Nieuports 10 and 12 in progress

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

Since the planes are so similar, I'm going back and forth and working on them simultaneously. The 10 is a single seater with a Lewis gun on the upper deck. The 12 is a two seater with a gun on the top and an Etévé ring mount for the Lewis gun in the back.

 

I had to fudge a little on the Etévé mount to make it look right when it moved. The Scarff ring would have been easier to make, but it hadn't been invented yet. Tell me what you think.

 

The 10:

 

 

The 12:

 

The gun mount:

[+whiteknight06604 932]

that is just sick! That gun mount is insane too.I will be looking forward to this one.many many thanks.

[+ojcar 157]

Well, time to reading some books and collect data.....

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

that is just sick! That gun mount is insane too.I will be looking forward to this one.many many thanks.

 

I hope you mean that in a good way!

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

Well, time to reading some books and collect data.....

 

I appreciate your help Ojcar. It will be a while before the Nieuports are ready, I haven't even animated the control surfaces yet.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

oh yes most definatly in a good way! ;)

[33LIMA 972]

VERY nice indeed!

 

Hope the following observations may be helpful.

 

The little fillet behind the cowling each side looks a bit big, most pics I've seen show it a fair bit smaller.

 

The Etévé mount looks very good apart from the circular base ring being raised above the cockpit sides.

 

From all the pics I have seen, the cockpit on both the 10 and the 12 2-seaters was a single, 'communal' one (like the Halberstadt CLIII) and did not have the curved 'decking' between them which is visible in the model pics.

 

The Nieu 10 could be a two seater or a single seater, and could have the observer in front (Nieu10AV) or to the rear (10AR) so you could make a 2-seater 10 as well if you wanted, and even with alternative observer positions.

 

Would be nice to have the centre-section in the 12 with 'transparent' covering to make a point of difference with the 10; the Crowood book on Nieuports says most 12's had this because they had the pilot in front from the start where visibility was not too good.

 

Another possibility would be to give the 12 a Nieuport 17-style full cowling (without the little tri-angular fillet each side) which would add another point of difference and make the 12 look a bit more modern and more attractive.

 

Lovely model and a good choice of plane, which suits both AMF and RFC.

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

The little fillet behind the cowling each side looks a bit big, most pics I've seen show it a fair bit smaller.

 

The Etévé mount looks very good apart from the circular base ring being raised above the cockpit sides.

 

From all the pics I have seen, the cockpit on both the 10 and the 12 2-seaters was a single, 'communal' one (like the Halberstadt CLIII) and did not have the curved 'decking' between them which is visible in the model pics.

 

The Nieu 10 could be a two seater or a single seater, and could have the observer in front (Nieu10AV) or to the rear (10AR) so you could make a 2-seater 10 as well if you wanted, and even with alternative observer positions.

 

Would be nice to have the centre-section in the 12 with 'transparent' covering to make a point of difference with the 10; the Crowood book on Nieuports says most 12's had this because they had the pilot in front from the start where visibility was not too good.

 

Another possibility would be to give the 12 a Nieuport 17-style full cowling (without the little tri-angular fillet each side) which would add another point of difference and make the 12 look a bit more modern and more attractive.

 

Thanks for your comments 33Lima.

 

I don't know what you mean by: "The little fillet behind the cowling each side ..."

 

I had to compromise on the Etévé mount and that affected the fuselage a little. In real life, the vertical bars on the Etévé moved back and forth as the gun was raised. I couldn't get the game to animate the gun mount so I fudged it. I made the "u" bar a little longer so it wouldn't disconnect from the vertical bars too much when the gun is raised. That meant I had to make the base stick out more than it should. And that intersected the fuselage when the gun turned, so I had to raise it up.

 

 

This photo of a Nieuport 12 is from Windsock and it shows a deck between the two cockpits. With the Etévé mount, this was removed to mount the ring. I sort of crossed the two to make mine work. It's the best I can do.

 

I have planned for windows in the upper wing, but I haven't made them yet.

 

There's a lot of potential for variations, but I'll finish these two first...

