How to stop planes from ridiculous pulling up at take off?

[Kodiak]

I just installed Bunyaps Seahawk's and when the AI takes off they pull up so ridiculously steep that they stall and crash a little further from the airfield! :(

Is there something I can do about that? I can fix anything in the data files of airplanes but the FM is something I never edited before.

There must be some way to change them so they don't try to go vertical after they got their wheels of the runway.

I am the only member of my flight that survives take off and the rest all die during take off, pulling up very sharp!

Anybody here knows a cure for that?

All help is greatly appreciated.

I have a full merged install of SF2, and Windows 7.

A big thanks in advance.

 

My best regards, Kodiak.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Kodiak

[Wrench]

are you using the latest versions that Paulo released in 2010? Baffmeister (re)did some FM work. Still needs some tweeking, says so in Baff's readme.

 

You can always try adding this to the data ini:

 

[AIData]

TakeOffRotationAngle=20.0

AileronDeltaRoll=1.2

AileronRollRate=-1.0

ElevatorDeltaPitch=1.0

ElevatorPitchRate=-0.1

ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.05

ThrottleVelocity=-0.01

DeltaSpeedForAfterburner=

DeltaSpeedForAirbrakes=-50

MaxPitchForAltitude=30.0

MinPitchForAltitude=-20.0

PitchForThrottle=0.005

PitchForAltitude=0.001

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.001

RollForHeading=15.0

RollForHeadingRate=-0.5

MinRollHeading=15.0

MaxRollForHeading=65.0

PitchForRoll=0.23

FormationSpeedForPosition=0.8

FormationSpeedForRate=0.5

 

worked (well, reduced at least) on the Corsairs and Thunderbolts...

[+baffmeister]

The Seahawk FM I did climbs quite steeply as well. Knowing now what I didn't know then, which still isn't much, I see some things in the FM that could be improved. Trying to get the AI to do a nice take off and climb out is one of the most frustrating things about this game. That and the terrain editor.

[Wrench]

and the terrain editor

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmen, brother!

[column5]

Been a while sine I thought about flight models, but you might want to check the Xac tables for the horizontal stabs:

 

XacMachTableNumData=7

XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40

XacMachTableStartX=0.00

XacMachTableData=-7.160,-7.168,-7.188,-7.599,-7.766,-7.866,-7.955

 

(The above is just for illustration, those values won't work for the Seahawk)

 

If the Xac is being placed too far back, it could be greatly amplifying the pitching moment of the elevators, leading to calamity.

[Wilches]

Wich line on AI Data controls the take-off pitch angle and how? For a Me 163B Komet wich´s the properly pitch?

[+baffmeister]

Thanks C5. I will check that and a few other things soon. I may upload a quick beta tester on this thread if things work out.

Wilches, it can be difficult adjusting take off behavior using AI entries. Some entries are only used used after the aircraft has passed certain way points. As an example, this entry MaxPitchForAltitude=xxx doesn't seem to do anything during the take off and initial climb but starts being used as the aircraft gets further from the take off point. [not sure at what point though.] Likewise, and more obvious, the entry LandingPitchForSpeed=xxx doesnt come into play until the aircraft crosses waypoint 8. All I can suggest is to start with a fresh AI table in the aircraft data ini and commence the experiments.

[+SkateZilla]

TBH both the Take off and landing precedures of the AI are wonked..

[+baffmeister]

TBH both the Take off and landing precedures of the AI are wonked..

 

Have to agree to some extent but I have had more success addressing landing issues compared to take off issues.

 

Regarding the Seahawk, after doing a quick review of the data.ini I suspect some of my adjustments were just covering up for some other issues from the original FM. I think too much lift and an unrealistic stalling angle are probably contributing to the high departure angle on take off. Having said that, if I edit the data.ini to what I think is reasonable, it will probably mess up the aircraft carrier landings so I could get into a circular problem very quickly. If I were doing this FM from scratch I would probably just plug in ThirdWires Meteor data.ini and work from there. For now I think I will work with the existing ini and see what can be done. I have made some quick edits and the behavior is much improved. Interestingly, when I reduced the overall lift I was able to remove some of my previous edits that were compensating for same. Anyway, I may have learned a few things in the last couple of years so will see if a quick fix is possible. Cheers.

[+baffmeister]

I don't see a quick fix happening for this bird. After making some adjustments I am seeing other issues cropping up with no easy solution in site. Will try the Meteor transplant at some point in the future and see what I can do.

[Fubar512]

All aircraft (TW and 3rd party) are effected to some extent or another. It's global, and I'm of the opinion that this behaviour is there by intent.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Fubar512

[+baffmeister]

Never thought of it as intended but maybe TK thinks some over performance on take off is required to insure all the aircraft get airborne safely? If that's the case finding a fix may be a bit tricky.

[Fubar512]

Never thought of it as intended but maybe TK thinks some over performance on take off is required to insure all the aircraft get airborne safely? If that's the case finding a fix may be a bit tricky.

 

I belive that he did so due to the impending release of the next title. I first noticed the behavior while working on Marcelo's Sea Flanker.