How signficant are P4's FM and DM changes?

[Bullethead 12]

Really Gents, it all goes back to the basics here. OFF is modelled to give you quite a realistic WWI air combat experience, which means it is deadly. Welcome to the 20 Minuters.

 

I agree with Lou. I myself had had OFF since it came out and have never used any of the mods because I think the existing game is perfectly good as-is. No disrepect to the modders, it's just a matter of personal taste. The workshop options cover everything I've ever thought needed tweaking--modders see a need for additional tweaks.

 

As Lou says, survival in OFF is all about flying smart. Do all in your power to fight only on terms favorable to you, always maneuver so that you achieve and maintain an energy superiority over the enemy, and always be ready to disengage the moment before it looks like the tactical situation or the energy balance will turn against you. Do these things requires that you hone your situational awareness skills, not just to where the enemy planes are, but everybody's relative energy state, and all other aspects of the situation. If you develop good SA, become skilled at energy management, and learn when to fight and when to run away, you'll well on your way to success, regardless of whether you use mods or not. If you don't have these things, then you're going to die a lot, mods or no mods, unless you go godmode in the workshop settings.

[Baldric 42]

I want to support Lou's suggestion about the use of tactics in OFF. The sim models the tactical very nicely and you'll likely find that by using the WWI flying combat tactics you've read about, and practicing them of course, you'll gain success. I've realised as I came back to OFF that I had to unlearn a few things such as not having to worry about surgical strike head shots from 400+ metres away so if I play it smart I can get in close; "spray and pray" is more of a waste in OFF; rear gunners don't shoot through the bottoms of their fuselage nor through their tail assembly so I could go back to hunting them from their sixlow;... what else...oh, Dicta Boelcke ftw so altitude altitude altitude-- and really don't get sucked in to following the enemy down to the deck; ...clouds of triple A mean something; ...and attack only when confident your plan of action will succeed otherwise get the heck out of Dodge (and watch for ambushes all the time)...welcome to whiteknuckle flying at it's most exhilarating.

[carrick58 23]

Flying Smart ? Now they tell me!

[redpiano 6]

Yes yes I've already gone through the how to properly win in ww1 combat routine. I'm well aware of how to engage two seaters and scouts etc. I always fight from above and chase two seaters from below etc.

 

I'm just confused as to why every time I get shot it's an instant hit to my ailerons and/or engine, it makes little sense. The damage mod is supposed to make it so you can take damage in not important areas and still fight on and maneuver, but the AI never hits anywhere but my ailerons and engine.

Edited February 21, 2012 by redpiano

[+Polovski 460]

Turn on the hit messages you may see more things being hit, but as the guys say the idea is not to get hit. It may be worth playing with slider settings and other craft to see if your experiences change.

[redpiano 6]

I turned the messages back on and no, it's one hit and it always damages my controls. Going against a hannover I let him shoot at me some, boom left wing structure hit, roll rate gone.

[redpiano 6]

I've been testing it some more and it's basically just that whenever the wings get shot it's instant aileron damage. Engine damage and such doesn't happen as commonly, but one shot to damage ailerons is crazy.

[Olham 164]

I think I have read some time ago, that they would make more hit-boxes for P4 planes?

Or was it that the hit boxes would be made smaller?

Something like that, which should result in more variety.

[Bullethead 12]

I've been testing it some more and it's basically just that whenever the wings get shot it's instant aileron damage. Engine damage and such doesn't happen as commonly, but one shot to damage ailerons is crazy.

 

I don't have this problem. I don't use mods and in the workshop, my gun power is set at normal. If you're using a DM mod and/or have your gun power set higher, then your results will differ.

[Buddy1998 2]

Thanks for the good advise on how to plan during a dogfight.

 

I play this sim in a different way - I use quick combat for the dogfights and for total immersion I avoid dogfights in campaign. What I mean is that in campaign mode I try to play as if I was flying "for real" and avoid dogfights unless I can either finish an enemy off or get in a couple of shots before running away so that I can get home in one piece. Flak and ground fire scare me, so I fly above the clouds most of the missions. If I had been enlisted during WW1, I would have probably chosen to be a plane mechanic and not a pilot.

 

The past few days I was working on trying to tune the graphics to my liking and I think that I've found the perfect fit for me. I searched these forums as well as other forums for old posts and found:

 

1. CFS3config.exe utility adjustment according to http://www.regshanger.com/Groundcrew/homepage/Garage/2048%20textures/Ground%20Crew%20Design%20CFS3%202048x2048%20settings.php

2. nVidia Inspector settings according to http://www.simforums.com/forums/nhancer-settings-for-new-drivers-updated-v1932_topic36586.html - adjusted "Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling to 4x Sparce Grid, Ambient Occlusion on and enabled and Triple buffering on. With these settings, I tried with and without ENBseries and I couldn't find any difference in graphics quality, but a huge 10FPS hit in performance, so I removed ENB for now.

3. Image quality sliders set at 5-4-3-5-5 (gets a constant 51 to 57 FPS).

4. CFS3.xml "maxFPS" from 0 to 55 - to reduce stuttering.

 

Sorry, if I went off topic, but I was very excited when I finally achieved these results and wanted to share them.