 

Thanks for your observations, and let me know what you mean by "the fillet"

 

Stephen1918

[33LIMA 972]

Hi Stephen

 

by the little fillet I meant the 'triangular' metal fitting behind the cowling each side, that sort of blends the cowl into the fuselage and may be a duct. It looks noticeably more conspicuous on the model compared to the pics. Possibly it's just my imagination, no big deal.

 

The Windsock pic is the only one I've seen with the decking between the cockpits. In the Crowood book none of the 2-seater 10s or the 12s have it. I wonder if decking was unusual. The other thing compared to the Windsock pic is that none of the Crowood pics show the wire brace between the rear centre section struts having the apex pointing down - all have it pointing up, to the upper wing, as per pics 1 & 2 below, of early 2-seater 10s with the hole in the top wing for the observer. And later-production 10s, and all the 12's pictured, have that triangular brace replaced by a roughly semi-circular hoop between the struts, as per pic 3 below, stated as being done to provide easier access to the front cockpit because of a change in aileron control lever position, and changing the triangular brace would be rather defeated by having the decking in place. So I wonder if that Windsock pic is a unusual example, Or perhaps the Crowood pics are unrepresentative.

 

If you had the cockpit entirely open between the vertical sides, the front of the pilot's position and the rear of the observer's position, as per these pics, ie no decking at all around the cockpit, just a 'bath-tub' you might not need to elevate the ring of the Etévé mount. Again, no big deal.

 

Anyway another lovely plane, two more in fact, great work already!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

Hi Stephen

 

by the little fillet I meant the 'triangular' metal fitting behind the cowling each side, that sort of blends the cowl into the fuselage and may be a duct. It looks noticeably more conspicuous on the model compared to the pics. Possibly it's just my imagination, no big deal.

 

 

I see what you mean, and I agree, that part is too long. I'm assuming it was a vent for the cowling, so I've left the bottom open. I'll try and trim it down.

 

As for the fuselage, the picture I showed was an early model, and they probably changed it pretty fast. Looking at my resources, I see that most of them did not have the curved deck between the cockpits, although one or two did. I guess I just spotted it a incorparated it because it made the Etévé ring look better. I'll see what I can do. (But I'll leave it the way it is if I can't come up with anything better.)

 

Thanks for pointing these things out.

 

Stephen1918

[+whiteknight06604 932]

thats the problem and the facinatin part of WWI aircraft. so many variations and so many field mods and so little documentation.everytime I look at the Nieuport 10 I find a new "favorite version ;) I'm loving what you have done so far.

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

Here's the latest version of the 12. I've added the windows in the upper wing, trimmed down the vent (fillet) behind the cowling, and changed the area around the cockpits. I still can't get the Etévé ring to sit flush like it should, but this is believable.

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

thats the problem and the facinatin part of WWI aircraft. so many variations and so many field mods and so little documentation.everytime I look at the Nieuport 10 I find a new "favorite version ;) I'm loving what you have done so far.

 

I know what you mean, it seems like they were always experimenting with the planes. There is quite a bit of variation in all the planes I've looked at so far. It can be frustrating sometimes to build a plane, but it also leaves a little room for fudging, as long as it's believable. I try to make my planes accurate, but I have exercised a little "artistic license" in all of them.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Stephen1918

[+whiteknight06604 932]

nothing in life is perfect,but with some hard work and research some beautiful and pretty damn accurate stuff can be made.so far all of your works fall into that catagory.

[+quack74 329]

Awsome stuff! With these new Nieuports I'm feeling an "Eastern Front" campaign coming on. There are plenty of planes for it now. Need to load up on Ace and skins info.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

thinking that too. I just wish we had a terrain guru who was willing to make an eastern front and Austro-Italian map.

[33LIMA 972]

Brilliant Stephen, looking really well!

[Nixou 25]

Excellent news stephen!! Was dreaming of this since ages

[+whiteknight06604 932]

your most likely aware of this site but there is some decent info and drawing here http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_10.html

[+Stephen1918 1,473]

your most likely aware of this site but there is some decent info and drawing here http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_10.html

 

Thanks. The drawings section contains some really detailed drawings of the mechanical components. I always find that inspiring.

[Panama Red 22]

Great work and thank you.

[Wrench 9,596]

looking good!