Lima. I can use the Guynemer quote to further tweak the Spad and Halberstadt (if needed) in order to reflect his opinion.

 

Yes, the 150 and 200 versions can give you more of a fighting chance if you are still flying a DIII early, or DV respectively.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

 

The British will get another good fighter with the Snipe.

I wonder what we Germans will be given - a Siemens-Schuckert D.III or D.IV would be great, or a Roland D.II, D.III or D.VI.

If we don't get one of those aircraft, we will have to start a campaign like Widowmaker did to get his Snipe!

 

Siemens-Schuckert, Siemens-Schuckert, Siemens-Schuckert, Siemens-Schuckert!!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I win! You said it would only take five posts before someone questioned me about the service dates for the Spads. Since it was the sixth post, you owe me a virtual beer! Of course, the fact that your reply to Olham was the fifth post, making Hasse Wind's post the sixth, only adds a delicious element of irony to the tale.

 

I hope you enjoy your beer.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I vill, I vill, hee hee!

 

Siemens-Schuckert, Siemens-Schuckert, Siemens-Schuckert!!

[Olham 164]

"Iss ziss ze Western Front, or a Kindergarten?!?!"

 

(Roland D.VI ! Roland D.VI ! Roland D.VI!!!)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

You know what the difference is between the Western Front and Kindergarten?

 

... guns ...

 

 

hee hee hee, I crack myself up

 

.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I dunno, Lou. Have you been to any Kindergartens in the 'hood? Yikes!

Edited August 7, 2011 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Olham 164]

I dunno, Lou. Have you been to any Kindergartens in the 'hood? Yikes!

That's what I was going to say, HPW!

The difference may be, that the guns in the Kindergarten are more modern.

Mmuahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!

[Panama Red 22]

I win! You said it would only take five posts before someone questioned me about the service dates for the Spads. Since it was the sixth post, you owe me a virtual beer! Of course, the fact that your reply to Olham was the fifth post, making Hasse Wind's post the sixth, only adds a delicious element of irony to the tale.

 

The funny thing is the moment I posted my reply, I knew I had lost the bet, but I thought helping Olham was more important. But a bet is a bet, so here is your virtual beer and thanks again for the SPADs.