Flying the Phantom

[Hellfire257 1]

Hi all,

 

I've just completed the 6 day way campaign in SF2:I and I've now started the Yom Kippur campaign. However I'm finding flying and fighting the Phantom post merge against more agile opponents difficult. I'm a LOMAC+Il2 vet so I know a bit about energy management and I'm guessing that is the important area to consider when flying the heavy F4. Can anyone offer any tips for me?

 

Thanks!

[crl848 9]

Try here, a post by a former F4 driver.

 

http://combatace.com/topic/27934-phantom-tactics-some-thoughts/

[+Dave 2,322]

You have a speed advantage over all the Mig's, so extend and engage on your terms. Boom and zoom.

 

If you find yourself in close with a Mig-17 then a high yo-yo works very well. This is where your speed advantage can be used. Pull up high then ptich turn toward the ground. This gives you a speed advantage again where you can hit you corner speed, drop yourself on the defenders tail and go for the shot. This is where a gun comes in handy.

 

 

Also a lag roll will get you some distance from the defender at the end of the manuever giving you the abiltiy to go for a missile shot.

 

Just some ideas.

[Hellfire257 1]

Awesome!

 

Thanks guys! :)

[MAKO69 186]

The Phantom is good times. The following is what I have found works for me when flying the Phantom in this sim/game. The conventional flaps will not work above 250kts, but the speed brake on the Phantom can be used at any speed and while it will slow the plane (you can add power) I can use it as a "Combat Phlap". I found I can turn a little better at higher speeds. Also use your rudder to help roll the plane its wierd, its a Phantom thing, watch your speed dont drop below 350 or 400 kts in a dog fight use the massive twin J-79 engines thrust to your advantage. Go verticle up or down dogfighting tactics try not to go horizontal with anything other than a woman. Don't get in a turning war w/a Mig or similar plane they will win 4 out of 5 times with enemy & flight model on hard. Keep your altitude when dog fighting, you need the safety of at least 2500 to 3000 ft incase you have to unload your plane and head for Motha Earth to get your air speed back. If you find yourself in a turning war hit the burners and run out get your speed back then come back into the fight, and send an AIM-7 via air mail down his throat. If you have the flight model on hard this plane and most of the older jets don't like you whiping the ponnies to much. Give the control surfaces time to do their work especially at slower speeds. If you wack the stick all over the place giving to much input it will be counter productive and you may cancel out what you want the plane to do, planes weren't fly by wire yet. On board flight computers take this into consideration now and take the stupid out of the pilots. 1 more note if you get out of control and find yourself in departed flight in a spin of some type 1)dump all droppable loads 2) full flaps 3) give full lock rudder oppisite of spin, push forward on the stick and full burners,kind of like steering into a skid in a car. If you don't ketch it quick enough before the 3rd or so revolution its to late. You need atleast 2500-3000 feet to pull this off other wise leave the aircraft, and check your main.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MAKO69

[ezlead 42]

Using rudder to help roll rate is not "weird" or a Phantom thing. Using rudder to increase roll rate has been around for many years. The newer the fighter the more the rudder or rudders(vertical stabilizers) are designed to increase roll rate. On the newest fighters,the horizontal stabilizers and even the engine nozzles move differently to help increase roll rate.

[macelena 1,070]

It is weird for you to say so after the 6 day war, i allways found the Phantom easier to maneuver than the Mirage 3

 

Just read the old topic, such a tiny boy i was then lol

[MAKO69 186]

Using rudder to help roll rate is not "weird" or a Phantom thing. Using rudder to increase roll rate has been around for many years. The newer the fighter the more the rudder or rudders(vertical stabilizers) are designed to increase roll rate. On the newest fighters,the horizontal stabilizers and even the engine nozzles move differently to help increase roll rate.

 

 

True the rudder helps, however; I found that out of all the planes that I have spent many hours with in the WO/SF2 series the rudder seems to help a lot more in the phantom than other platforms, especially at higher speeds.

Edited January 20, 2012 by MAKO69

[future_tuskegee_airman 13]

As previous posters have said, always keep your fight in the vertical. I'm currently flying a F-4G Phantom II with VF-213 in SF2V with the expansion pack. As a serious student of the greatest men to mount heavyweight aircraft, their number 1 rule was: Speed is life. I've used zoom tactics and a high yo-yo to cut inside MiG-17s turns, then popped a 'winder off to finish the kill. (No gun on the Navy Phantoms). I would suggest watching the History Cahnnel's Dogfights for some tactics to use in combat. I've taken notes and implemented them in the sim and WOW what a difference!