[redpiano 6]

I don't have this problem. I don't use mods and in the workshop, my gun power is set at normal. If you're using a DM mod and/or have your gun power set higher, then your results will differ.

 

My guns are on normal and with or without mods it happens. I mean that's the purpose of the DM mod is to make that not happen.

[Buddy1998 2]

Did you try uninstalling / reinstalling OFF and then flying without the mods?

 

 

[redpiano 6]

I actually did that yesterday because of an error and I've played without mods when I first installed and it was no different, that's why I installed the mod to begin with.

[Creaghorn 10]

did you set both the front and rearguns to less accurate?

[Buddy1998 2]

redpiano, if you have the interest to do a silly experiment, I'd try to fly my plane through ground fire with messages "turned on", pause and note the damages to the plane, then rinse and repeat a couple of more times. Also, do the same with DM mod uninstalled to see if there is any difference. Not a scientific way, but could be interesting.

[redpiano 6]

What I've been doing is doing a quick mission against a Hannover's rear gunner, I've tried flying ahead of him and letting him hit me, behind him directly, to his 5 'o clock high etc. Mods on mods off, one hit to the wings and it's instant loss of roll rate. One hit to the engine doesn't seem too bad, not like ROF where you're almost instantly screwed but yeah.

 

And yes rear and front guns on less accurate, I even installed HPW's less accurate rear gunners and still, one hit to the wings, instant loss of roll.

 

I take it this is just how it is and there's nothing that can be done for it so it's alright, I just like bothering you guys with tons of loaded questions ;)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Just remember RP, loaded questions, like loaded guns, have been known to backfire on occasion.

 

But to your issue, it seems odd, and I have not had the same problem. Each kite in OFF tends to react differently to different types of damage. I've gotten hit by the magic bullet many times of course, but more often than not if I do get hit it does nothing more than show a few bullet holes in the wing cloth or tail feathers. Roll rate is not diminished in these instances. Over the many missions flown I've experienced engine failure, loss of fuel and/or oil, damage to any and all controls to varying degrees, and total airframe collapse. I've actually been rather impressed by the diversity of damage modelled into this sim. So I am puzzled by what you are encountering.

 

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[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Buddy, I missed your post about getting your flying system dialed in and running with sliders way up at the top end. That is a great feeling indeed Sir. Enjoy!

 

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[+Winder 32]

 

How signficant are P4's FM and DM changes?

 

 

The changes to 'P4' are extensive and all emcompassing - thats why its now 'OFF2' and not 'Phase 4'

 

WM

[Olham 164]

The changes to 'P4' are extensive and all emcompassing - thats why its now 'OFF2' and not 'Phase 4'

 

WM

Damn! I have been waiting for something that will never be released! Okay- from now on I'll wait for OFF2.

 

Seriously now: sounds like great news, Winder!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Red--

 

I am honestly puzzled by the problems you are encountering. I don't know of anyone else who has installed my DM who has not noticed a significant difference in damage effects--especially to the wings and ailerons. In fact, one of the main purposes behind my Ultimate damage mod was to significantly lower the chances of the AI hitting your aileron cables. If you look inside the .xdp file for the plane you are flying (I think you said you fly the Se5a Viper), you should notice that the probability of a hit to an aileron cable has been reduced from 100% in the stock DM to just 1% in my DM. Granted, the AI still seems to hit control cables more than they should, but my DM is supposed to lower it dramatically, and I can't go lower than 1%!

 

Also, please note that I have dramatically increased the hit points to ALL aircraft components in my DM. For example, in the Se5a, engine hit points have gone from around 112 points to almost 800, and aileron hit points from 92 to around 368--a fourfold increase. Again, try looking in the .xdp file for the Se5a to see if you have installed the DM correctly. You might also try uninstalling my DM and try flying with the stock DM for several days instead of just a few test flights in order to get a better feel for the differences in DM's.

 

One last suggestion: in Workshop, check your bullet strength settings to make sure it is set to normal instead of strong. Also check that your flight model is set to realistic.

 

Finally, I just remembered something you said in a previous post that leads me to believe that you have not bought the Hat in the Ring Expansion for OFF3. The Ultimate Damage Model is only meant to be used with the Hat in the Ring Expansion. I can't gurantee that it will work appropriately if you don't install HitR. You should get HitR anyway because of all the extra goodies and options that are in it.

[redpiano 6]

Well that might explain it then Wasche.

 

Also when trying to open the .xdp files Adobe reader claims they're corrupt so that may be the issue if not the lack of hitr.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

You can open the .xdp files with any text reader, such as Notepad or Wordpad. I'm not sure that Adobe reader will work with them.

 

Personally, I use a shareware text reader called Textpad, which I highly recommend.

[redpiano 6]

Okay yeah, it says probability 1 points 14.

 

I guess it must be that I didn't buy hat in the ring then.

[+Winder 32]

Okay yeah, it says probability 1 points 14.

 

I guess it must be that I didn't buy hat in the ring then.

 

HITR culminates in a lot of improvements not only adding in the Yank squadrons.

 

HTH

 

WM