MAKO69 186 Posted November 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYu5S8opA4&feature=related Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted November 17, 2011 What will they do if God forbid they ever get endangered by somebody, perfom HAKA and look at the sky? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derk 265 Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Funny, coincidence. After the NZ Skyhawk clips lately, yesterday I "assembled" a nice A4K from a couple of different Kahu's available for use in the wonderful New Zealand terrains and did some flying with them, including intercepts . And it made me think today, exactly the way Brains does: any idiot in any sort of plane from wherever he may come can do a LOT of damage to New Zealand in 9-11 style. The country lies totally open to that sort of thing. The Australians may be able to help but are hours away........ What will the NZ reaction be to an unidentified radar contact that is not answering radio calls and bores straight in ? EVERY western country needs an interception capability - even if it is an A4K- nowadays with terrorism right around the corner.......... Edited November 18, 2011 by Derk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOSOXRULE2323 0 Posted November 17, 2011 If I were the NZ goverment I would see if I could get a few ex USAF F-16. With the US building a bigger military presence in Australia now would be the best time to do so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Fox 22 Posted November 17, 2011 If we are invaded then we will throw Politicians at them. Plus the RAAF is trains over here with six to twelve F-18's from time to time as well. Something about our weather which they do no get much of back in Australia. James Fox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiBiggles 122 Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) If I were the NZ goverment I would see if I could get a few ex USAF F-16. With the US building a bigger military presence in Australia now would be the best time to do so Just such a deal was generously offered by the US Government prior to the scrapping of the A-4Ks. A squadron (plus spares) of new F-16s were offered at a bargain-bin lease rate (the 'Deal Of The Century' it was called at the time) to the New Zealand government. The aircraft were perfect for our requirements, and even had familiar avionics and weapons fits, thanks to the F-16A derived fit-out of the 'Kahu' programme (A-4K upgrade). They had been manufactured for Pakistan, but never delivered due to a political embargo, and had been in storage ever since. That the deal was turned down was the darkest moment of Helen Clarke's Labour government (which already had a patchy record on Defence despite performing reasonably competently otherwise) and a disgrace to the memory of New Zealand's brave airmen and groundcrew, especially those who lost their lives in '39-'45 and since. In my opinion of course. Even if we were delivered F-16s tomorrow - it would take years to rebuild the capability since most of the personnel involved left to serve in Australia, the UK or elsewhere, or left for civvie street. I just hope we never have to reap what we sowed. A national disgrace in my opinion, and one reason the A-4Ks are such a revered aircraft here - the last ever Kiwi combat aircraft. Regards Kiwi If we are invaded then we will throw Politicians at them. LOL. Great idea James! Edited November 18, 2011 by KiwiBiggles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOSOXRULE2323 0 Posted November 18, 2011 Polticians always get an away of everything, especailly here in the US where for anything to happen it has to go through the house of reps,then senate and finnaly the president, but anyway when the Obama administration comes to an end (which will be soon at least in my oppionion) alot of aid will be cut to foriegn countries to battle the on going debt problem. NOW IS THE TIME TO SHINE FOR NZ IF THEY WANT A LEGIT AIRFORCE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MAKO69 186 Posted November 18, 2011 look at all the new guys talking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MAKO69 186 Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Funny, coincidence. After the NZ Skyhawk clips lately, yesterday I "assembled" a nice A4K from a couple of different Kahu's available for use in the wonderful New Zealand terrains and did some flying with them, including intercepts . And it made me think today, exactly the way Brains does: any idiot in any sort of plane from wherever he may come can do a LOT of damage to New Zealand in 9-11 style. The country lies totally open to that sort of thing. The Australians may be able to help but are hours away........ What will the NZ reaction be to an unidentified radar contact that is not answering radio calls and bores straight in ? EVERY western country needs an interception capability - even if it is an A4K- nowadays with terrorism right arounfd the corner.......... This is true Derk. I'm afraid everynation is a target from Terrorists. FBI most wanted terrorists Hornet fixer painted up an F-18 and an F-16 in the olive drab w/black markings for Wings Over gen 1 series. Edited November 18, 2011 by MAKO69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derk 265 Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Even if we were delivered F-16s tomorrow - it would take years to rebuild the capability since most of the personnel involved left to serve in Australia, the UK or elsewhere, or left for civvie street. An F16 capability of say a 6 plane detachment on North Island and the same for instance near Christchurch or something somewhere in between the two, could be created VERY quickly. Maybe with an US detachment, or leased planes and hired ex F16 pilots & techncians / volunteers, with plenty of A models (even MLU's) available on the market. We've got another 18 or so for sale and my guess would be that at least a couple of experienced pilots and other personnel of the KLu (311 Sq. having been "immobilized") would consider a move to NZ at least an interesting possibility..... Don't know about radar coverage but I assume there is some of that from the civilian side anyway. BUT: first the politicians have to realise that air capability is not an expensive hobby of some warmongers AND peace, freedom and safety DO NOT COME FOR FREE.............. (unlike all the lunches they have ) Edited November 22, 2011 by Derk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezlead 42 Posted November 18, 2011 Ask the Israeli's how those "Scooters" were for defense and intercepts. They worked pretty damn good. No country should leave itself undefensable today. The terrorists don't care who they go after. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted November 21, 2011 Israel has a lot less area to cover than NZ. A lack of AB is fine in Israel as you're never more than a few minutes' flight time away, but NZ has large areas of ocean to cover. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derk 265 Posted November 21, 2011 Depends..... use of AB is not a problem in Israel as you never need it for a long time and there's lots of airbases you can land on... In NZ prolonged use of AB will -relatively- bring you not very far........... Houdoe, Derk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,303 Posted November 21, 2011 For what New Zealand needs a fighter plane? What would be the task for this bird? To defend the contry for an invasion? Who should try to invade it? And to defend a land with only one squadron ... You are joking! For Air Policing? Yes, thats a good reason, but for this job you dont need a Mach 2 fighter bird. Take a british Hawk or a czech L-159 ALCA. They are better suited than the F-16 for this task, not so expensive etc pp. If you need an expensive toy for a few young men and women then NZ could also buy the F-22, the Eurofighter or the Rafale, or you could build a battleship fleet. The last would have the advantage that a more guys can play with it. The one would be so senseless then the other. An Air Force must fit the threat which it has to face. And to be honest, there is no threat for NZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+hgbn 91 Posted November 21, 2011 Well history have shown countless of times. If you are not having at least a deterrent force of some sort you're going to be attacked. Its just a matter of time. So is the money saved worth the risk?? Especially in these times where no one is safe from terrorist attacks. they simply pick the easiest target available for maximum effect. it only takes one airliner to do the job. Yes you can shoot it down with a SAM. But you will need a close up confirmation to check if it isn't just mechanical trouble before doing so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted November 22, 2011 I don't know if a Hawk could catch an airliner. As it was, they sent F-15s after the ones in the NE on 9/11 and they didn't get there in time to prevent them hitting the towers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiBiggles 122 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) There was more to the RNZAF's air combat wing (it was more like a squadron and a half) than just defensive counter-air. Just one of the capablities lost was the ability for the NZSAS to train in the terminal guidance role, previously an important task for them, designating for the A-4K's laser guided bombs. The combat wing also contributed to counter-air training for both the Australian and New Zealand navies. Another important capability was the maritime strike role, prosecuting targets for RNZAF Orions. A role I'm sure the leaders of the NZ Defence forces would have considered very important was coalition operations with New Zealand's allies in the Asia-Pacific region, particularly Australia, and while the A-4s were getting a bit long in the tooth for real world operations, and some of our alliances had been shaky since the break-up of ANZUS (over US nuclear ship visits) they were better than nothing. Since we're really talking joint exercises (and not a shooting war thank goodness) the A-4s still had a role to play, and the F-16s would have been able to make a genuine operational contribution had it ever been necesary. It was a case of being a responsible international citizen and pulling our weight, something that's important to our allies, and not something we have a great record at - with a per-capita defence budget significantly less than many of our allies. For mine though, the most important aspect is that even the A-4Ks maintained a level of air combat capability and a cadre of skilled air and ground crew that would have been available for expansion if the strategic situation was ever to deteriorate. That is lost now, probably forever. And the F-16 deal was such a good bargain that even Hawks would have been more expensive I'm sure... so it really was an opportunity lost. Don't worry though, I downloaded the RNZAF Tigershark from Combat Ace just the other day, and very nice it is too. If hostile planes ever appear in our skies I shall go outside in my backyard and shout 'bang' VERY crossly. Cheers all Kiwi Edited November 23, 2011 by KiwiBiggles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derk 265 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Don't worry though, I downloaded the RNZAF Tigershark from Combat Ace just the other day, and very nice it is too. If hostile planes ever appear in our skies I shall go outside in my backyard and shout 'bang' VERY crossly. Cheers all Kiwi Ha, ha, same here, downloaded the Kiwi F16 and still tweaking the A4K and having great times over the beautiful NZ terrains...... Edited November 23, 2011 by Derk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiBiggles 122 Posted November 25, 2011 Ha, ha, same here, downloaded the Kiwi F16 and still tweaking the A4K and having great times over the beautiful NZ terrains...... Cool! Just this minute found the Kiwi F-16 upload by dtmdragon - so I'm very happy about that. Been a noob I didn't imagine there was a New Zealand terrain but I see Baltika has released a beta terrain. So now I'm a doubly happy chappy! Cheers KB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroFilth 3 Posted November 30, 2011 Since our Brazilian Naval Air Force is using A-4 Skyhawks, would be nice to have those guys too. We bought a bunch of Kuwaitian A-4's, why not a bunch of A-4K's from New Zealand modernised into AF-1 Falcons as they area called in here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