[Stingray72 6]

The rudder thing is a Phanton thing, and an F-100 thing. It was an adverse yaw thing, and the Phantom had similar issues as the F-100 in this regard. Every book I have read that a pilot talks about flying the Rhino has in there at some point that you use the rudder to roll this aircraft, not the ailerons. The best explanation of this is in Palace Cobra, Ed Rasimus wrote it about his second tour to Vietnam. He goes into great detail about adverse yaw and the Phantom.

 

MOG_Gunfighter

[Fubar512 1,350]

The rudder thing is a Phanton thing, and an F-100 thing. It was an adverse yaw thing, and the Phantom had similar issues as the F-100 in this regard. Every book I have read that a pilot talks about flying the Rhino has in there at some point that you use the rudder to roll this aircraft, not the ailerons. The best explanation of this is in Palace Cobra, Ed Rasimus wrote it about his second tour to Vietnam. He goes into great detail about adverse yaw and the Phantom.

 

MOG_Gunfighter

 

[MAKO69 186]

The rudder thing is a Phanton thing, and an F-100 thing. It was an adverse yaw thing, and the Phantom had similar issues as the F-100 in this regard. Every book I have read that a pilot talks about flying the Rhino has in there at some point that you use the rudder to roll this aircraft, not the ailerons. The best explanation of this is in Palace Cobra, Ed Rasimus wrote it about his second tour to Vietnam. He goes into great detail about adverse yaw and the Phantom.

 

MOG_Gunfighter

 

 

The rudder on F-100s were enlarged on later production models

[turkeydriver 4]

While you can muscle your F-4 in the WVR arena and win a fight, its just not advisable. You'll have the occassions where the enemy loses sight and its an easy one turn kill, but the norm will be one turn with your hi yo-yo to put you behind his 3-9 line then 2-3 more turns to get down on his six, then try to capitalize and anticipte his manever to give your sidewinder a good chance of hitting.

Best tactic with the mighty F-4 is always to take your shots on the way in with an AIM-7 if hes nose or tail on, then extend out a few miles and slowly turn back in. Keep your speed way up, but dont do more than 3 turns with the guy or your gas will be gone too soon to make an escape. Also, if you get in a spin, NO FLAPS. your jet isn't responding like an airplane when its in a spin and the flaps will not be an item that keeps you slow and adds lift while youre in a spin. They might help to put you on your back and make it unrecoverable IRL. just throttle to idle, center stick with slight forward pressure, and opposite rudder until your spin stops-then add the throttle and smoothly pull up-a quick snap will put you right back in the spin.

If you do decide to dogfight in the F-4-make sure you have a gun and good dogfight missiles(so SF2 Israel is a good choice for this-the AIM-9G and on are pretty good). If you want to learn how the fly the Phantom like a king, start with a navy F-4B in 1968 and try to manage your energy while the MiG-17s dance on slightest updraft. Your Israeli F-4 should have full maneuvering slats to aid you, but you still bleed energy like a cut artery if you make a tight turn at 400kts.

 

Good luck and KILL MIGS

[+Dave 2,322]

Pretty much sums it up there. Between ezlead and turkeydriver you can't get much closer than having to fly an actual F-4 yourself.

[exhausted 55]

You sure won't get many kills per mission using my method, but a brilliant leader named Robin Olds once directed successful Phantom pilots to keep their speed up over 400 indicated at all times during a fight so they could separate quickly if needed. If you fly right then you may get your chance at a Sidewinder shot from the rear.

There should never be a need to carry a cannon pod, since realistically they had speed limitations on when they could be fired (read slow).

 

I hate to bore you with a long, drawn out video, but this one shows what I mean on keeping your 'E' up and earning the chance kill:

 

Check at 6:45 for a lead in to the kill, including some failed sidewinder action

 

Edited January 20, 2012 by exhausted

[+daddyairplanes 10,235]

thing i read on the isrealis (Phantom Aces of the IDFAF) was that they were more focused on mission accomplishment than kills, esp in the 73 and 82 rounds. while they still racked up many kills they used speed, countermeasures and tatics to bomb the target first, then tangle with the Migs. Since i prefer air to mud, i tend to keep this in mind. if the bandit is in front of me and i have a good tone i take a shot. otherwise i'm low and fast and with exception to maybe a Flogger they won't catchup. if AAA and SAms aren't too bad after i drop the bombs i might play in the vertical, but most of the time i take it on home.

[MAKO69 186]

The following is what I have found works for me when flying the Phantom in this sim/game.

 

 

My thoughts, and I have tried with and w/out flaps and many throttle settings seems to be about the same. Flight model on hard, it is a sim/game.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MAKO69